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irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/3/21 11:41 a.m.

This project is going to start pretty slow as I do some planning, but figured I'd start up a thread now to keep my thoughts in one place (my mind is a bad place to keep my thoughts....). I'll probably cc some of the work in the Raider build thread as well, since this is related to that, but I'll document everything here. 

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Always on the hunt for a new build of something I don't have and that fulfills certain automotive needs. I have my 4x4 offroad/adventure rig, my tow vehicle, my sportscar, my racecar, and my daily driver (and a car hauler 16' trailer). So most of the boxes are checked. But since selling my 5x8 utility trailer when I bought the car hauler, I've found myself missing it, since the big trailer is a pain in the ass to pull out to do regular utility stuff, and the Sequoia is good for certain big things but not for bulk items (mulch, for instance). 

While browsing around Marketplace, out of the blue I see a guy pretty much giving away an entire 1992 Mitsubishi Mighty Max, in parts (he apparently chopped it up into sections. However, he had a decent-condition bed box there, so I got to thinking. As you probably know, I built a Dodge Raider (aka Gen1 Mitsubishi Montero) and the Mighty Max is essentially the pickup truck version of that. More specifically, it has pretty much the same cosmetic lines to it (body lines, wheel well shape, etc). So what the heck, a trailer seems like a reasonably inexpensive project that won't involve building engines or doing interiors or paying for insurance, etc.

GOALS: So I have some ideas, but not sure exactly what direction this will go. Here's some requirements and/or thoughts:

1. Obviously, general utility. Hauling mulch, picking up furniture, whatever. Suburbia stuff.

2. Adventure? IDK, adventure trailers seem to be the hot thing these days with the offroad crowd, but I have little interest in hauling a trailer offroad, and honestly don't see a reason to since I can fit all my gear in the Raider, and sleep in it. The thought of pulling a trailer offroad just doesn't appeal to me at all. But, let's say I'm going a long way and want to bring extra gear or whatever, I guess it could be useful in certain instances. So this trailer will *be able to* survive being dragged around on offroad trails, etc, but won't be built as an expedition trailer or anything. I likely will set it up to use the same wheels as the Raider (standard Toyota/Mitsu 6-on 5.5 bolt pattern) so I don't have to carry a spare for it, perhaps. And it would look cool.

3. Motorcycle. Ok, so I don't have one and likely won't have one. But I have friends who have offroad bikes and let's say we want to go someplace far away to do some Raider-bike adventure trip stuff (Kentucky Adventure Tour, or up to New England, or something), it would be useful to be able to throw a bike in the trailer so the friend doesn't have to ride hundreds of miles on an offroad bike. 

4. Rally! Of course. So if you do rally, you know that you usually can't bring the car-hauler to the service locations, which means transloading the toolchest and other gear into the tow rig (which is usually already full) or putting it on a hitch-mount basket (what we've been doing). It's logistically kind of a pain in the ass and requires a lot of loading, unloading, and organizing stuff during a 3-4 day rally event. So I've been thinking if we had a smaller trailer that could be towed behind either the service rig or the recce rig, that could just be a dedicated service trailer. Something the Raider can tow, or that Jim's Tacoma can tow, or Stephen's 4Runner, and that's small enough to fit into our service spot at rally. 

So, those are the ideas, and the goal is to make something that can do all of them well with minimal reconfiguration. So why use a pickup bed and not just build (or buy) a full trailer? First, it already has good structure on both the floor and sides, rather than me having to fab up sidewalls, etc in wood or metal. Second, it already has fenders. Most offroad and utility trailers have fenders outside the bed, so the bed is narrower than the entire trailer. WIth a pickup bed you get full-width capacity. Third, I can buy off-the shelf stuff made for it (like a tonneau cover, or cap, or gearboxes, etc). Not that I necessarily will, but it's nice to have that option. 

So let's get to it...

As it happens, Thomas Helgesen needed to get his Volvo up to Nonack's place in Quakertown PA, about 200 miles from me. And the Mighty Max stuff was about 25 miles from there. So worked out a deal with Thomas and towed his Volvo up there in exchange for gas money.

After I left I headed out to a house in a very wooded area with a 1/4 mile driveway that looked like a rally stage and hauled the trailer into an extremely slick and muddy culvert area behind the guy's house (after walking it to make sure I'd actually be able to get back up the steep hill on the way out. 

Loaded up the pickup bed, as well as the rear half of the Mighty Max frame and the rear axle (since it has crossover parts with the Raider and will give me spares). Handed him a few bucks, and locked in 4WD climbed back up to the driveway

Today I unloaded the stuff (some effort, by myself, since it's all quite heavy) and took a look

Stuck the frame on it just to see what the lines looked like. However, I likely won't use any of the original frame, other than maybe a few of the mount brackets that I can cut off. It's heavier than I need and I don't want the drop-down at the front (for the cab, etc). Plus a few parts of it were already chopped off so I think It'll be easier to just scratch-build a frame.

So the bed overall is an old bed that has definitely gotten utility use. Plenty of dents on the inner wheel wells but overall almost entirely rust-free

Other than one small area, which shouldn't be too hard to fix.

There is some damage to both lower rear corners (one side is pretty mild, the other side pretty mashed), but I may or may not cut off those lower areas anyhow (and/or repair them). We'll see, at some later time. 

It's also nice that all the wiring is still in place, which should make lighting, etc pretty easy to do

And he had the original taillights which are in pretty nice shape, so I can re-use them

Unfortunately he didn't have the tailgate, so I'll be keeping an eye open for one of those (the ones from the Mighty Max or Dodge D50 will both fit, since they're the same), or I'll just build something.

So something like this is kind of the idea, though it won't be exactly like it.

Wanted: Offroad trailer or the parts to build one | RME4x4.com

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/3/21 11:56 a.m.

Sweet. 

Many thoughts on getting rid of my beloved Tacoma for soemthing that tows better and this would be an option if I went Cayenne or something.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/3/21 12:12 p.m.
preach said:

Sweet. 

Many thoughts on getting rid of my beloved Tacoma for soemthing that tows better and this would be an option if I went Cayenne or something.

I mean, I intend to tow this with my Raider and its 160hp V6....I don't see any reason why your Taco would have any issue with something this small and light. I expect this to weigh maybe 500-600lbs empty (much of that being the wheels, axles  and tires, so unsprung weight anyhow) 

preach
preach GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/3/21 12:33 p.m.

I need to tow an aluminum trailer and a 3000# car. Thus the potential to get an SUV and a trailer. I really want a 12v Cummins J-truck Jeep.

 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/3/21 12:39 p.m.
preach said:

I need to tow an aluminum trailer and a 3000# car. Thus the potential to get an SUV and a trailer. I really want a 12v Cummins J-truck Jeep.

 

Ah ok, makes sense. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/4/21 5:50 a.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/4/21 7:45 a.m.
John Welsh said:

Toyota SEMA version

Yeah I think toyota certainly checked all the boxes fortrendy overlanding gear on that one haha.  I can't say I understand what the point of having a pickup bed trailer is if you are towing it with a pickup with the same bed though!

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) Dork
1/4/21 8:32 a.m.

Awesome. I have such a strong urge for something similar, made of a Courier (or a datsun, honestly) to tow behind my Courier. I'll be following along!

AxeHealey
AxeHealey GRM+ Memberand Dork
1/4/21 8:59 a.m.

Cool. I enjoy watching your builds and it looks like this will be no different. 

What kind of axel are you going to use? My buddy runs the timbren axle-less setup on his homebuilt off-road teardrop and loves it. I've followed him at like 40-50 mph on washboards pulling that thing and it does fine. Same with crawling. It's pretty nice having all that clearance off-road. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/4/21 6:57 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) said:

What kind of axel are you going to use? My buddy runs the timbren axle-less setup on his homebuilt off-road teardrop and loves it. I've followed him at like 40-50 mph on washboards pulling that thing and it does fine. Same with crawling. It's pretty nice having all that clearance off-road. 

I considered doing a Timbren, but honestly, just don't want to spend that much on this project. For a Timbren with enough clearance for large A/T tires and 6-lug hubs, I'd be getting close to $1000 all said. Whereas a conventional leaf spring setup I'm probably $400 all-in (with brakes) and that's assuming I buy everything new. I don't plan on pulling the trailer in any gnarly terrain, truthfully. And I'll probably run 31" tires on this thing (clones of what the Raider has), so clearance will be better than the Raider and I can air down pretty low on rough roads. 

Of course, all of that is subject to change :)

untchabl
untchabl Reader
1/4/21 7:04 p.m.

Why not just use the rear axle that you got with the bed? Already the correct width and wheel bolt pattern. Easily adapted to whatever leaf springs you choose to use on the trailer. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/4/21 7:05 p.m.

Today I rolled down to the local steel place and picked up 40 feet of 2x3 .120 wall square tube, cut into 10-foot lengths, which will give me the right sizes for my cut-ups (and also fit in the Sequoia!)

When I got home, I cleared out my other garage bay and needed to move the bed from my backyard up to the garage. By myself, since nobody was around to help out. Before I did that I got the hose out and washed it good since working on dirty/muddy stuff sucks. Then made the move.....had to improvise

Then blocked it up and shimmed the blocks to get it sitting perfectly level and square, so when I build the frame it won't have any twist to it.

After that, today's goal was to get the two side rails for the frame in place. Compllicated a bit since the truck's original frame had some curves to it so the mounts on the bed are not in a straight line. So Basically I aligned to a forward and rear mount spot and used the factory mounts. I had to move the fronts over an inch or so to make sure the rails run parallel. I'll build L-brackets for the other two offset mounts sometime this week.

Access holes through the bottom for the nuts

Then did some more shimming and leveling to make sure the main rails are perfectly level, even, and vertical

So that's basically where I stopped for the day. I did grab the spare tire off the Raider just to see what my clerances are going to look like and get an idea of whether I want to go axle-under or axle-over.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
1/4/21 7:48 p.m.

Wait so you're telling me the guy who sold you the bed has a Mighty Max cab and the front of the frame?  Did he mention a title?  I'm having dangerous long travel desert racer thoughts...

Trailer looks good so far!

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/4/21 7:59 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Wait so you're telling me the guy who sold you the bed has a Mighty Max cab and the front of the frame?  Did he mention a title?  I'm having dangerous long travel desert racer thoughts...

Trailer looks good so far!

yup, has a cab that appears in good shape, and I assume the front of the frame is still sitting there (though I think I have the part with the rear cab mounts). That said, I'm almost certain he does NOT have a title for the stuff.....

I mean, Mighty Maxes are pretty cheap on marketplace....

AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter)
AWSX1686 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
1/5/21 1:03 p.m.

This should be fun to see come together!

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/5/21 6:16 p.m.
untchabl said:

Why not just use the rear axle that you got with the bed? Already the correct width and wheel bolt pattern. Easily adapted to whatever leaf springs you choose to use on the trailer. 

a few reasons:

1. It's heavy as hell, and while it's unsprung weight, this thing is going to be pulled by the Raider, which isn't a powerhouse. So while I plan to build this to be pretty heavy-duty, I do want to cut out weight wherever I can, within reason. 

2. Oddly, the Mighty Max actually has a 3" wider track than the Raider/Montero (55 vs 58"). One thing that results in is pretty limited outside clerance on the Mighty Max bed with any particularly big tires. After mocking things up, I'm having an axle made with a 55" track to best fit the big tires. 

3. Brakes. The axle I'm getting will have provisions for adding brakes (which I will likely do, since the Raider's brakes are really only suitable for itself). Trying to make the old axle's brakes somehow work well seems like a waste of time. I'd rather have dedicated trailer brakes run through a controller (I plan to wire this for a 7-pin connector)

4. If I happen to be far from home and need it, I'd prefer to be able to go to any tractor supply and pick up bearings or a hub. 

5. I'm going to scavenge the Mitsu axle for spares shafts/hubs for the Raider anyhow, so I'm not just throwing it away. 

I know that's kind of anathema to the GRM/"redneck trailer build" thing, but real trailer axles are very cheap (I'm having one custom made with the correct track and spring locations for my frame, for like $140). So I really just don't see any reason to use the original axle. While this trailer will be on a relatively low budget, axle/hub/brakes/suspension will all be brand-new so I can do it exactly how I want it and not have a half-ass setup like some trailers I see. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/5/21 6:29 p.m.

Let's get back to it today, with some more frame stuff. 

I'll just note up front that two issues came up today:

1. About 30 minutes into work, the liner for my welder wire got a fatal kink (or some other interior issue) and I couldn't fix it. So I had to make a run to tractor supply and get a new one.

2. About 5 minutes after I fixed that, I ran out of welding gas. So I switched over to flux-core. And really, I have a giant spool of .035 flux here that I never use, so actually probably will just use it for the rest of the frame stuff, since who cares if it doesn't look as pretty under there. 

So, first off I wanted to set up the tow neck. After doing some calculations I decided on an overall length of 5 feet from the front of the bed. This also will give me 2 feet of storage on the neck and still be able to open the Raider's rear door with the trailer attached. First off built a pair of crossbars and notched them for the neck.

You'll note for the neck I'm turning the steel to its wide/flat side (so 3" wide, 2" tall) as opposed to the rest of the frame. I'm not sure if there's an upside or downside to this, but thought it would be a preferable setup.

Then notched the two side rails (which I had left 4 feet and change of).

And bent in

At the other end, I notched them to basically "wrap over" the center neck (keep in mind, you're looking at the BOTTOM of the trailer here)

Then added the two rear crosspieces and welded everything up (will flip the frame tomorrow to do the welds on the top side)

Also welded on one of the four mount brackets I'm adding (just half-cut profiles from scrap tube).

Note on the front end, I made the crossmember extent in front of the bed so I can use it as a base for the platform ahead of the bed.

So on the middle section where the Mitsubishi frame curved up for axle clearance, the bed stringers are angled, so they don't touch the new frame, so I'll build some little triangular mounts there so that the frame is actually holding the load.

Anyhow, that's where I'm at for the moment. I also orderd my axle, hubs, and spring mounts, which will probably take a couple weeks since I'm having the axle made to specific track and spring center specs that I think will be good for this setup.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/6/21 9:22 p.m.

Flipped the frame today to do all the underside welds (well, the top-side I guess). 

At the front of the neck I made cuts and folded down the open ends of the diagonal side bars, so now they're all closed up.

I also drilled out the spot welds on a couple of the stock bed mount brackets and relocated them over a few inches to align with the new frame, which was more work than I expected it to be...

In any case, the whole frame is now welded (some welds prettier than others, but such is life for an occasional welder), and I have all eight of the bed mounts aligned and set up. I have a few other smaller things to do on the frame (a few brace pieces) as well as the suspension mounts once they come in. 

In addition, a new toy came in today, something I've been considering for years but finally pulled the trigger on now that they're getting so inexpensive. This one seems to have really good reviews, and from what I can tell it's good quality. 

Tested it out on a variety of pieces and it works great (though I need to work on being smoother with it). Only issue is that I had it plugged in to my highest-amp garage (110) circuit, which my small HF air compressor is also on. So when the compressor kicked on halfway through the cut, it tripped the breaker. Oops. I really should get some 220 installed in this garage already, or a couple extra high-amp 110 circuits. 

artur1808
artur1808 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
1/7/21 7:11 a.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

You'll note for the neck I'm turning the steel to its wide/flat side (so 3" wide, 2" tall) as opposed to the rest of the frame. I'm not sure if there's an upside or downside to this, but thought it would be a preferable setup.

Preferable for mounting the hitch?

Only downside I can think of is it'll  (theoretically) be easier to bend up/down. But I really doubt it'll matter for how light the trailer is and the fact that you have the side members tied in and oriented the other way. How much does that frame weigh?

Anyway, awesome build! Keep it up, love how quick you're making progress on this. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/7/21 8:19 a.m.
artur1808 said:
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

You'll note for the neck I'm turning the steel to its wide/flat side (so 3" wide, 2" tall) as opposed to the rest of the frame. I'm not sure if there's an upside or downside to this, but thought it would be a preferable setup.

Preferable for mounting the hitch?

Only downside I can think of is it'll  (theoretically) be easier to bend up/down. But I really doubt it'll matter for how light the trailer is and the fact that you have the side members tied in and oriented the other way. How much does that frame weigh?

Anyway, awesome build! Keep it up, love how quick you're making progress on this. 

Based on the weights per foot of the material I used, The frame should weigh around 160 lb, though I will be honest it feels heavier than that. Maybe I'm just getting old and weak :/ . 

Yeah I think one of my main reasons for making the center neck flat was so that I could notch the crossbars rather than cutting them in half entirely, which I figure will make them somewhat stronger. Seems to me that most hitches are 3-in on flat anyway

artur1808
artur1808 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
1/7/21 9:09 a.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

Yeah I think one of my main reasons for making the center neck flat was so that I could notch the crossbars rather than cutting them in half entirely, which I figure will make them somewhat stronger. Seems to me that most hitches are 3-in on flat anyway

Yeah, the issue is that it's the 2" edge that's resisting the bending when it's turned that way, vs. the 3" edge resisting the bending on all of the other bars. Makes me curious of the strength of doing it that way vs a conventional lap joint

 

Again, I'm sure it'll be just fine the way you have it so this is purely academic at this point. Also I'm considering building a small utility trailer as well so this build (as with most of yours) is particularly interesting to me.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/7/21 9:53 a.m.

I plan to add a couple of fishplates/brace plates to the neck where it intersects with the main frame, just to be on the safe side, but honestly I think for the weight this will be carrying it's going to be plenty overbuilt. I'd say it's infinitely stronger than (for instance) the HF trailers that are rated to around 2k lbs and use pretty thin C-channel. 

artur1808
artur1808 GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
1/7/21 11:00 a.m.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Totally agree, looks plenty strong enough as it is. 

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/7/21 6:21 p.m.

Plodding along trying to finish up the frame. Flipped it again to do the remaining things on the top (bed) side. Because I'm overly paranoid about things not being strong enough (lack of confidence in my welding, IDK), I added some frame reinforcement up in the neck area. I had some 6x6 1/8" plate sitting around so I cut a couple of them up with the plasma cutter (which keeps tripping my garage circuit breaker, so that's a project that needs some upgrading soon). Still getting in practice with use of it, but on a fishplate that nobody will see, it's good enough

Also needed to make some brackets to level off the two angled bed stringers, which were made to fit the curve in the OEM frame. So a bit more cutting....

Also, this dude landed right outside the garage to check out what I was up to..

Anyhow, with that stuff done I think that's all I need to do for now on the top side of the frame, so went ahead and painted that side of it (and will do a second coat) so I can flip it back into place while it awaits suspension/axle stuff to arrive. 

Oh and here are those brackets actually welded on

So, probably will be a few days before I do anything else on this since I have a couple projects to do on the rally car and on the Raider. Thanks for bearing with me on the boring early parts of this build :)

 

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