Every time I see a site discussion about E85 or even E15 fuel and read through the details, it talks me out of farting with it. It would be interesting to know if there real benefits other than hopeful butt dyno ones.
In reply to David Elfering :
Then there is the matter of enforcement.
How often do you see engines torn down at any event? How often do you see fuel sampled? Do they even have the ability to determine what's in the fuel? It's not just alcohol that can give an edge.
Maybe because Vintage racing is gentlemen ( and a few ladies) racing each other. There is no prize money or really any advantage to cheating. In fact In 40 plus years I've never seen anybody tear down an engine or sample fuel.
I've built small block Chevy engines up to 430 cu in. With parts straight off NASCAR and WoO shelves. I've also successfully raced ( and won) with a Target master engine straight out of the crate.
It's a rare entrant who doesn't have at least something of dubious legality. The only question is will that person get caught and lose that $15 plastic cup.
As far as advantage of E85? You don't read Hot Rod or watch U tube do you? Or even read the articles in GRM ?
David Elfering said:
Every time I see a site discussion about E85 or even E15 fuel and read through the details, it talks me out of farting with it. It would be interesting to know if there real benefits other than hopeful butt dyno ones.
It's super simple. Most cars for E85, you literally just put in the GM fuel sensor, the rear O2 plug monitors for E content and tune.
For a BRZ, you can call COunterspace Garage and get a full tune and kit for around $1300 IIRC.
I just used the OFT since I used it on my previous NC. It's a little more involved, but still not difficult for the quick 15-20whp pickup with no other mods.
In reply to David Elfering :
If you are looking for some actual hard data using E85, we were able to squeeze abut 20 extra wheel horsepower in our C5 Corvette project car–which you can read more about here: E85 Ethanol Fuel: How to Corn Your Way to More Horsepower
For additional information, here are some articles discussing E85 with our good friends at Sunoco:
kb58
SuperDork
8/9/22 12:52 p.m.
z31maniac said:
David Elfering said:
Every time I see a site discussion about E85 or even E15 fuel and read through the details, it talks me out of farting with it. It would be interesting to know if there real benefits other than hopeful butt dyno ones.
It's super simple. Most cars for E85, you literally just put in the GM fuel sensor, the rear O2 plug monitors for E content and tune.
For a BRZ, you can call COunterspace Garage and get a full tune and kit for around $1300 IIRC.
I just used the OFT since I used it on my previous NC. It's a little more involved, but still not difficult for the quick 15-20whp pickup with no other mods.
Sometimes for fun, I'll tease people I see putting E85 into their Subaru, BRZ, or whatever, knowing they have no OEM support for it. I start off with "I didn't know that those could take E85", and see what they say.
Back on-topic, it's depends upon how the ECU responds to the higher octane or ethanol. While the engine can generate more power, whether it does or not completely depends up - reasons. My understanding is that modern direct injection engines use the knock sensor way more than previously, basically dialing in timing until it knocks, then backing off a bit. As for which cars do so and which don't, I don't know.
My Cayman has been out west a few times. The difference between 91 and 93 is palpable. It breathes a sigh of relief when I hit Memphis and get a tank of 93.
It is the same if I am driving it in August heat vs November cool.
My Golf pops more, happily, on 93 vice 91.
The Cayman is like a well worn leather glove for me. If we were on that old newlywed game show we'd crush all the answers.
The energy density of ethanol is approximately 2/3 that of an equal amount of gasoline.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Energy_density
The reasons for using ethanol derived from corn are misguided and purely political.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/gas-prices-ethanol-subsidies-putin/627053/
And ethanol's use as a motor fuel endangers populations that already have difficulty with malnutrition.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/food-and-farms/biofuels-are-accelerating-the-food-crisis-and-the-climate-crisis-too
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
You ought to know not to try to confuse anyone with facts!
"They" said ethanol is than horrible world killing distilled dinosaur will make everything better.
Opti
Dork
8/9/22 3:56 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:
The energy density of ethanol is approximately 2/3 that of an equal amount of gasoline.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Energy_density
The reasons for using ethanol derived from corn are misguided and purely political.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/gas-prices-ethanol-subsidies-putin/627053/
And ethanol's use as a motor fuel endangers populations that already have difficulty with malnutrition.
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/food-and-farms/biofuels-are-accelerating-the-food-crisis-and-the-climate-crisis-too
Energy density is lower, but you use more E85 and the octane rating is much higher, and when tuned for it e85 almost always makes more power.
My stock ND ran on e85. The difference between an aftermarket 93 tune to an e85 tune was a larger jump in power than the difference between the stock tune and a 93 tune.
6gen camaro guys are picking up 20-30 whp only going e85.
E85 may be terrible politically and environmentally, I won't argue that with you, but if it's available at your local pump it's the best dang gas for fun. It's like race gas you can actually find and cheap enough to run it all the time.
