Factory Five design contest thread

Here's a lil something I did using paint & the template .... just a rough draft for now ....

4cylndrfury wrote:

Javelin wrote: How should I "muscle up" the rear?

Im thinking you should make the rear a little taller and meet the roll bar at more of an angle. It looks like a little like an afterthought right now (thats why I really liked the fastback/stingray approach of the blue one). And after looking at the front again, if the air dam were a little lower, allowing the front opening to be a little bigger, I think it would improve the look. But I agree, I see 914 all over that design...again, IMHO, thats a good thing

Hey, thanks! I will do up a version 2.0 with that in mind! It will be 2 weeks though, as I have a seriously radical one for next week.

Javelin wrote: Okay, seriously? I try to get an actual submission commented on, but nobody is going to read the thread anymore thanks to this stark raving lunatic. UFO's? Dogs playing frisbee? Adidas girls ads? I mean come on, is this a serious contest thread or a joke?

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I've banned said user. (And if you think his posts are bad, you should see the emails he's sending me.)

Sorry I haven't been as active on the board as I'd like to be over the last few days; I was out of the office for some event activity. I'm back in the office for the next week and a half, so I'll keep an eye out.

Tom Heath wrote:

Javelin wrote: Okay, seriously? I try to get an actual submission commented on, but nobody is going to read the thread anymore thanks to this stark raving lunatic. UFO's? Dogs playing frisbee? Adidas girls ads? I mean come on, is this a serious contest thread or a joke?

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I've banned said user. (And if you think his posts are bad, you should see the emails he's sending me.) Sorry I haven't been as active on the board as I'd like to be over the last few days; I was out of the office for some event activity. I'm back in the office for the next week and a half, so I'll keep an eye out.

THANK YOU!!!

There was something oddly artistic about the posts themselves with all the doodles and pics and the random English phrases interspersed with the Cyrillic stuff. Unfortunately for him, the thread is not about mad self-expression. It's about design submissions. Good poster material though. Reminds me of printing makeready.

Preliminary concept "Flo" created from sketches by my 7-year old son.

It is designed to be simple, clean, and yet a bit differentiated. And he required me to make it some variant of red.

Thoughts anyone?

-Reload

In reply to Tom Heath:

It might be good to make a new thread wherein the first post has everyone who has submitted designs in this thread, by name. Just so we can see where we're at. Sort of a fresh start, ya know? My design is unanimously disliked - even by my PARENTS - but I at least would like to continue with it, just for the exercise really.

In reply to Reload:

I really like this, as I am way into the more clean, simple designs. Needless vents and stuff look cool, but just add expense and drag. My biggest complaint is that the sidebar makes it look too much like the Smart Roadster.

Hi all! no more time to modify the model but time overnight for process render queue. Here's my 818 in Gulf livery..bye all!!

Typecast_wookie wrote: My design is unanimously disliked - even by my PARENTS - but I at least would like to continue with it, just for the exercise really.

Actually, I quite liked your design, both where it was and where it is headed. Simple is nice, a goofy bubble roof line is not a bad thing. The low front transitioning into a high roof gave it a sort of a "livable Stratos" feeling to me. (Not everyone is willing to live with being contorted into a wad-o-human and feeling up the passenger in order to shift.)

In reply to dculberson:

Hahaha, thanks - the bubble cockpit bums everyone out, but I drive a 510 and a 3G prelude 4ws - both of which have amazing visibility and low beltlines - so I always end up screaming "IT'S FOR VISIBILITY! I'M NOT RAISING THE BELTLINE DAMNIT!" and stamp out of the room. Then I go cry in the shower.

I'm building a 3D model of it right now, and it's not nearly as awkward as my sketches are - but it still sorta looks like a wedge of cheese with a soap bubble sticking off the top.

Targa / Roadster front I like the rear on this yellow one, its got that muscular look, kinda intimidating.

Targa / Roadster rear

In reply to Typecast_wookie:

Hmm, I had never seen the Smart Roadster before. I'll have to think about whether I can address this. Thanks!

Reload wrote: Preliminary concept "Flo" created from sketches by my 7-year old son. It is designed to be simple, clean, and yet a bit differentiated. And he required me to make it some variant of red. Thoughts anyone? -Reload

I like it, but I will echo the blade = SMART issue.

In reply to tuna55:

Hey Reload, That is a nice design. Yes, it has a very similar element to the Smart Roadster but that theme has been around for years before Smart did their version so don't just drop it because of a little criticism. At least your version is fresh and much clearer than the Smart, which is kind of just a paint scheme and not really very well done. On the other hand, your body forms are outta control, like the front fender profile which really doesn't work with the front wheel opening. The FF graphics are really heavy handed....

Dave Smith finally admits it's a design competition AND a concept competition. The concept has to fit the design; so I think we should start with the design. What do you say we design the fastest possible car, and let the concept fit itself to it? What attributes make a bleeping fast car?

If I could draw, I would. My attempt at CAD was an equally miserable failure. I, like all of you want this car to both turn heads and crank out some awe-inspiring numbers. So here is my submission:

THINGS WE CAN INFLUENCE IN THE DESIGN STAGE:

Mass Centralization means the vehicle can turn quicker with less force at the wheels. (component placement)

A Lower Center of Gravity means the vehicle is more stable in the turns, and can go from a left turn to a right turn quicker. (component placement)

Aerodynamics affects the amount of energy needed to push the car through the air. Also affects traction and handling. This may be one of the most important factors. For any given shape (drag), when you double the speed, you quadruple the force (horsepower) needed to keep moving at same speed. (concept - what shape is the air going to see, and how does that change at different speeds? Does the shape create usable downforce?)

THINGS WE CANNOT AFFECT (BUT FACTORY FIVE CAN):

Reducing Rotational Energy means quicker acceleration and better throttle response, as less energy is invested into spinning moving parts. (engine and transmission design, and tire/wheel choices)

Chassis Rigidity means the car will brake, turn and accelerate more predictably, and lets the suspension do its job better: keeping the wheels firmly and evenly planted on the ground. (chassis design / materials)

Reducing Vehicle Weight means quicker acceleration and braking. (component choice and materials)

Minimizing Un-sprung Weight means the suspension will be more responsive. (tire / wheel choices and suspension design)

Brakes: Many Americans completely forget about brakes. (Oh yeah. Gotta stop sometimes. Might wanna put some brakes on it.) The pedal on the right (MORE POWER) is the only one they are familiar with. But if your car can stop faster, you can wait longer before braking and still hit the beginning of the turn at the highest possible speed while still maintaining traction. Braking a tenth of a second later on each turn on a ten-turn course makes you a second faster. ON. EVERY. LAP. THIS is why the "lower powered" Lotus is so fast around the track. They perfected their brakes and handling.

WHAT I WOULD DO IF I HAD ANY INFLUENCE AT F5R (but not that you care.)

I'm so glad Dave told us the driver silhouette was sitting on the gas tank. That's the first thing I would change. I would lower the seating position and move it forward. We have a LOT of weight in the back with this design. Can we fit the gas tank under the engine? Behind the seats (outside the firewall)? Or maybe the center tunnel is the best place for it? One may not like the idea of being so close to a tank of flammable liquid, but if a crash is bad enough to damage the center tunnel, you probably have more important things to worry about.

We should talk about the radiator(s). They're heavy, and they're filled with water. Water weights 8.5 pounds per gallon. If we put the radiator in front, we have to add tubing (weight) and water to fill the tubing (more weight). By putting them in the front, we've also significantly affected the aerodynamics. My thoughts: place the radiator(s) just forward of the rear axle, mounted horizontally; with side intake, and rear deck exhaust. Maybe have the radiator on one side, and the intercooler on the other?

Regarding aerodynamics, specifically downforce, most street cars have aerodynamic lift, as the air moves over the car faster (longer distance) than under the car (shorter distance). Obviously, we can't funnel the air under the car (for the Venturi effect.) Moving it to the sides seems best. Adding air dams and rear diffusers would also improve downforce (without trashing the aerodynamics with a rear spoiler.)

Regarding aerodynamics, I would also include an active rear air brake. This would require second master cylinder, a second brake booster, and a slave cylinder under the rear deck. The slave cylinder would raise a wide wing proportional to brake pedal movement. The wing would slow the car without heating the brakes or using any available traction AND should actually increase rear wheel downforce during braking. Maybe adds $500 to the cost, and a little weight, but this could really improve performance.

And for what it's worth, that's my $0.02

In reply to bromikl:

I'm not sure if you meant that to come across as snide and arrogant, but it reads that way to me.

I realize you're new around here and maybe you're only here for the contest, but we typically use our manners (unless it's about politics) and treat folks with a bit of respect. Especially when they are offering a rather large sum of money to the winner.

In reply to olpro:

The FF logo can easily be downplayed. The front fender and headlights are very much a work in progress. Can you give me more detail around the comment "the front fender profile ... doesn't work with the front wheel opening". Are you referring to a lack of wheel travel in the suspension? The headlight cutout?

I posted this early as I noticed some design similarities to others. And I didn't want them to think I was copying. I am not an industrial designer or automotive specialist. Just a guy with a drawing package, so I am learning as I go.

Thanks, Reload

Hi all again! I have been quite busy lately but I managed to find time to work on my design, but for now I can only show you the front render, I have the rear almost decided so that will be the next step.

This one is yellow but I have tried it in green, red, blue and orange so if anybody wants to see any other color just tell me.

After I finish with the rear I am going to work on a more track oriented version of this car, but for now this is all! Tell me what you think of it please, thanks!

Damn xabier, that 818 is really looking hot!

Looks great xabier, the only crit I have(since first seeing your design and now seeing the render) is that it appears that you have a much shallower slope to the surface of the headlights then they actually are. Thats it, other than that good job...

oohhh also, add some structure to your A pillar the smae way you did with the C pillar and roll bar.

Rotr8 wrote: Looks great xabier, the only crit I have(since first seeing your design and now seeing the render) is that it appears that you have a much shallower slope to the surface of the headlights then they actually are. Thats it, other than that good job... oohhh also, add some structure to your A pillar the smae way you did with the C pillar and roll bar.

I think you mean that the part where the lights are located is more inclinated than it was, it´s possible many little changes have been made in order to make it more realistic or producible, and also practical (targa top). Well, I think the A pillar is okay this way, I think it is quite strong, just like the rest of spyders, but I decided to leavi it in black, this way looks more unnoticeable.

By the way, fantastic rendering skills you have Rotr8, I was amazed when I saw your designs! keep it up!

xabier- Your design is clearly one of the best. Very nice. I like the simplicity of the form. We might tend to forget just how small this car really is--Miata small. Trying to do too much or cram in too many design elements might look cartoonish. Your clean design avoids clutter.
If I was to provide one constructive comment it would be that the nose is a bit high and full -- almost looking front engined. I think if you drop the nose slope between the fenders slighly it would give the balanced look of a mid-engined car. Overall great job.

Reload wrote: "Can you give me more detail around the comment "the front fender profile ... doesn't work with the front wheel opening".

The side view profile of the fender (top edge) should probably crest AT the front wheel opening, not way behind.

Argo1 wrote: xabier- Your design is clearly one of the best. Very nice.... Your clean design avoids clutter.

I agree, and (aside from mine ) this is my favorite submission, by leaps and bounds.

Leonardo da Vinci said: Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication

I think your design captures this perfectly. Clean, and uncluttered, your concept embodies purpose, and I like that a lot!