Hello and greetings from Stavanger, Norway!
I have been following this tread for two months now, and it's just great. There's just one thing I'd like to rectify, and I will since it's my birthday today: mazdeuce, this R63 of yours is a station wagon, not a mini-van or a van. Station Wagon
Also I'd like to share a picture with you:
Guido used to have a pet sparrow...
In reply to AngryNorwegianAnchovy:
I'm glad you're having fun reading along. I enjoy all of the people from around the world that have now seen the inside of my garage.
The minivan thing is more of a context thing. In 2007, in the U.S., the R63 was clearly a minivan. Pretty much everything at the time that was unibody and had a front facing third row was a minivan. I know Mercedes hated the category and vehemently denied it was one, but all of the reviews agreed. Time has softened categories a bit, cars have grown taller, and if you introduced the R63 today people would argue whether it was a tall wagon or a sleek-ish SUV, but in proper historical context, it's still a minivan.
In reply to mazdeuce:
I claim anything that is a two box design that is taller than a station wagon is a minivan, and nothing else will convince me otherwise. It's a doll, not an action figure! 
I first got the notion from Lewis Grizzard's autobiography where he describes being brought home from heart surgery in a "Chevy Blazer van." At first, I was mortified and appalled. The more I thought about it, however, the more sense it made, and between the lines getting increasingly blurred over the years (along with a new, neutral category "crossover" which seems to mean "we don't want to call it an SUV or a minivan because we already made three different kinds of each") and the actual given use of said vehicles, "minivan" as a catchall term makes a lot more sense.
mazdeuce wrote:Stampie wrote: In reply to Ian F: But maybe he'll find enough hidden drugs to zero it out.On a related note, the smuggling capacity of the first gen Insight is insane. There is this big aluminum bulkhead behind the seats and the majority of that is empty space. It's probably telling that the first thing I thought about when I took it apart is the smuggling possibilities. The V12 Mercedes is high on my list for engines for a homebuilt car.
Is that a veiled attempt at getting me to buy your Insight on the off chance I need to smuggle something? Now I'm wondering how many gallons that hole can hold.
In reply to Stampie:
Eco moonshine bootlegger?
Just to add to the list here, there is a black on black r63 in orange county Cal, listed with cars.com private party, I spoke with them in regards to it. (been looking for a good r500 for a while) asking 43k, current offer at 39 and hoping for at least 41. It has 126k miles and is a 2 owner that spent 40k and 18 months in Italy also.
Little bit of an interesting history having exported it and brought it back but it's crazy the spike in resale price since last year when you brought all of this attention to the vehicle Mazdeuce.
Any updates on the R63? You waiting on parts?
To me, the R-class isn't a minivan. It's an SUV trying to act like a minivan. No sliding doors? Not a minivan.
Sky_Render wrote: Any updates on the R63? You waiting on parts?
There was a parts wait, another parts wait because I was a flake, two weekends lost to the rally, one weekend lost to kid stuff, inlaws here, upcoming family vacation, my sister coming to visit from Belgium and Mrs. Deuce ending one job and starting another which has completely changed some kid hauling duties for the time being.
I made a promise to myself that all of those things would be more important than the van. Things will calm down and I'll get back to work.
rslifkin wrote: To me, the R-class isn't a minivan. It's an SUV trying to act like a minivan. No sliding doors? Not a minivan.
As a counterpoint I present the first generation Honda Odyssey. 
In reply to Nash:
I'm still a bit weirded out by the idea that this slightly idiotic thread (where I haven't actually fixed anything yet) has somehow affected the market. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for an increase in value, especially for cars with updated head bolts, but it's still weird.
Your thread has done at least two things affecting resale:
It has exposed a "ticking time bomb" waiting to detonate in a certain run of engines. Many people reading this now-viral thread may not understand that the problem pertains only to a certain run of engines or they can't ascertain which are the potentially bad ones so best to stay away.
Your personal travails with Mercedes show the company will leave you twisting in the wind if you're either not the original owner of the vehicle or purchased it used from a Mercedes dealer. Since we are talking about the reselling of a vehicle to another person, it stands to reason the value of that transaction will be diminished by both a shrinking buyer pool scared off by your experience and a glut of vehicles coming to market as some present owners panic.
Mercedes did not foresee the ripple effect caused by you throwing a rock in their pond. If they took some of these vehicles in trade, they may end up valued lower than the trade-in price. Or they might arouse the ire of a consumer group or two wondering why there wasn't a recall. Or be the defendants in a class-action suit as angry owners watch their valuable vehicles get less valuable by the second.
We know you weren't looking for blood but, had Mercedes at least given you a break on parts prices, they might've scored a little PR coup instead of looking like Cruella DeVille the Puppy Killer.
I don't really see any evidence that the R63 has been negatively affected by this thread - they're trading at high $30k-low $40k range. I think mazdeuce said originally he was looking at cars in the low $30k range when he bought.
I think this thread has certainly brought these cars to the awareness of enthusiasts who previously didn't know they existed. The rareness of the R63 model means the more people covet them, the higher their value will be.
bastomatic wrote: I think this thread has certainly brought these cars to the awareness of enthusiasts who previously didn't know they existed. The rareness of the R63 model means the more people covet them, the higher their value will be.
If prices drop on these vehicles, that's when your fellow GRMers swoop in for the sale. If you gotta go minivan, you might as well go 500-horsepower minivan.
I think the tone is the thread may have increased awareness and market value for these rather than diminished value. The thread is the first/only instance that shows them to be complex, but diy-able.
I found this on the Road and Track website. Its' really cool that one person took the initiative to take on a task this big and is running a forum thread on it. I own an S-Class AMG, so its cool to see someone fiddling with an AMG because I'm afraid of even touching my car's engine.
In reply to likethebossiam:
They really aren't too bad. There is a learning curve but it's not different than learning any manufacturer. Of course I haven't dealt with the software side of things yet, so I may be singing a different tune in a bit.
As to this whole adventure and values and Mercedes. I've learned a lot about dealers and the corporate side of things that I didn't know before. Prior to this I visited a dealer exactly twice after purchasing a car. Once was for special Toyota antifreeze for my wife's FJ Cruiser, and once was for my V wagon spitting out that one axle. I had a very narrow range of experience that is a bit bigger now. Mercedes hasn't reached out to me in any way since this thread exploded across the internet. I don't blame them really, the potential upside is small. I'm just glad they're back to racing and bringing an AMG wagon to the States. Lots of reasons to be happy being a new Mercedes customer these days.
Prices do seem to be up a bit but there is a cautious tone to the BAT sales. It will be interesting to see if one ever publicly trades hands that has the head bolts replaced.
mazdeuce wrote:rslifkin wrote: To me, the R-class isn't a minivan. It's an SUV trying to act like a minivan. No sliding doors? Not a minivan.As a counterpoint I present the first generation Honda Odyssey.
...and sales of the first generation Odyssey were dismal. Note how subsequent versions have sliding doors?
counter-counterpoint.
Ian F wrote:mazdeuce wrote:...and sales of the first generation Odyssey were dismal. Note how subsequent versions have sliding doors? counter-counterpoint.rslifkin wrote: To me, the R-class isn't a minivan. It's an SUV trying to act like a minivan. No sliding doors? Not a minivan.As a counterpoint I present the first generation Honda Odyssey.
I didn't say it was a GOOD minivan, just that it was one. Between the Odyssey and the R63 we can agree that regular doors do not make for a popular minivan.
Check counter counter point!
Ian F wrote:mazdeuce wrote:...and sales of the first generation Odyssey were dismal. Note how subsequent versions have sliding doors? counter-counterpoint.rslifkin wrote: To me, the R-class isn't a minivan. It's an SUV trying to act like a minivan. No sliding doors? Not a minivan.As a counterpoint I present the first generation Honda Odyssey.
Same with Mazda MPV - hell, the 1st gen MPV had a single outward opening door for most of it's life.
mazdeuce wrote: I didn't say it was a GOOD minivan, just that it was one.
Automotive history books are filled with bad ideas that somehow made it into production.
mazdeuce wrote: I didn't say it was a GOOD minivan, just that it was one. Between the Odyssey and the R63 we can agree that regular doors do not make for a popular minivan. Check counter counter point!
The other non-minivan thing about the R class is that's longitudinal RWD/AWD. Pretty much every other minivan-ish thing is a transverse FWD (OK, except for the crazy Previa).
The "minivan" class is pretty much only sold in the US & Canada, Europe gets an "MPV" class which is similar but not quite the same. I think the R class is an MPV that got imported to the US by mistake, rather than a minivan.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Station HIHIHIHIHIHIHIHI Wagon HEHEHEHHEHE I love you Sweet Disabled Guys!
codrus wrote:mazdeuce wrote: I didn't say it was a GOOD minivan, just that it was one. Between the Odyssey and the R63 we can agree that regular doors do not make for a popular minivan. Check counter counter point!The other non-minivan thing about the R class is that's longitudinal RWD/AWD. Pretty much every other minivan-ish thing is a transverse FWD (OK, except for the crazy Previa).
And the Astro (which I could swear has had swinging doors in the past), and the Aerostar.
Not that it really matters much, as a lot of "SUV"s also have transverse drivetrains.
Saw the strangest R class thing last Thursday afternoon on my way back to Detroit from Pittsburgh. Over the course of about an hour I saw 6 car haulers headed east on the OH turnpike each FULLY loaded with R class Mercedes minivans. Seven R's per trailer and all except one were black. No other makes or models on the trailers.
What was going on with these? Where were they going??? Why was there one lone silver R class in the herd???
You'll need to log in to post.
