Datsun Roadster: 2020 Challenge Build

In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :

I swear half the things I've done in my career have come out of the McMaster catalog.  Just need to know how it all goes together.

I guess the fooling around is pretty much over.

In reply to wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) :

Haha I hope so!

Today I got basically everything plugged in and connected a battery.

and I've got cranking!

But there are some intermittent clack noises, might be the starter clutch slipping or something. Worst part is I'm not yet seeing oil pressure at all, which is bad since I've been cranking a lot and would expect something by now. Ug. I haven't tried fuel or ether yet since I don't have any oil pressure. So now I might go ahead and drop the pan to have a look.

Took oil pan off, clearly it had been off before (wonderful). Initially nothing looked too wrong. Removed the pickup tube, and there was no oil inside it... I found one of the two mount bolts was crossthreaded, and not in all the way. I thought maybe it wasn't making good connection to the block, so I fixed that. May have been a problem, but it wasn't the problem. Still no pressure.

Then I searched the internet which said sometimes you can get an air pocket between the pump and oil filter on these motors and the oil pumps don't pump air well. Lots of fixes including running the engine at over 2000 rpm with no oil pressure until it builds. Doesn't sound great to me.

One solution offered was to loosen the oil filter and run the starter until oil comes out. Then tighten the filter and prime more. I can't explain why, but it seems to have worked. Getting oil flow now. 

But I had to stop because of battery needing charge and because I need to install the clutch pushrod because oil is leaking out that hole. Hopefully I can fire it up soon!

227 hours after about 5 today.

hang in there, you're close to it now.  Just over the next hill.

Well, bad news post day:

I spent an hour diagnosing on the 4th and then another hour working this morning. Big snag.

I was trying to fire up the engine but getting no fuel pump and no spark. Hmmm. Looked in the factory service manual and the only sensor fault that would actually cause a no start condition is a faulty crank position sensor. So I did the resistance tests on the sensor and checked the wiring, everything checked out ok, but I decided to take a look inside anyway since I needed to swap that cover regardless (that one had the stripped hole in the cover).

Only after swapping sensors and putting stuff back together did I notice this:

The motor is an 01-02. The ecu and wiring I have is from an 03-04 motor. The crank wheel I'm holding in my hand is from my 03-04 parts motor.

Notice how different the crank position toothed wheel is. Damn.

I could probably swap the gear. But the spline is indexed on the 03-04 crank, and it's not indexed on the 01-02 crank. Of course the factory service manual doesn't give any info on timing the crank sprocket other than "install it so the big tooth fits on the big tooth" or something like that. Even if I take a look at both cranks out of the motors I could probably get the wheel timed close to correct, but then who knows if I'd always have running issues because it was 5degrees off or something.

Yuk yuk yuk yuk. I wanted to keep everything stock Suzuki so I didn't have problems like this lol.

Ok, from wading through some GSXR forums, it looks like this crank sensor issue is well known for swapping between 01-02 and 03+. It sounds like the splines are actually all cut the same, so as long as I index it appropriately with respect to the crank it should be in the correct position. 

Getting the chain guides out of the way in order to swap the gear might be a head-off job however. grrr. 229 hours. 

Fingers crossed on this one.  

I've been following this closely as it relates to a lot of my interests. Body swap onto a tube frame. Check. BEC. Check. The work you're doing is great and I have also now learned that it seems to make sense to buy a running, riding motorcycle donor for a BEC project. 

Fingers crossed for you as well. 

Ok, I am making a gear change right now and moving forward with the CBR600 motor instead of the GSXR1000. Some details of this decision in this thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/what-would-you-do-40-more-horsepower-or-1000-back-in-challenge-budget/174490/page1/

But the long and short of it is the CBR600rr (2009) that came with the f440 runs, and currently the GSXR doesn't. I may be able to cobble something together from the various GSXR motors I have around, but having a running and driving car sooner rather than later is priority number one for me right now. 

The honda is also almost 10 years newer, and therefore the connectors and stuff all just seem nicer. I think a factory built motor is likely more reliable than a motor I've 'cobbled together' on a challenge budget. And the honda motor came with a lot of cool stuff I will probably use like an akrapovic exhaust and a bazzazz piggyback fuel injection and quickshifter unit. Also, the honda motor puts a lot of $$ back into the budget should I decide I want to do fun stuff with the car in the future (e85? turbo? slipper clutch? suspension? aero? nitrous?). Even just having breathing room in the budget for stuff like paint is a big bonus. 

Interestingly enough, the output sprocket from the honda VFR interceptor (the motor that was on the chassis when I got it) is 16T and fits onto the output shaft of the CBR600 - thanks for being consistent over the years, honda! So while I will probably try to grab a 17T and 18T front sprocket (and maybe a 15T just in case) as well, I think the 16T sprocket will be just about right for the gearing. 

Gonna be a lot of shifting!

AxeHealey said:

I've been following this closely as it relates to a lot of my interests. Body swap onto a tube frame. Check. BEC. Check. The work you're doing is great and I have also now learned that it seems to make sense to buy a running, riding motorcycle donor for a BEC project. 

Fingers crossed for you as well. 

I'm just bolding the truest words here. I think it applies to all engine swaps. Yes, you can piece stuff together, but by far the easier way is to start with a running driving donor. 

Yep. Running challenge car beats non-running 10 times out of 10. 

Budget breathing room helps, too. Guess you'll have to add more lightness to get your projected performance back.

We're doing family staycation this week so fewer updates. But I did get a couple hours this morning.

Tore down the cbr600 (it was quick and easy, working with nice harness connectors is... nice).

Started mocking up new engine plates. Good news is that the width is very similar and I should be able to use almost exactly the same design. The cbr600 only uses one engine mount bolt each side instead of two on the gsxr. 

234 hours.

​​​​​​

235 hours 

Single bolt engine plates are a lot easier (and I've already done it once). Overall shape will be a lot different but these are made out of some of the "first try" plywood pieces from the gsxr motor plates.

Nine more hours in over the last 3 days! I need to start kicking a and taking names to get this thing running and driving.

I got the engine mocked up in the car (a lot of measuring, looking, adjusting, measuring, checking level, fitting, repeating, etc) and started some cad for the rear engine mount.

Cut from some flat stock.

Mark centers (and only have to remake one because you drill the hole wrong):

Bam. Left some washers in there on either side to allow for some adjustability down the line of needed.

After that was set it allowed me to get out my sawzall again and start clearancing for exhaust.

I'll be cutting my entire earlier hack job out and just welding in a better piece, but I was just cutting to fit here.

Maybe this exhaust will help activate the underside of the wing!

The good news is the cbr600 just fits really well. I've got everything lined up and leveled where I want it, just need to cut more aluminum now. The oil pan and exhaust are a little higher than the bottom of the frame rails, vs the gsxr which hung below. I like that a lot better. The cbr exhaust config doesn't interfere with anything else, where the gsxr was also going to need work around the axle.

Cbr chain position should be good to go as well, might need a guide on the slack side to get around my mount but also might be ok without. Finally, I should be back to regular schedule tomorrow so I'm excited to get back to this each morning.

244 hours.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Excellent work, as always.

Pro tip: anywhere you have to cut an inside corner, such as the rear engine mounts above, drill a hole at the location of the inside corner and cut in to the hole. Greatly reduces (maybe even eliminates?) crack propagation.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

I did not know that, cool!

Does it matter though if you're welding both sides to something else? Like any hole I drilled there would likely just have gotten welded up.

Today I rough cut my new side plates. Then I swept my shop floor because I had tons of aluminum dust (this is not just from this morning - I haven't swept in a long time).

Finally I zipped off the cbr front sprocket and put the vfr sprocket I hope to use on.

245 hours 

246 hours.

Looking really good!

I'm still not exactly clear on how you're going to integrate the body, but I guess I'll call that delayed gratification.

TVR Scott (Forum Supporter) said:

Looking really good!

I'm still not exactly clear on how you're going to integrate the body, but I guess I'll call that delayed gratification.

thanks! 

and me neither... but priority number 1 is a running driving car, so I'm focused there right now. Hoping to be driving sans body by end of July. 

Got a couple in last night and one more hour this morning.

Both engine plates ready and I prepped everything for welding into place.

Also, I got tired of lifting the engine by hand, so I suspended it from the frame.

Started drilling the holes in the side plates to bolt to the bottom bars. Broke a small drill bit off inside the aluminum while drilling a pilot hole, and that is really annoying because now I have a small piece of really hard metal imbedded in soft metal, but right where I want my hole. Grrr.

Also I started looking at clutch cables and such. The one I built for the gsxr would work but isn't long enough. So I will probably use the stock cable with another cable to extend it a bit, or try to make one long cable.

249 hours 

It is good to hear the 600 is working out so well. I am looking forward the highly anticipated driving sans body, that is always a major milestone.

The eagle has landed.

Let's let this be the 250 hour picture. Side plates are done, everything is bolted together ready for final positioning and then welding to the sliding frame.

Anyone else think this engine looks strikingly like a stormtrooper or some other sci-fi evil man-machine combo?

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

50 more hours and you could have built a Factory Five Cobra.  I just wanted a reference.