Fair market value for Jaguar junk.

Stampie said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Tell you what. I'll totally believe you and stand behind your efforts if you can tell us the rules on how to make your homebuilt fiberglass XKE Challenge legal as a production car. 

What was the car last year. That used a Ford chassis and a fiberglass body ?  

In reply to Stampie :

Since Frenchy has already said he'll probably enter the car as an unlimited budget, it's probably not necessary to argue about details. Sounds like this is a couple years in the process. 
 

I think it's better to help define the ways the car COULD be entered than pointing out flaws and arguing about why it can't. 

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Is this what you are calling a serious offer from Robbie?

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:  ... To me, $300 for that pile is such a good deal (so much less than fair market value) I would be willing to drive 12 hours round trip to go get it. I would not be interested in buying it at fair market value.

I don't think that puts the FMV at $300.

Don't worry, others have already convinced me to go the undocumented route. 
 Frankly I'm a builder not an accountant 

In reply to frenchyd :

The rules say if production frame rails are used it is legal. The car was a shortened P71 chassis (if I remember correctly). 
 

A full tube frame would be an exception. 

SV reX said:

In reply to Stampie :

Since Frenchy has already said he'll probably enter the car as an unlimited budget, it's probably not necessary to argue about details. Sounds like this is a couple years in the process. 
 

I think it's better to help define the ways the car COULD be entered than pointing out flaws and arguing about why it can't. 

Thank you. That is the spirit or intent of the challenge anyway. I'm sure some time in the past a few doctored, phony  receipts have been used  or something unaccounted for has slipped past. 
      Most are builders not accountants. 
  I am not concerned about awards or trophies nor do they really matter to others.

 I'll bet some of the really great ones  were in complete compliance which makes their participation all the greater. 

nocones said:

If you want to build a XKE out of Junk you have on hand do that.  It's an interesting story and will be an interesting project car.  

If you want to build an XKE for a legit bring it to Florida challenge car, get some of those parts cars you claim to know about and get Reciepts.  

FMV does not work by us telling you what stuff is worth by what we would pay today.  $300 may be all Robbie is willing to pay but that doesn't mean that's what it's worth, it's just what it's worth to him.  FMV is not a tool to reduce the value of parts you already own.  It's the reason people get legit reciepts for Great deals and parts and cash have to legit change hands.      

But really how hard would it be to doctor a recept? Who doesn't know the acetone trick?  So have bogus or doctored receipts been used in the past?  
  Don't get too hung up on rules.  This is supposed to be about fun.   So what if  something  actually cost $300 more than reported.  Or someone was $70 over?   Whoever may have  done that was still in the spirit. 
     Trying to act like Judge and Jury will give you ulcers.  Relax. 
   But buying another car when I'm trying to get rid of saved junk  only to get a receipt? It just doesn't seem very smart. 
     

frenchyd said:

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Part of the reason for building a Jaguar XKE is to use up the stuff in the shop so my heirs don't have toss it in the dumpster. 
I've still got rolls and rolls of fiberglass. 

If the rear suspension you have will fit an XKE, I will buy just that assembly, for $350.  I will be there next Saturday to pick it up.  I'd love to put one under the back of my LS swapped TR4.

So, you FMV of the total pile is more than $300.  Much more $$.

Keith Tanner said:

"built out of the stuff I had in my garage" has a value all its own. Maybe that's the challenge, to do it with buying as little as possible.

Excellent. We agree. I could assign the value  of $0 or $300  or anything since it will be undocumented.  
     It's not like I get to spend unlimited money on go fast parts.   I'm self handicapping my efforts by trying to duplicate a 61 year old car.   Wire wheels alone will be a challenge. ( I know where a set is, a Jaguar guy de-resto modded one ).   Plus it's a Jaguar.  How many sets of tailites for those do you think are sitting around in junkyards? 
    It sure won't be as fast as guys who start with engines that aren't 51 years old and weigh 800 pounds. I hope others can appreciate what I'm trying to do and not get all wound up in quoting their thoughts on rules.  

In reply to frenchyd :

If you want to use it all for a challenge build, do it.  Find your receipt for the car you paid $300 for and use it under that rule.  NOT the FMV rule.

yupididit said:

I'm just saying I bought a running v12 XJS for something around $400. And flipped it for much more. The buyer only wanted the drivetrain. Prices on these things are a guess at best. In Texas they're basically worthless but in Cali might be worth a few grand. 

With that said, I'd buy this junk for $300 and throw it on eBay or something and make a grand or so. 

 Absolutely.  But actually with California's tough rules on cars that have left the license expire parts cars tend to be cheaper there. Here unrunning complicated cars just seem like too expensive a project to have much value. 
  Then there are leftover cars the heirs just  want gone so they can sell the house. Maybe they dislike the car because daddy spent time on it rather than them.   It gets complicated. 

Indy - Guy said:

In reply to frenchyd :

If you want to use it all for a challenge build, do it.  Find your receipt for the car you paid $300 for and use it under that rule.  NOT the FMV rule.

 I never bought any car that I'll use for this. It's just left over parts I didn't throw away.  No value , no receipt. 
 So it will go the undocumented route. 
 
With regard the rear end.   it's not complete. It's left over bits that I can assemble into a rear end.  The needle bearings are gone because like all of them, due to the short arc the suspension moves basically one or two needle bearings take The whole load of the rear end  even with regular greasing  they flatten out and grind the race they ride on making the rear end sloppy. ( not to mention make reassembly a nightmare ) so I eliminate them completely. Just make an aluminum bushing to replace all that.     For the street make the bushing out of brass. 

 However for a Triumph use that Lexus center section.  There is a kit that fits it right in.  Sized better than the XKE plus you don't need bigger 72 spoke wheels with the word Jaguar on the knock offs. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I need a complete assembly, not just the center section.  It's a solid axle car.  TR4, not TR4A.

In reply to frenchyd :

This is listed today in Chicago on the list of Craigs:

In reply to Indy - Guy :

The reason they are bought for hot rods is because the XKE is narrow enough to look good.  The sedan needs major work to look decent.  But they don't check that before buying. Knowledge is power. 
       The problem with the XKE is so many have splined hubs and hot rods want mag wheels not wire wheels.  So I suppose you could buy a sedan ( XJS also) rear end and an XKE rear end take off the splines and put on the bolt on hubs.   They are even a Chevy bolt pattern.  
 As for your Triumph are you prepared to cut your frame apart?  
     You either need to use the Jaguar cage  to mount it or put all those load spots on your Triumph.   That is a major undertaking.  Plus I'm not sure the triumph is wide enough.  The track on a XKE is 50". What is the triumph track?  
    Plus the springs and shocks for a Jaguar are a lot stiffer than a Triumph. Probably 1000 pounds or so. I think the XKE comes in at around 3600 pounds.   
  Your wire wheels are Rudge 48. Jaguar uses Rudge 54.  So the wheels will be different. Noticeably different.  The knock offs are different. 
     

In reply to frenchyd :

The TR4 has a 50" track width too.  That's why I want your assembly.  Yes, frame is already cut up and I'm prepared to cut more.

I'm willing to buy it at $350.  Are you available next Saturday?

My observation of the FMV process. 
      Many people seem to think the FMV process is a way to cheat. 
     It's not.   There are so many easier ways like  a phony  receipt,  or doctored receipt,  just not list it and hope it's ignored, etc. 
Anyone  publicly   asking something is likely up front enough about it to at least try to be reasonable.  
      There is always going to be differences in value. A Chevy guy will pay more for a Chevy part than a Ford guy will.  Good scroungers won't pay as much as a guy who is eager or desperately  needs something.  Finally there is a little envy. Aw that's to good a deal or gee I wish I found that. 
 In the end people who cheat really only cheat themselves. 

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm busy today with preparations: Easter weekend.

I'm available next Saturday (April 23rd) are you available?

In reply to Indy - Guy :

This is the FMV site not the for sale site.  
 I've already said I'm going the undocumented route  so that means I plan to use it myself.  
 Sorry you skipped over reading every thing and jumped right ahead to the I want to buy.   But if another one comes sround I'll let you know.  

frenchyd said:

My observation of the FMV process. 
      Many people seem to think the FMV process is a way to cheat. 
     It's not.   There are so many easier ways like  a phony  receipt,  or doctored receipt,  just not list it and hope it's ignored, etc. 
Anyone  publicly   asking something is likely up front enough about it to at least try to be reasonable.  
      There is always going to be differences in value. A Chevy guy will pay more for a Chevy part than a Ford guy will.  Good scroungers won't pay as much as a guy who is eager or desperately  needs something.  Finally there is a little envy. Aw that's to good a deal or gee I wish I found that. 
 In the end people who cheat really only cheat themselves. 

Frenchyd!

You backpedal louder than a schoolbus!

Frenchyd "These parts are junk junk they aren't worth anything, can everyone agree so my dream challenge build can be awesome?"

Multiple of the cheapest bastards on the internet "no wait if you think that's worthless I'm coming from a long way away to get it. I'll even pay you more than you say it's worth."

Frenchyd "Are you crazy I'm not selling for that little! I know what it is! Knowledge is power!"

Beeep beeep beeep beeep.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Cheap bastard here, I agree. 

frenchyd said:

.....
PS if you're too generous I'll gladly sell it to you 
....

Nobody skipped reading anything

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Frenchyd!

You backpedal louder than a schoolbus!

Frenchyd "These parts are junk junk they aren't worth anything, can everyone agree so my dream challenge build can be awesome?"

Multiple of the cheapest bastards on the internet "no wait if you think that's worthless I'm coming from a long way away to get it. I'll even pay you more than you say it's worth."

Frenchyd "Are you crazy I'm not selling for that little! I know what it is! Knowledge is power!"

Beeep beeep beeep beeep.

Hey, I'll repeat what I said earlier. Several times. I'm going the undocumented route.  

gumby said:

frenchyd said:

.....
PS if you're too generous I'll gladly sell it to you 
....

Nobody skipped reading anything

Please go back and read 2 things.  
 I've said I'm going the undocumented route.  
   And the full text was if offers are too generous in their evaluation's  I'll sell it  

  So far none of the offers have been too generous.    
 

SV reX said:

In reply to frenchyd :

The rules say if production frame rails are used it is legal. The car was a shortened P71 chassis (if I remember correctly). 
 

A full tube frame would be an exception. 

I refer to the 3rd paragraph of the eligibility rule. If tube frame is used Body must be substantially similar.