If you leave the Evo alone and it's near stock you'll learn plenty.
The car I drove belonged to a guy who had a habit of pouring money into his track cars. After I drove it he looked at me, sighed and then said "you just saved me a lot of money" he was getting ready to pour a bunch of money into the car. He told me that after seeing me drive it he knew there was a lot more in the car the way it was. We worked all day and he learned more more in those 4 sessions than he had in the previous 4 years.
You can learn in any car, the key is to tell yourself "I am not going to go fast today" then focus on the things that need work. Going fast is easy, be smooth and hit your marks. Hitting your marks and being smooth every inch of every lap is the hard part.
Assuming the location in your bio is real, Adkins Raceway and United Karting are near Pittsburgh and Baltimore, respectively. Adkins has a cool banked turn. Either track is completely sufficient for a shifter kart to blow your mind. I will admit they can be maintenance intense, but they're also maintenance friendly. You can do a top end in the time it takes to swap tires and do an oil change. Not to mention a set of full blown racing slicks is $200 instead of $1k+.
I love cars much more than karts and "get" your desire for one, but there is nothing like a shifter kart for the track. The level of physical intensity is as high as anything short of F1 or prototypes, but the level of risk is massively lowered. If that is at all an option, I would suggest giving it serious consideration.
In reply to white_fly :
Something to consider. The location is indeed correct, but OTOH Summit Point is an hour from here, both Pittsburgh and Baltimore around 2.5...
In other news, I looked at an Evo 8 today. Not that unmolested and unfortunately so slammed I to the weeds that there are no fender liners, but
Holy
Bovine
I forgot how well these things go. Car has been used as a track car before, but I think it needs better suspension - owner freely admitted that he never bothered to do something about the cheap coilovers he got the car with. Main worry other than finding and reattaching some plastic panels is that there is a knock at idle that comes from the area directly under the boost (hard) pipes, where engine and trans meet. It may well be the hard pipes pipes having a cospatial event and it goes away as soon as the idle is raised even a bit. But it doesn't exactly give me the warm fuzzies.
The other car I am really keen on (the Westfield in CT) is also not quite giving me the warm fuzzies. After looking at the roll bar pictures a bit more I don't think that I'd be comfortable driving it on the track without at least a Petty bar. I have to figure out if I want to find a local fab shop to mak the mods and all that as I'd be violating my "no projects" rule for the track car.
How about this? Already set up as a track car. Should be pretty quick as is, but if you want to go faster, put an s54 in it for an additional 100+ HP. They are amazing cars (I've owned a few).
https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/330i-sedan-hpde-car.1277575/
Saw this today on FB MktPlace https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3393540663997710/
It is $32K but maybe could be $30?
In reply to MrLittle :
Thanks for the link - while it does look interesting I'm a bit wary of the trackability of this kind of high power build. Part of the idea of getting a different car that I also like better than the S2k is to free up wrenching time, not to create more 
. I suspect something like this probably needs more care and feeding than I'm looking for.
In other news, I'm also trying to figure out if am willing to buy something "blind" or not. With the 'rona out of the bottle and cases in a bunch of states around here either surging or barely under control (plus living in a county that doesn't exactly come out at the top when it comes to access to medical care) makes me a bit wary of randomly visiting people to check out their cars.
Jumping in late in the thread, but I'm currently saving up for a Toyobaru as a street + track car, being a very logical choice. But it sounds like you want something more special that can compete with a motorcycle in driving experience. Has anyone mentioned a Turbo Exocet yet? Uses mostly Miata parts, and you could build it yourself for a lot less than $30k, or write a bit less than $30k in cheques and have one delivered to you running, and it's about as close to a sportbike experience as you can get on 4 wheels.
I am going to say this again, and again.... Unless you have the time to race at least once a month you should not own a race car. Rent it! The price of a Spec Miata rental, or a SCCA SpecRacer rental a few times a year is peanuts compared to buy in and trailer,repairs, and time stress over preparation. Also gives the opportunity to try different platforms. For drivers school, and regional level racing it will usually give you 1 on 1 with a decent team mate too.
TurnerX19 said:
I am going to say this again, and again.... Unless you have the time to race at least once a month you should not own a race car. Rent it! The price of a Spec Miata rental, or a SCCA SpecRacer rental a few times a year is peanuts compared to buy in and trailer,repairs, and time stress over preparation. Also gives the opportunity to try different platforms. For drivers school, and regional level racing it will usually give you 1 on 1 with a decent team mate too.
That's a very good point - I'm trying to get back to going to the track about once a month, but am not there yet. I've pretty much buried the idea of a full-on race car for now, anything I'm considering would be street cars with some modification potential. I'm still considering a Seven or an Evo, although for some reason some more classic trackable cars have also made an appearance on the radar again. Pretty much all of those cars are car models I'm already familiar with (and more importantly, know where to get parts from, even if they have to come from Europe).
GameboyRMH said:
Jumping in late in the thread, but I'm currently saving up for a Toyobaru as a street + track car, being a very logical choice. But it sounds like you want something more special that can compete with a motorcycle in driving experience. Has anyone mentioned a Turbo Exocet yet? Uses mostly Miata parts, and you could build it yourself for a lot less than $30k, or write a bit less than $30k in cheques and have one delivered to you running, and it's about as close to a sportbike experience as you can get on 4 wheels.
I did briefly consider an Exocet (and yes, one had been mentioned earlier in the thread). My main concern with them is that I don't really have the time to build one myself if I want to go on the track sometime this year, and it being a kit car, I'm somewhat concerned that I'd end up taking it apart "jst in case" if I ended buying a pre-built one.
A Toyobaru is still on the radar, there is one for sale not too far away that has a Sprintex supercharger, which would alleviate some of the "needs moar powar" issues.
Still mostly thinking about a street legal Seven, but I made the mistake of poking my head into the PCA classifieds. No, not a Cayman S HPDE car for $15k (which unsurprisingly enough needs a new motor). There are a couple of 944 turbos and 968s, plus a 911SC that's just over my budget. I may have to send out some emails.
I thought of this thread today while watching a Fifth Gear YouTube segment where they ran an elimination death match test with a Radical, Atom and Caterham.
Track laps between the Caterham and Atom showed the Caterham being so darty and loose and the Atom just hung in there and laid down power with abundant traction.
A Lotus 7 variant is one of the most rewarding, terrifying and fun track toys out there. Real Cat's drive very well but are incredibly sensitive to alignment spec's. Westfields and Birken's are probably the same but I haven't wheeled either of those. LoCost examples which are mostly "book" built cars, depending on the shock/spring package can be very compliant on-track and some rival the factory built cars. Others are scary just pushing it around the paddock or loading/unloading off the trailer. There is some scary stuff out there. Many LoCost cars are built by very detail oriented individuals with the skills and resources to pull off a first class build. I just did a cage on a LoCost for a gentleman who is an engineer and machinist. Book chassis, K24 power and an absolute rocket to drive.
I was lucky enough to drive and Exocet years ago and was quite impressed(Turbo 1.8). Felt like it was 1/2 way between a Miata and a 7, which it probably is weight wise. Great handling and with 190+hp, it went very, very well. If I didn't have numerous projects already and a severe case of automotive ADHD, I would consider an Exocet build.
Good Luck in your search.
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:
A Toyobaru is still on the radar, there is one for sale not too far away that has a Sprintex supercharger, which would alleviate some of the "needs moar powar" issues.
The only thing a Sprintex supercharger on a twin is going to "alleviate" is the ability for the block to hold oil with a piston-sized hole in it. Every FI BRZ used for track work, eventually spins the #4 rod bearing or sends one of the aluminum foil rods through the side of the block. Of course, unless you have a built engine, which I suspect is not something you are looking to do.
If you want to track a twin, leave it NA, add an oil cooler...........then wheels/tires/suspension/brakes/safety items as you feel necessary.
Our autocross club has two exocets, last season one was running a 1.8 NA and the other was a turbo (cant remember if 1.8 or 1.6). The NA one was faster, which I chalk up to better shocks and tires. (Tires were American Racers and I cant remember for sure, but I think the shocks were xidas). It was always in the FTD hunt and I did get to drive it a few times. The miata good manners carry over, it does what you want it to do and is fairly telepathic. The AR tires had their own quirk of high slip angle, but price per grip would make me do it myself if it were my car. They did put a removable steering wheel on it that makes getting in and out really easy.
The stock miata engine blew and I think its getting a 4cyl with forced induction thats not mazda based.
The exocet feels less cramped than a miata. There are a few reasons I would go for one of them over a caterham for track days and one of the biggies is there being more room in case of a crash. More area that can crumple before you crumple. An added bonus is ease of swapping a WIDE variety of engines in (miata, V8, honda K, ecotec, etc). Miata aftermarket parts support, if something breaks, theres a BIG chance that theres a spare part somewhere in the paddock and it will be cheaper than caterham or whatever parts.
In reply to Apexcarver :
One concern I have about the Exocet is that it'll mostly be a kit car, and thus a project for me. I'm trying to staying away from projects right now.
And yes, that probably means that I should stay away from Caterfields as well.
Both guys I know who got one picked them up on the used market and just set about making it nicer.
I get what you are saying about projects and kit cars, but the reason I would say that the exocet is a bit of an exception is that its almost all miata parts and its even easier to work on than a miata because of increased accessibility.
I'm an Evo fanboy...drove many 1st and 2nd gen models in Europe in the '90s. Owned a 3rd gen (Evo VIII GSR) for many years. No points for guessing where by username comes from :)
I can't speak for the Evo X, as that's one model I haven't yet driven. But the rest absolutely will NOT mask poor driving. They're very responsive and neutral: very "mechanical" feeling if you know what I mean. They have no traction or stability control. They absolutely will slide around under you. There's a finesse to driving them on the limit and it's VERY rewarding. Quite different from something like an R35 GT-R if that's what you're worried about.
What's tricky about them is that people in America don't seem to know how to drive and maintain them. They need regular fluid changes to keep the diffs and transfer case alive. Drag launches with racing clutches will burn up the transmission and center diff. The engine needs to be warmed up before you start running around on full boost. You have to resist the urge to "these go to eleven" with the boost controller. So, you really need to know the history of the particular car you want.
I don't want to open up a huge can of worms, but you can also look into importing a 1st gen (Evo I to III) model as they're now over 25 years old. They're very compact and light: about the same size and weight as an E30. The engines make a bit less power than later Evos, but they'll be familiar to any shop that works on DSM or Galant VR4 models. An Evo III feels like an E30 M3 with twice the power and thrice the torque. And, unlike later models, they're true homologation specials ... which is always cool.
Finally, consider the "RS" version of any model you're looking at. They tend to have closer gear ratios and more track-oriented diffs. The US-market Evo VIII RS (sold in 2004 only IIRC) came with a locking front diff, no ABS, and no A/C for example. Better starting point for a track/race project car.
In reply to LanEvo :
SHHHHHH. I don't need the prices going up anymore. It's hard enough to find a clean E 1-3 anyways. 
I want to grab one when I can go test drive a few. Of course.....by then the E4 will be available.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
This is just your weekly reminder to drive a damn shifter kart.
Looks like an Evo is the front runner.
As mentioned previously I love Exocets but they really are a car one tends to trailer to events
A BRZ or FRS would be the easy button but it's going to come down to can you be satisfied with that level of car. While I tend to love momentum cars, I'm also keenly aware they are not everyone's cup of tea.
Tom1200 said:
Looks like an Evo is the front runner.
Excellent news. Couple of us have said EVO from the beginning to OP's needs :)
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
Well, the Evo might be the front runner if I could find one that's actually in decent shape for decent money. Most of the ones I have found in reasonable distance appear to have had the E36 M3 beaten out of them and are very much again in "project" territory. I don't really want an Evo X as the ergonomics don't suit me, and 8s & 9s around here seem to be mostly running on hopium.
Right now the list is looking something like this:
- Caterham/Westfield/Birkin. I've got a lead on a few decent ones, the big issue is that other than a certain local Rotus project, none of them are local-ish enough. The closest Caterhams I'm considering are in Maine and NC. And Colorado, which we all know is just around the corner from WV.
- Porsche 944S2/Turbo/968 - there are some surprisingly nice ones in reasonable distance, but the main issue is maintenance. At least they appeal less to 18 year olds who can barely afford to pay for the car. OTOH, old German car.
- Evo - yes, I'm looking. I've considered a JDM import one, the main concern I have with those is around fuel quality (Japan has up to 100 octane, and a lot of cars are mapped for that if they're modded). OTOH the importers seem to generally have decent quality cars.
- Frisbie - they're also either too beat or too expensive for my liking, same as Evos. I did like the ones I've driven, though, and I've nearly bought one several times by now.
The other concern I have is the current unpleasantness that's going on so I'm not sure I should be traveling much to look at cars. I am considering getting something to tide me over and then continue looking when things improve. Worst case I could keep pouring money into the S2k, but I don't really want to modify it that much.
I should also mention that I have spent a lot more time than I'd like trying to prep and photograph the S2k to try and get it on BaT or Cars and Bids. Unfortunately I hate most of the photos I take so it's been dragging out forever.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
I sold 2 during Covid on BAT. Another should Sell tomorrow. I have been getting top top dollar. I did 3 videos each and 200 photos each. Prep time for me is 3 hours to clean car, 3 hours for photo+ video .
Good luck with the s2k sale.
I finally decided to put my 07 s2k (am original owner) under 10 k mile for sale. I am going to put it out around October, as I am in the middle of another investment property purchase.
Tons of clean 1 owner, non modded, even some certified Evo around me. But of course I can see travel being an issue
good luck !
