Car for sale unless we can come up with a title solution

John Welsh said:

#HappyToNotLiveInPA

This does seem to be one of the worst cross-state transfer scenarios possible- PA is weird and picky, MD is weird and picky.

If it's already got a PA title, then yes both buyer and seller's signature need to be notarized.

For out of state transfers, PA goes by whatever the requirements are of the state currently titled in. From Maryland MVA's website:

"

Is a Notary or a “Bill of Sale” Needed?

You will need a notary, witnessing both the buyer(s) and seller(s) signatures, if you present a bill of sale to complete your transaction. On the “Maryland Certificate of Title” there is a space for the purchase price, and you will not need a bill of sale, unless the vehicle is 7 years old or newer and the vehicle is being sold for less than the book value.

• A notarized MVA Bill of Sale​ (form # VR-181) is needed if the sale price is less than the vehicle’s book value and the vehicle is 7 years old or newer. Please call the MVA’s Customer Service Center at 1-410-768-7000 to verify the vehicle’s book value.
• A notarized MVA “Bill of Sale” is not needed if the vehicle’s sale price is more than the vehicle’s book value or the vehicle is over 7 years old.
• If a notarized “Bill of Sale” is not presented and the purchase price of the vehicle is within $500 of the retail value as shown in the National Publication of Used Car Values, MVA will accept the purchase price as completed on the title."

As I read that, since I assume the vehicle is over 7 years old, a notarized signature is not required by MD, ergo PA does not require the notary stamp either. Caveat, not sure if the salvage certificate affects that in any way. I'd go back to the notary armed with that information. I find they're usually pretty helpful, but sometimes you need to educate them a bit when attempting anything outside the norm.

Just last week I ran into a similar snag on the Civic I bought with an AZ title (seller had just moved to MD), first time I've ever had to get an out of state title notarized. Didn't realize AZ was a notary state, fortunately the seller and his dad were super helpful and we were able to get it sorted pretty quickly after a lot of additional running around. Bought a KLR250 out of MD earlier this year though and no notary required. 

Can he go to MD and get the MD title transferred to his name?  Once it's in his name how would PA handle it?  If they still require BoS then it's easy to sell to a PA friend then back. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

John Welsh said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

So,  a MD rule was not followed?

That makes it hard and your solution might not come in PA but rather your solution might come from a "friendly" MD notary. 

No, a PA rule wasn't followed.  PA requires that branded titles have the bill of sale notarized regardless of where they come from.  My nephew didn't read the rules before he left with the car, and the seller won't respond.

Well crap, that might be a bit of a snag then. 

Thinking creatively, does the name on the BOS need to match the name on the salvage certificate?

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Gotcha, didn't figure the tax implications on that. I might've been able to help otherwise.

Sounds like you have a challenge G35 courtesy of your newphew, then will sell it to someone in Florida at the challenge in order to buy it back from them, to then get the title notarized in FL to take back to PA to resell to your newphew. 

Don't the canoes always advertise fake IDs?  Get one in the sellers name with your picture.  Do some things with it that we shouldn't discuss openly and problem solved.

I've sold MD cars to people in PA with no issue as the buyer signature needs to be notarized not the seller (but it sounds like salvage title is different).

I'd try a few things, one is going to a different PA tag place and playing dumb, as in don't point out the branded title.  the second would be go to a MD tag place and get a MD title in his name with the PA address (I know this can 100% be done).  You are titling the car, not registering it.

I just stopped in at my local DMV notary to ask.

If it were a clean title, you are correct that it does not need a notary at all.  Since it is a branded title, it does need the notary stamp on the bill of sale.  

I may have to do the challenge thing, but he's 18 and just blew his wad on a car.  He's broke and walking to work so he either needs to get this one titled or sell it and find another car.

Steve_Jones said:

I've sold MD cars to people in PA with no issue as the buyer signature needs to be notarized not the seller (but it sounds like salvage title is different).

I'd try a few things, one is going to a different PA tag place and playing dumb, as in don't point out the branded title.  the second would be go to a MD tag place and get a MD title in his name with the PA address (I know this can 100% be done).  You are titling the car, not registering it.

Right, but the rub here is that he has to have the enhanced inspection first before they will issue a title.  The inspection stations are a little closer to PennDOT's belt and they won't do it.  My neighbor is even one of those inspection techs and he won't touch it as a favor to me.  He said he'd lose his job in a day as soon as he scanned the paperwork and someone at the main office saw it.  He was my first stop, but that's a dead end.

Critique on the FBM ad.  

Picture #2 & 3 look like a car broken down on the side of the road and are generally contradictory to the idea of "runs great" .  

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

How much does he have into the car?  Can it be parted out for the same or more?

I would be surprised if in this or any other universe someone would pay $5000 for that car without a title.  Only decent course of action at this point is something in a legal gray area.  

Is the title signed to him, or blank with a seller signature?

Mr_Asa said:

Vermont title?

Or NH bill of sale/title.

I'm yer huckleberry.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

But you don't want a title, you want a salvage certificate.  So that you can get the enhanced inspection, and then a branded title. 

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

That is true in NH as well. My Golf is salvage.

With all the people on this board, doesn't some one know a notary in MD? Either a quick road trip or use an overnight shipping service with the paperwork and a nice gift card to a local eatery. That seems to be the answer. I know around here (MA) everything is supposed to be witnessed but very often as long as the notary knows one of the parties they will look the other way if both can't be there in person. Just sayin', might be worth a shot.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

if you and your nephew went to the PA notary I think you might come out OK , 

being an 18 year old kid by himself  is not helping....

Good Luck

Surely someone in grm land knows a notary that can help out this young man no questions asked for a beer 

I learned a bit about this when I was looking at a govt seized car... practically new vehicle with about 3000 miles for sale at an independent used car dealer.  And THAT is what you need, a small dealer that "does this all the time".  It might cost you a few hundred but these guys usually have a title clerk that knows how to work the system, they might even get the inspection done (for a price).  I don't know about PA, but when I talked to the Ohio BMV it didn't sound possible.  The dealer was in Northern Kentucky and said they convert (I didn't ask how) the "red" (salvage?) title to a KY rebuilt title and "Ohio doesn't like it but there's nothing they can do about it" and then it gets an Ohio rebuilt title.

I've got a sympathetic notary on this side of the state, but I'm not sure how much he could help. 

Have a friend in MD retitle the car in their name, and pay the tax and title fees. Now you have a fresh MD title (that is still a Salvage title) in the name of someone you trust and who will work with you. Nephew and your friend go to a notary, get the required paperwork, and then your nephew goes and titles the car in PA. All of this clean and legal and properly documented. Nephew will have to pay an extra round of taxes and title and notary fees.

I'd try a few different notaries, if not I could use a challenge car.  

I would also try not presenting the Bill of sale information. 

In reply to Uncle David (Forum Supporter) :

It's why I asked if the title is filled out or blank.