Suggest a classic for occasional HPDE work?

I've asked this question (kind of) over on the GRM forum, but I figured that I'll also try to get some input over here.

Basically, now that I've got the basic transport needs in the US sorted out, I'm starting to save up for a sporty car that I can also use for some HPDE driving. Chances are that it's going to be modified slightly to improve its trackability but not to the extent that it won't be driveable on the street. Maximum budget is probably around $5k-$6k and it should be kept in mind that I can't drive for toffee so I need a car to learn track driving skills in, not something that's so fast that it hides my lack of skill and talent.

My shortlist so far after some input from the GRM community:

• Miata, because it's the safe option, I've had a few and like them.
• 240Z-280Z - love the looks, never driven one.
• Toyota AE86 GT-S
• Porsche 924S - don't want a regular 944 and a 944S2 is likely to be too expensive to throw away if I bend it.
• Triumph GT6
• BMW 2002, like the looks, never driven one
• Fiat X1/9 - again, had a few in the past and wouldn't mind another one, but I wouldn't even know where to start looking for parts for one of these in the US.
• I might consider a C4 Corvette (a coupe this time) but I think I'd like something slower.
• I might also consider a 1st gen RX7 if I can find a good GSL-SE, but I've owned all generations of RX7s and while I don't terribly mind them, I'm not sure I want to buy another one at the moment.

I'd prefer a non-ragtop with a decent aftermarket support that's not too hard to find. I'd also prefer something that's not too common which of course is in stark contrast with the 'decent aftermarket support'.

Any suggestions/comments etc welcome.

He said decent aftermarket...

Tee hee.

Really I'd look at an older Mustang. Yeah I said mustang.

A.

Are you set on rear wheel drive?

Good point.

I did my race school in a fwd car. So braking was a little more critical, but rwd is so much fun.

Still if you consider FWD... Honda Civic.

Cheap to buy. Lots of aftermarket and very scalable as you develop.

The only car in your list that could be remotedly prepped for track work and stay within budget would be the Miata.

I'd love to turn my 1800ES into a track-rat, but I have no delusions about it costing anywhere close to your budget... and I'm starting with a car that I already have and has pretty much paid for itself in parts sold/used. That said, I still have reservations...

Look in the GRM and SCCA (Sportscar) classifieds. I remember seeing a number of ready to run race cars within your budget.

IMHO, a track car should be something you are comfortable driving, but have zero attachment to if/WHEN you bend it up.

bravenrace wrote: Are you set on rear wheel drive?

Yes - I don't really like FWD and that's after I've tried some of the better ones (Owned a CRX and an Integra Type R for a while).

Just to clarify the budget, that's more or less for the car on its own - I'm rapidly learning that decent vehicles are a lot more expensive over here than in the UK if you exclude new ones. I'm not planning to build a race car, at least initially, but rather a road legal vehicle that is a little safer on the track than a standard one.

For example with a Miata we'd be talking about a standard Miata with a good roll bar, new shocks, braided brake hoses, better brake pads and maybe hi-performance tires. I don't think I'll manage more than 4-5 HPDE days/year anyway due to my location so I don't really want/need a race prepped car yet.

I've owned 4 of the cars on your list, and have to agree, the Miata is the easiest to do within your price point. I wouldn't necessarily call it the most fun, as that is subjective, but prices are not and they are easy to get parts for.

To the X1/9 question, there are several places that can supply Fiat parts, including Vicks Auto and International Auto Parts, as well as others.

Here is what I would do. Go to the used car sales in your region and start browsing around. Something will jump at you that looks like fun and conforms to your wishes. It may be something right off the wall like a 4wd Justy or a Yugo or a Chevette or a Hyundai Pony. Cheers Ron

MGB GT. Later model with the 4 sync. The cars are not fast, but they are fun to drive and have a tin top.

Parts are cheap. For the most part, what they need is the suspensions rebuilt, not modified. Very simple to work on.

Brakes are up to lapping day use based on my experience as long as they are in good shape and good fluid.

195/60/14 tires fit so some decent rubber can be had.

Not going to be the fastest thing out there. Still have a classic to tool around town when not on the track. Should be able to get a car on the track for close to your budget.

In the same vein, there is the MG Midget. Much more fun on the track. The engine in a Midget actually sounds glad to be alive compared to the MGB's lump that always reminded me of the Robot in Hitchhikers guide..

Alfa GTV

Been tracking one for 15 years now. Great track car, especially with some key modifications.

And when you learn how to drive one fast, everything else is easy to drive.

Eric

Can a decent condition GTV really be had for within my budget? I'm used to good ones being a lot more expensive.

Miata, BMW 2002 or E30, Alfa (maybe a GTV6?) or second gen RX-7. A lot of the other choices on your list are not very powerful and it gets tiring doing point-bys constantly. I like momentum cars, but you really do start to feel like you're the slowest driver out there after awhile. I wouldn't start out with the Corvette or anything with that kind of power delivery.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Decent, yes. You just have to know where to look- and be paitent + opportunistic.

Sure, good ones are going for a lot right now, but solid, but needs some work examples are out there.

It just depends on how good it needs to be to start with.

For a presentable car that can be put on a track- I do belive they are out there.

Eric

Here's an example- just barely above your range (and already sold...) http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-cars-sale-wanted/172716-1974-alfa-romeo-gtv-silver-tan-91k.html

might be cheaper and easier for you to find someone who has a classic track car they're letting go, would save you the time of either repairing a poor example, stripping a nicer example, and get you on track sooner. Might be limited as you'd kinda have to take what you could get but 124s and x1/9s seem more common than some of the others...

Already dedicated 124 track cars run for about half your purchase budget, if you shop around you could get decent spares with it/upgrade parts and still have alot of $$$ for track day entrance fees and the like:

http://www.collectorcarsforsale.com/170527726585--fiat-124-spider-race-car-1608cc-scca-itc/detailse.html

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-cars-sale-wanted/153667-1975-fiat-124-spider-race-car-scca-ep-fp.html

Very true, but once you go track you can't go back.

I had to make that decision with the FIAT (which is a great track day)

I have the registration and could have built it up to street worthy, but it was cheaper to buy a trailer.

Regardless with modern tech and little tuning any car you find will be a blast.

A.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

How about a TVR? They are VERY capable track cars, and I have one for sale!

BTW, no matter what you choose, Tim, prepare yourself for the temptation of Vintage Racing.

Haven't started yet, but do have the car now- it replaces my '73 GTV that you see to the left.

Crazy how that works out.

And don't, whatever you do, even consider looking into the small bore challege series that CM/GRM help organize....

Just too many options to choose from there...

E-

Within that budget, I'd probably go with either a Miata, a Spec-E30 that somebody else is losing $ on... or an F500. Of the above, the F500 will be the cheapest to buy, cheapest to keep running, and the fastest on track. You just have to get past the leaf-blower-on-steroids sound... although with the possible 600 MC rule change on the horizon, a glorious sound may be had...

Also, not on the list is a 1st gen MR2. It may be harder than a Miata to find a decent one, but it is easier than many on the list. I built one for ITA about 10 years ago, and it is an easy car to drive, easy on brakes and tires, and a lot of fun for not much money. AND, they are now eligible for vintage racing in SVRA! Best of all, one of the nicest around shouldn't set you back much more than $3,500, if not much less!

racerdave600 wrote: Also, not on the list is a 1st gen MR2. It may be harder than a Miata to find a decent one, but it is easier than many on the list. I built one for ITA about 10 years ago, and it is an easy car to drive, easy on brakes and tires, and a lot of fun for not much money. AND, they are now eligible for vintage racing in SVRA! Best of all, one of the nicest around shouldn't set you back much more than $3,500, if not much less!

Now that sounds like a good idea to me.

For a beginner, the MG Midget makes a great track car. You can upgrade it later as you see fit.

Ron

If your under 6ft.

My 1 experience with a Midget was errr tight.

Tim if Alfa Driver can find a decent GTV for $6,000 I will take 20 of them. Maybe 3-5 years ago but unless it is a rusty mess the GTV is unavailable for that kind of money. The one in the post was a salvage title with all that could mean and is also already sold even with the salvage issues. I have heard of multiple nice cars selling for over $30,000 and saw a ratty one sell for over $20,000 at Monterey this year. The best deal on a clean title GTV I have seen this year was $9,500 on a 73 in L.A. on craigslist with syncro needs.

The 240-280z's are a neat ideal. I really like them and have owned two, a 240 and a 280. They are still cheap and have tons of parts availability. For max future value chances go with a 240Z and for nicest usability the 280Z 5 speed A/C cars are tops.

The Miata is a great and fun car to drive on track and it is close to indestructible.

Next an MGB, especially a late rubber bumper car can be found for $3,000 and it gives you $3,000 to spare to get it set nicely for track use. They are a huge value and offer a real vintage feel as does a Triumoh Spitfire for even less money then a MGB.

E30 BMW cars are neat and very durable and cheap.

Finally one of my favorites is the 924S you mentioned. it is kind of vintage and is an amazing chassis. Tons of cars available at the price you mentioned.

Just between you and me, I would go easy as far as parts are concerned. the Miata, MGB and Spitfire have tons of cheap parts available and will likely be the cheapest to run and to modify. I love both Alfa and Fiat cars but there are simply less parts options and they do cost more to buy parts for as well.

Before the huge message board war starts, dig out a moss motors or victroia british catalog and then an IAP or Vick Auto catalog and take a look at parts available and prices.

A bunch of you guys missed his 'street car' requirement. he said "also use for some HPDE" not "to be a dedicated track rat".

I am interested at some of the results. I have nothing really to add, other than I am super interested in hearing more TVR and Alfa related suggestions.