S10 - Take Two

Depending on what I find as I dig into the truck, this could be a very short build thread.  I am hoping not.

Several years ago, I bought an S10 roller from another GRMer with the intent of running it in the challenge.  Several snags were hit, and it never made it, but it has now turned into a fun (and very out of budget) fair weather cruiser.  Time for another attempt.

Cooper_Tired bought an Integra for the 2022 Challenge from a guy who also happened to have a couple of pickup trucks laying around.  One was an S10 Extreme.  Well, two years later, and I'm ready to take another crack at the challenge, and found out both trucks were up for grabs.  I sort of bought them both, despite really only having a plan for the S10.  But this thread is about the S10, the other one will not be likely to make a challenge appearance.  

So, for the princely sum of $300, this beaut is mine:

Ran when parked a few years ago, but right now, the starter does not seem to do anything, so I need to dig into the wiring, or maybe just hit it with a hammer.  Rust is pretty bad on the body, but from what I have seen so far, the frame is probably okay.  If it isn't, then I may have to cut bait and part it out, or maybe use the drivetrain as a donor for a lighter weight challenge car.  Being a ZQ8, it has a factory lowered suspension, bigger front sway bar, and a rear sway bar.  I did not luck out on the rear axle - it's a 7.625" open diff.  I haven't looked closely enough to tell if it has the hop shock, but it is an automatic, so it may not.

I actually bought it a ways back, but couldn't haul it home at the time.  With loads of help from wae and Cooper_Tired, we retrieved it yesterday.  I tossed a couple bug bombs in it last night, just in case.  While dodging raindrops this morning, I took it from this:

To this:

Looks better, but it is crusty.  Next step is to try to get it started and moving under its own power.  After that, start selling off parts, including the truck cap.  Not sure I'll be able to zero it out, but it would be nice.

In anticipation of picking up the truck, a little ways back, I bought a set of C5 Z06 wheels (all 17" front wheels) for $150.  Will need to grab some spacers to get them to fit.  Too bad the Hoosiers on them are corded and out of date.

As for the challenge, I've been attending and competing with friends off and on since 2005.  We've mostly built stuff that we thought might be cool to mess with, but we never really tried to build something with the potential to win.  Heck, with the exception of 2006, I don't think there was even an attempt to be in the pointy end of the field.  Other than that goal, there is not much of a plan, or rather there are dozens of different plans.  We're going to try not to make it too complicated, have plenty of testing time, and build something that a pro driver can hop into and drive hard without it biting them.  With no autocross in Ohio during the winter, 2025 will be a building, testing, and development year, and 2026 will be the intended debut year at the challenge.  Wish us luck.  We'll need it.

Also, anyone in the SW Ohio area who is interested in joining a challenge team, let me know.  There's four of us right now, but the more the merrier.

What engine does it have? Any powertrain plans?

In reply to maschinenbau :

It's the 4.3 HO, so 190 HP.  I had considered keeping it, but even if the engine is good, I think it will get sold off and replaced.  Making additional horsepower NA is spendy, and it seems everyone who has turbo'd one goes through engines with some regularity once they turn up the boost to make the power I want to see.

I do have some LS swap parts laying around, so that is the leading contender, but we are pretty open.  Mid engine is also a possibility, maybe with a FWD LS, or a 3800SC.  Might even go for a 2GR-FE.   I think the only thing we have really dismissed at this point is a K swap, as we just don't have the experience with them, and it seems like the build could go over challenge budget very quickly.

Still plenty of 4.3s in the junkyards, right?  Turbo, blow it up, swap it out.  Rinse and repeat.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Plenty of donors, sure, but the 4.3 is heavy plus additional weight of spinny bits and you're knocking on sbc weight anyway and still making less power. 

In reply to eastsideTim :

Yours wouldn't be the first S10 Extreme to compete in the Challenge, or even the first mid-engined one  I bet you could execute it much more cleanly though

In reply to maschinenbau :

That was a bit of inspiration.  I even have one of their stickers around somewhere.  Did it end up being one of the lower performing Wreck Racing entries?  So, still better than most other teams, but just not up to their usual standards?

That looks like a great deal! Can't wait to see it in Gainesville.

I always liked the Xtreme S10s. Never quite understood what made them special compared to regular ones.

$150 for the wheels! Dang those wheel specs are perfect for what Im looking for. I hope to find such a deal.

In reply to eastsideTim :

It was designed and built mostly during covid, with campus shutdowns and limited shop access. But in general Wreck Racing tends to skew more "innovation" rather than "execution"

In reply to maschinenbau :

is there a thread on this somewhere? my attention is piqued

In reply to buzzboy :

It was pretty much a body kit and a handling package.  If you find one with a 4.3/5 speed combo, it may even include a beefier rear axle. 
 

I was really happy to get that deal on the wheels.  I think later base C4 wheels are the same size, and I see those pop up cheap pretty often, I just don't like the way they look.  They are what I'd assumed I'd have to run.  If a deal on some 17x11 GS/ZR1 wheels pop up, I may upsize.

Oh yeah, this may be the newest vehicle I've seen with an aftermarket sunroof.  I just thought they stopped being a thing by the mid-90s.

Glad you could rescue it and looking forward to turning some wrenches on the challenge build. I've got a pic of this thing being used as a shelf during the the type aRgh pick up that I'll post once I can get pics to post from this new phone. 
 

Given the amount of ants we pulled from the aRgh, the bug bomb is a great call

Pscyhed to get started on another rando build!  Gonna be YUGE!

eastsideTim said:

In reply to maschinenbau :

It's the 4.3 HO, so 190 HP.  I had considered keeping it, but even if the engine is good, I think it will get sold off and replaced.  Making additional horsepower NA is spendy, and it seems everyone who has turbo'd one goes through engines with some regularity once they turn up the boost to make the power I want to see.

If I were closer, I might have some interest in the 4.3. I have a V8 Vega that has a 262 out of a factory V8 Monza. With the aluminum intake and carb, it might make 130 HP. Nobody ever puts 4.3s in Vegas because there's no good reason to. A small block Chevy is just as easy, and if you're chasing power the 4.3 is a dead end. Because I'm weird, I'd like to do a 4.3. It'd be a power bump in stock form and it would annoy people. 

Cooper_Tired said:

Given the amount of ants we pulled from the aRgh, the bug bomb is a great call

Got lucky and have only seen one ant so far.  I suspect they were mostly eaten by the spiders that left behind the hundreds of egg sacs I vacuumed out from under the hood.  Once it is in the garage, more bug bombs will be deployed, just in case.

Had some time this morning and dug into it.  Since I could not hear the starter solenoid over all the other startup noises, the first thing I tried was jumping the pins for the starter relay.  I heard the solenoid click once, but the starter did not turn over.  Tried it a few more times, and may have heard a few weak clicks, but I am not sure.  Jacked the truck up and set it down on ramps, so I could tap the solenoid and the starter a few times, just to see if they were stuck.  No dice.  Just in case, I grabbed a breaker back and a 5/8" socket to see if the engine was locked up.  Nope, it turns fine.

Switched over to starter removal, so I could get a closer look at it on the bench.  Had to jack up the truck to remove the passenger side wheel.  Had a small panic when I found a locking lug nut, but couldn't find the key.  This is when I learned the the center console had multiple nesting compartments, like the automotive interior equivalent of a Matryoshka doll, and the key was found.  I don't recall the starter being in this bad of a position on my old S10, but maybe I yanked the engine and transmission together on it.  It took a decent amount of effort and tools to remove the solenoid wiring, and eventually the stud for it snapped anyway.  The main wire was a bit easier to remove.  Moving to the starter bolts, one was easy.  The other one, not so much.  Not enough clearance between it and the control arm mount for a socket.  Not enough room to put a full length wrench on it and actually turn it.  A stubby wrench did not provide enough leverage.  And my crows foot wrench just tried to round the bolt.  Best I can figure is there should be more room, and the engine mounts have collapsed.  If I had more time, I would have put a jack under the oil pan and seen if I could get enough room.  That may be my plan on the next session.  Might also see if anyone sells closed end crows foot wrenches.

Rather than risk a few hours of frustration at the junkyard, I may just go ahead and buy one of the cheapest starters I can find on rock auto.  That's probably about all the money I'm willing to put into it before disassembly, but I'd really like to see if the engine is good, as it'll be worth more if I have video of it running.  I'd also like to be able to take it for a quick drive to verify the transmission is okay.  I may need parts of it to frankenstein together a RWD transmission if I go with another GM engine, as most rusted out donor vehicles around here are 4x4.

A couple observations from under the truck.  It is really rusty, but it looks like at least the front part of the frame is structurally sound.  Also, someone has tried to remove the catalytic converter at some point.  It is cut in front, and at the flange behind it, so it is only holding on by an exhaust hanger and the rear O2 sensor wire.  Next time I'm under there, I should pull it and stash it in my garage, before a local entrepreneur decides to finish the job, especially since it is still up on ramps and not too hard to get to.

Finally, a quick pic of the underside.  Southerners, look upon it in terror.  Michiganders and northern Ohioans, look upon it in envy:

Sucks about the starter not coming off, and that's crazy about the cat being nearly gone. Should be worth a decent recoup

I found a way to post this finally; so here is a pic of the S10 acting as shelf when we rescued the aRgh 3 years ago 

Cool project.  I'm messing with a 99 s10, doing a LS swap.  I also have a Camaro 3800 engine as well.  Oil pan on the 3800 isn't fitting in the S10, even had to switch oil pans on the 5.3 in order to avoid cutting out a lot of the crossmember.

A 96-99 Vortec 350 would be the choice I would go with if I was doing it again, much less issues to deal with.

In reply to 81cpcamaro :

In my 92 S10, I started with doing a 305 TBI swap, and the most recent is a 6.0/4L80E swap.  I'd say the wiring for the 305 was worse than for the LS, but physically installing was less fun on the newer swap.  I used the H3 Alpha pan, still cut away a chunk of the crossmember, and had to lift the cab an inch or so to get the engine/transmission in.  The Holley pan is supposed to be a little better.  The documentation for the wiring in LS swaps on the internet is wonderful, so that part was much easier.  Also, on the 98-up ( I think) S10s, I believe Current Performance offers a plug and play harness, if you want to drop the money.  Before I bought the truck, I picked up a set of swap mounts, another H3 pan, and a set of long tube headers that were priced too cheap for me to pass up, so truck LS is pretty much the leading option for me right now.

Small block swaps are an option still, but it seems like everyone around here still thinks their SBC stuff is worth its weight in gold.

I'm kind of looking at Atlas swaps, too, but would need to make or buy a pan for the 6 cylinder, or cut out the crossmember and reinforce the frame in some other way.  The 3.7L 5 cylinder does make 241 HP stock, so it's better than a Vortec 305 and in striking distance of the 350, but that seems like doing a swap for the sake of doing a swap.  This S10 is way rougher than my 92, and while I want to keep it nominally street legal, I don't care as much about comfort or practicality, so I'm willing to hack it up quite a but to make something fit, if it'll make it fast enough.

EDIT:  Forgot to mention in the earlier post.  It looks like the rear axle does indeed have the hop shock on it, so that is nice.  Also, the shocks appear to be the original Bilsteins, which would also be nice, except that means they have almost 200K miles on them.  Probably not doing a ton of damping anymore.

I still have all those spacers i bought from you, so whatever ones you need can come back at about whatever you gave them to me for because i have not followed through with anything that needed them

eastsideTim said:

Probably not doing a ton of damping anymore.

But maybe they've degraded to the point where the oil is coming out and they could do an awesome job of dampening!

In reply to Patrick :

I may take you up on that.

It runs!  Rather loudly, since the exhaust dumps right at the end of the y-pipe.

Starter took some effort to remove, and ended up requiring a box end torque adapter extension to loosen one of the bolts.  Just got a 13mm one for this job, but might be nice to get a full set sometime.  Seems like they wouldn't be needed much, but would be really handy on some rare occasions, and I tend to collect tools designed to fit in tight locations, for some reason.  Anyway, regardless of what the solenoid had been doing, I'm pretty sure the starter had other issues:

Cleaned off the terminals, then I installed the new starter, after taking some time to figure out order of operations for the bolts.  Threw the battery back in, and after a few attempts, it started up.  Put it in reverse, and rolled it off the ramps.  Transmission seemed a little lazy, but not bad.  Then I remembered,  I don't think any of us had checked the coolant.  Shut it off and let it cool down for a few minutes.  Popped the cap, and saw this:

Not sure if that's just really bad corrosion, or if someone mixed orange and green coolant.  I poured a bit of distilled water into the radiator, did not take much for it to be topped off.  Checked pressure in the tires, and aired the worst up to 20 psi or so, and took a very short drive up and down the street.

The tires are shot, and the brakes are terrible, but the truck idles fine, and the transmission seemed to be improving as it warmed up.  I only gave it light throttle, since I actually like my neighbors.  Shifts were pretty smooth, almost too smooth.   I'll put the transmission down as "good enough to borrow guts from if we need parts".

Finally, tucked it into the garage, closed the doors, and lit off a couple more bug bombs.

Next steps:

• On the next dry day, I want to pull it back out of the garage, give the truck cap a more thorough cleaning, and post it on marketplace.  Hope it goes fast.
• Decide what to do about the engine and cooling system.  I was going to sell the engine whole, but around here, I suspect I'd be lucky to get $200 for it, and likely closer to $100.  Might be more lucrative to sell a few pieces off the top end, then scrap the bottom end.  There is a good chance the radiator will need to be used in the challenge, so flushing to get the worst of the crap out while everything is together may make sense.  If I do that, I'll see if I can rig an exhaust pipe where the catalytic converter sits, as that will probably be easier than hooking it back up on both the front and back.  If I'm going to have it running long enough for a flush to work, I want it to be quieter.  If I "fix" the exhaust, it may also make sense to insure and register it, so I can do some more testing before tearing it down.  If you give a mouse a cookie...

I may have an s10 radiator on the shelf, new, that will be cheap because i am sick of looking at piles of stuff. I definitely have some s10 of this era stuff that I would much rather pass along to you than just dump on craigslist