I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm calling this post BS.

Here is the data.  Go divide the number of wells developed per year by the number of rigs.  You ever been to a rig site?  Want me to tell you how to start a rotary drill rig?

https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/rig-counts-and-wells-drilled-by-year
 

Each rig drills multiple wells a year, a lot of them.  They are highly portable.  Each rig is typically on a well pad for a few weeks and then they disassemble and move to the next pad.  Like I said.  I've seen it.  You pulled numbers out of your.....

TX is having rolling blackouts this summer.  Would you like to talk to my friends and former neighbors experiencing it?  
 

Nice job denying the near grid collapse that occurred during Uri too.  There is a huge difference between renewable power and reliable power.  You need enough reliable power for the bad days.  Most places do not have it now.

       So rights, permits, etc.  just take a few moments?   
     I'm calling BS. 
     Yes Texas wasn't prepared.  But Elon Musk is helping them in that regard.  
  Go down to the Tesla Giga Factory where they are building the 1.2 million already ordered Cyber trucks.  On site they are putting the first megapac  in. 
  That has enough reserve capacity to run a sizeable city. 
     As more are available more will go in.  

In reply to Tom1200 :

I hope this isn't blue sky. One battery firm claims their battery will go 651 miles and can be recharge in 6 minutes. 
       Also I'd expect to see more sodium Ion battery's in stationary use.    Sodium is right next to lithium on the periodic chart.  And would me much cheaper to produce.     The other advantage it offers is longer life. 
     The trade offs won't make it viable in cars but stationary sites?   

frenchyd said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm calling this post BS.

Here is the data.  Go divide the number of wells developed per year by the number of rigs.  You ever been to a rig site?  Want me to tell you how to start a rotary drill rig?

https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/rig-counts-and-wells-drilled-by-year
 

Each rig drills multiple wells a year, a lot of them.  They are highly portable.  Each rig is typically on a well pad for a few weeks and then they disassemble and move to the next pad.  Like I said.  I've seen it.  You pulled numbers out of your.....

TX is having rolling blackouts this summer.  Would you like to talk to my friends and former neighbors experiencing it?  
 

Nice job denying the near grid collapse that occurred during Uri too.  There is a huge difference between renewable power and reliable power.  You need enough reliable power for the bad days.  Most places do not have it now.

       So rights, permits, etc.  just take a few moments?   
     I'm calling BS. 
     Yes Texas wasn't prepared.  But Elon Musk is helping them in that regard.  
  Go down to the Tesla Giga Factory where they are building the 1.2 million already ordered Cyber trucks.  On site they are putting the first megapac  in. 
  That has enough reserve capacity to run a sizeable city. 
     As more are available more will go in.  

You are calling BS on factual almanac data over several years without posting any evidence yourself?  Would you like to check the monthly data in World Oil too?  
 

I'd tell you what I think of your E36 M3 evidentiary production skills but this forum would implode in rage.  
 

Your lack of logic and inability to produce evidence to support your claims says a lot about society today.  People literally are going incapable of processing any evidence that goes against the media narrative.  And in case you didn't know it the people on TV know jack squat about anything except how to read lies with a smile on their face.  
 

NPC meme is valid.  This is proof.  

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

It's only because he doesn't know how to copy and paste. 

ddavidv said:

Lots of fanatical praise about Tesla. I offer a contrary opinion. And, to be fair, I actually like the product and would consider one aside from the following.

Teslas are horrible to get parts for. They weren't great pre-pandemic and aren't any better now. Waiting 6 months for a taillight is inexcusable.

If you crash your Tesla they will want you to take it to a 'certified Tesla repair shop' or Tesla body shop. The labor rates are often nearly double what every other body shop charges. Putting a bumper or quarter panel on a Tesla isn't any different than any other car, but it costs more because, Tesla. 

Try to get repair information from Tesla if you aren't one of the above places. Ain't happening.

The 'low cost to maintain' only applies when the car isn't needing work. When it does, you will pay more. Or your insurance company will, which means ultimately you will. 

I like the product but strongly dislike the company.

Tesla needs to work on their parts distribution system. I read an article a few weeks ago about a Tesla Service Center that had about five of the old Tesla Roadsters sitting in a lot beside the building. Some missing parts. Some half covered with tarps. The guy in the article walked in and tried to buy one, only to find out they were not for sale. After a bit of hemming and hawing the manager admitted these were parts cars. My friend who has the Tesla that needed a motor was somewhat upset that she was getting a used motor for a replacement instead of a new one, even though she was willing to pay cash in advance. I am willing to bet that this motor came from a "parts car" too. 

Ford and GM have an advantage over Tesla here. Their system is already in place and has been for years. They just have to add EV parts to the mix.

They also have a shortage of technicians who can fix EVs which helps create those six month wait times and high prices for repairs. They just have to train more technicians. Having independent EV repair shops around would help as well. Disgruntled Tesla employees could set up their own shops across the street with their own parts cars.

Both parts distribution and technician availability are problems that are fixable over time. 

The new Tesla 2 does look interesting as cheaper runabout for around town, or with some Konis and thicker sway bars, a killer autocross car. But these will be made in China. All bets are off if the Chinese start flying their fighters over Taiwan. Lets hope Elon can build these in Mexico if he needs to.

racerfink said:

The electric motors are not in water, they run pumps and mixers.

BTW, when I was big into running 1/24th scale slot cars (national level), the big thing to do was break your motor in (seating the brushes on the comm) by running it while it soaked in a glass of milk.  There's a big difference between AC and DC motors, and what applications they're better suited for.

I remember messing with old Aurora HO slot cars back in the day. Upgrade the brushes. More powerful magnets. Rewind the armature with more expensive wire. Buy all your hop up parts by mail order from Auto World. Thanks, Oscar!

This could be the future of hot rod shops. Tuning 20 year old Teslas like giant slot cars. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

ddavidv said:

Lots of fanatical praise about Tesla. I offer a contrary opinion. And, to be fair, I actually like the product and would consider one aside from the following.

Teslas are horrible to get parts for. They weren't great pre-pandemic and aren't any better now. Waiting 6 months for a taillight is inexcusable.

If you crash your Tesla they will want you to take it to a 'certified Tesla repair shop' or Tesla body shop. The labor rates are often nearly double what every other body shop charges. Putting a bumper or quarter panel on a Tesla isn't any different than any other car, but it costs more because, Tesla. 

Try to get repair information from Tesla if you aren't one of the above places. Ain't happening.

The 'low cost to maintain' only applies when the car isn't needing work. When it does, you will pay more. Or your insurance company will, which means ultimately you will. 

I like the product but strongly dislike the company.

Tesla needs to work on their parts distribution system. I read an article a few weeks ago about a Tesla Service Center that had about five of the old Tesla Roadsters sitting in a lot beside the building. Some missing parts. Some half covered with tarps. The guy in the article walked in and tried to buy one, only to find out they were not for sale. After a bit of hemming and hawing the manager admitted these were parts cars. My friend who has the Tesla that needed a motor was somewhat upset that she was getting a used motor for a replacement instead of a new one, even though she was willing to pay cash in advance. I am willing to bet that this motor came from a "parts car" too. 

Ford and GM have an advantage over Tesla here. Their system is already in place and has been for years. They just have to add EV parts to the mix.

They also have a shortage of technicians who can fix EVs which helps create those six month wait times and high prices for repairs. They just have to train more technicians. Having independent EV repair shops around would help as well. Disgruntled Tesla employees could set up their own shops across the street with their own parts cars.

Both parts distribution and technician availability are problems that are fixable over time. 

The new Tesla 2 does look interesting as cheaper runabout for around town, or with some Konis and thicker sway bars, a killer autocross car. But these will be made in China. All bets are off if the Chinese start flying their fighters over Taiwan. Lets hope Elon can build these in Mexico if he needs to.

That's the reason  the new Gigs factory is being built in Mexico.  ( North American Free trade agreement) 

   Tesla has order 4 million sets of parts for the Model 2  2 million to Mexico , 1 million to China and i million to Berlin.  
 The market for these priced cars is estimated at 700 million cars. Tesla expects to build 400 million of them.  
  With regard to repairs?    You may very well be right.  Although none of them around here have a single complaint.  I suspect a good portion of that is because of the self driving feature  that applies brakes when it detects an obstacle. Maybe that's the reason for the low cost of collision insurance?  
  I suspect the Tesla  isn't high on the car theft listing? 

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

 He's right I have limited skills. I can't cut and paste.   
     Here's what I think I know about the oil discovery business.  Please correct me where I'm wrong.  
    Geologists have maps of underground terrain.   If they see an area where they suspect a lake of oil may be  they send out people to test the area.   I know they used to use explosives  to refine the maps and confirm the size of any lake. 
I suspect it's more subtle now.  
    Once they have a confirmation of a suitably sized deposit.  They try to acquire the rights to the oil. ( I don't know how critical they have to be to get right over the oil.  Slant drilling has been going on for a long time, but with Fracking they can go down and then bore  sideways. I'd love to see how that works.  
   I don't know the likelihood  of being caught or if it's done but I imagine some cantankerous person  could refuse and that would be a way to extract it. ( pure speculation)   
 Once rights are obtained,  permits are sought. Again I can see delays.  Lawyers and courts aren't particularly  quick. 
  Once all that is lined up and assuming there are sets of equipment and teams to man that gear.  Then work begins.  I do know things like dry holes exist.  
      So perhaps other holes must be drilled. 
      Since none of that happens until the money is lined up, the Lawyers happy and permits granted we are talking delays. 
     At Sea the drilling platforms take a while to  build and tow to the site. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Weren't you the one that asked me if I pay attention to what's going on? NAFTA?! You've had 3 years, literally to the day, to learn we are not a part of NAFTA anymore. It was replaced with the USMCA.

So I ask you, do you even pay attention to what's going on?

Sorry I couldn't remember the new set of initials. 

solar panel sales are up 47% over last year here in the US. At this rate solar power in the US should reach 48 Giga watts by the end of this year 

   The prime reason is the materials in a solar panel are down in cost by 50%   Panel prices out of south east Asia ( primarily Vietnam)  are close to 1/3 of what they were last year. 
Approximately 50% of those are private homes while the rest are commercial sites.  Wind is also up .  
  As of this month renewables account for 22% of power generated.  Which while way behind European averages.   Some  of which are approaching 100%.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm calling this post BS.

Here is the data.  Go divide the number of wells developed per year by the number of rigs.  You ever been to a rig site?  Want me to tell you how to start a rotary drill rig?

https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/rig-counts-and-wells-drilled-by-year
 

Each rig drills multiple wells a year, a lot of them.  They are highly portable.  Each rig is typically on a well pad for a few weeks and then they disassemble and move to the next pad.  Like I said.  I've seen it.  You pulled numbers out of your.....

TX is having rolling blackouts this summer.  Would you like to talk to my friends and former neighbors experiencing it?  
 

Nice job denying the near grid collapse that occurred during Uri too.  There is a huge difference between renewable power and reliable power.  You need enough reliable power for the bad days.  Most places do not have it now.

       So rights, permits, etc.  just take a few moments?   
     I'm calling BS. 
     Yes Texas wasn't prepared.  But Elon Musk is helping them in that regard.  
  Go down to the Tesla Giga Factory where they are building the 1.2 million already ordered Cyber trucks.  On site they are putting the first megapac  in. 
  That has enough reserve capacity to run a sizeable city. 
     As more are available more will go in.  

You are calling BS on factual almanac data over several years without posting any evidence yourself?  Would you like to check the monthly data in World Oil too?  
 

I'd tell you what I think of your E36 M3 evidentiary production skills but this forum would implode in rage.  
 

Your lack of logic and inability to produce evidence to support your claims says a lot about society today.  People literally are going incapable of processing any evidence that goes against the media narrative.  And in case you didn't know it the people on TV know jack squat about anything except how to read lies with a smile on their face.  
 

NPC meme is valid.  This is proof.  

Just like in the Russian thread in OT, you constantly say you're going to share information that is going to wreck what we think. But you never share the groundbreaking information.

I finally found an EV that will do exactly what I need it to and was reasonably priced. 72 volts. 50+- miles of range. It will be perfect for working on the farm. Unfortunately, it may not qualify. It didn't replace an ICE, it replaced a 30-year-old electric golf cart.  

In reply to Toyman! :

To my knowledge there is no requirement that an EV replace a ICE. 
 If that is American Made,  has American Made batteries,  and is licensed for on the road use.  I'd do some research. 
 

And lastly the last article shared in the aforementioned thread got ratioed (censorship lite) into unviewable territory because it did in fact shatter a few hundred pages of narrative.  Zero comments, zero discussion, and zero rebuttal, and censored so as not to be seen.  Free, open and honest discussion?  Only if it agrees with the MSM.  Honestly I don't know how true that article was but it sure seemed odd for the NYT.  
 

I can tell almost everything I need to know about 90 % of the people on this site by what they will not discuss.  What does that say?  Can you challenge that?  I could make 10 topics that most people here are too afraid to discuss with very little effort.  The article I mentioned would be #10 meaning the other 9 would make people squirm and censor even more. 
 

Who knew publishing rig counts and well drilled totals would be so controversial.  It's simple public record.  
 

And as a simple FYI, TX has more active rigs than the other 49 states typically.  And the US has more active drilling rigs than the rest of the world.  It's that much more difficult to develop what we have, but we are really good at it and could be energy independent.  But I know nothing, I'm Jon Snow.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

I can tell almost everything I need to know about 90 % of the people on this site by what they will not discuss.  What does that say?

It says that after a long day at work people really don't want to talk about larger issues; this forum is an oasis from all of that.

In reply to Tom1200 :

This very important subject is buried in an electric car thread. The people that could be enlightened by it's presentation might be missing it because it is.

If only there was a dedicated thread on the subect(s)...

frenchyd said:

In reply to Toyman! :

To my knowledge there is no requirement that an EV replace a ICE. 
 If that is American Made,  has American Made batteries,  and is licensed for on the road use.  I'd do some research. 
 

The title of this thread is:

"I still don't see EV's Replacing ICEs."

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

z31maniac said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm calling this post BS.

Here is the data.  Go divide the number of wells developed per year by the number of rigs.  You ever been to a rig site?  Want me to tell you how to start a rotary drill rig?

https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/rig-counts-and-wells-drilled-by-year
 

Each rig drills multiple wells a year, a lot of them.  They are highly portable.  Each rig is typically on a well pad for a few weeks and then they disassemble and move to the next pad.  Like I said.  I've seen it.  You pulled numbers out of your.....

TX is having rolling blackouts this summer.  Would you like to talk to my friends and former neighbors experiencing it?  
 

Nice job denying the near grid collapse that occurred during Uri too.  There is a huge difference between renewable power and reliable power.  You need enough reliable power for the bad days.  Most places do not have it now.

       So rights, permits, etc.  just take a few moments?   
     I'm calling BS. 
     Yes Texas wasn't prepared.  But Elon Musk is helping them in that regard.  
  Go down to the Tesla Giga Factory where they are building the 1.2 million already ordered Cyber trucks.  On site they are putting the first megapac  in. 
  That has enough reserve capacity to run a sizeable city. 
     As more are available more will go in.  

You are calling BS on factual almanac data over several years without posting any evidence yourself?  Would you like to check the monthly data in World Oil too?  
 

I'd tell you what I think of your E36 M3 evidentiary production skills but this forum would implode in rage.  
 

Your lack of logic and inability to produce evidence to support your claims says a lot about society today.  People literally are going incapable of processing any evidence that goes against the media narrative.  And in case you didn't know it the people on TV know jack squat about anything except how to read lies with a smile on their face.  
 

NPC meme is valid.  This is proof.  

Just like in the Russian thread in OT, you constantly say you're going to share information that is going to wreck what we think. But you never share the groundbreaking information.

Just like any thread you prove you are incapable of reading and simple math.  Go to the link provided.  Divide the number of wells drilled by the number of rigs per year.  Quickly realize it doesn't take 3-8 years to drill a well.  Try weeks, not years.  The problem is you keep expecting and anticipating groundbreaking, earth shattering, mind blowing revelations.  The ultra sad reality is that nothing in life is that complex.  

I read an article today that said 96% of thermometers used to record climate data are too close to brick, asphalt, or concrete which are man made and store heat.  This means a lot of climate data is suspect.  Do I have to read it you?  Do I need to comprehend it for you too?  I've often argued society ain't getting smarter.  Prove I'm wrong!  Can you find the article yourself?  Should you?  
 

I'm not promising anything to anyone.  I'm actually trying really hard to be nice and civil while discussing the very simple and patently obvious truth.  I've sworn to be nicer, but posts like this make it really hard.  It's nothing but a poorly constructed uninformed insult.  It's the type of nonsense the crowd here adores.  No substance just muck that confirms to bad narratives.
 

In fact, I can't wreck what anyone thinks because most people have stopped thinking and just do what they're told.  
 

Good luck changing the temperature of the planet when you can't feed, clothe and shelter everyone or even stop murdering people for sport.  I'm sure the forced conversion to EVs will solve all the problems.....  mind blown yet?  Your thoughts wrecked?  
 

Why don't you do something mind wrecking to me instead of lobbing the same tired insults my way.  Astound me!  

"I'm trying to be nice" while quoting your own words where you literally insulted someone. 

You're a trip.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

z31maniac said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I'm calling this post BS.

Here is the data.  Go divide the number of wells developed per year by the number of rigs.  You ever been to a rig site?  Want me to tell you how to start a rotary drill rig?

https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/rig-counts-and-wells-drilled-by-year
 

Each rig drills multiple wells a year, a lot of them.  They are highly portable.  Each rig is typically on a well pad for a few weeks and then they disassemble and move to the next pad.  Like I said.  I've seen it.  You pulled numbers out of your.....

TX is having rolling blackouts this summer.  Would you like to talk to my friends and former neighbors experiencing it?  
 

Nice job denying the near grid collapse that occurred during Uri too.  There is a huge difference between renewable power and reliable power.  You need enough reliable power for the bad days.  Most places do not have it now.

       So rights, permits, etc.  just take a few moments?   
     I'm calling BS. 
     Yes Texas wasn't prepared.  But Elon Musk is helping them in that regard.  
  Go down to the Tesla Giga Factory where they are building the 1.2 million already ordered Cyber trucks.  On site they are putting the first megapac  in. 
  That has enough reserve capacity to run a sizeable city. 
     As more are available more will go in.  

You are calling BS on factual almanac data over several years without posting any evidence yourself?  Would you like to check the monthly data in World Oil too?  
 

I'd tell you what I think of your E36 M3 evidentiary production skills but this forum would implode in rage.  
 

Your lack of logic and inability to produce evidence to support your claims says a lot about society today.  People literally are going incapable of processing any evidence that goes against the media narrative.  And in case you didn't know it the people on TV know jack squat about anything except how to read lies with a smile on their face.  
 

NPC meme is valid.  This is proof.  

Just like in the Russian thread in OT, you constantly say you're going to share information that is going to wreck what we think. But you never share the groundbreaking information.

Just like any thread you prove you are incapable of reading and simple math.  Go to the link provided.  Divide the number of wells drilled by the number of rigs per year.  Quickly realize it doesn't take 3-8 years to drill a well.  Try weeks, not years.  The problem is you keep expecting and anticipating groundbreaking, earth shattering, mind blowing revelations.  The ultra sad reality is that nothing in life is that complex.  

I read an article today that said 96% of thermometers used to record climate data are too close to brick, asphalt, or concrete which are man made and store heat.  This means a lot of climate data is suspect.  Do I have to read it you?  Do I need to comprehend it for you too?  I've often argued society ain't getting smarter.  Prove I'm wrong!  Can you find the article yourself?  Should you?  
 

I'm not promising anything to anyone.  I'm actually trying really hard to be nice and civil while discussing the very simple and patently obvious truth.  I've sworn to be nicer, but posts like this make it really hard.  It's nothing but a poorly constructed uninformed insult.  It's the type of nonsense the crowd here adores.  No substance just muck that confirms to bad narratives.
 

In fact, I can't wreck what anyone thinks because most people have stopped thinking and just do what they're told.  
 

Good luck changing the temperature of the planet when you can't feed, clothe and shelter everyone or even stop murdering people for sport.  I'm sure the forced conversion to EVs will solve all the problems.....  mind blown yet?  Your thoughts wrecked?  
 

Why don't you do something mind wrecking to me instead of lobbing the same tired insults my way.  Astound me!  

I have no doubt that at times there are surplus drilling rigs just sitting around.  At times. 
      I also believe that some well sites you can have the drilling rights and permits easily and quickly. 
       But there are also times/sites  where   Delay is massive and resisted by owners and  local officials. 
         As I understand it shale is very productive. Both in light sweet crude and natural gas.  Looking at the maps of shale that's some pretty broad  territory of  scarcely populated area.  
     If that is true why aren't all those surplus rigs in use?  
    Why build billion dollar drilling platforms in the North Atlantic?  
      Regarding ocean drilling, are you telling me they have those drilling platforms built and just sitting around waiting to be used?  
      So yes there is a delay between site selection and  when the site produces oil and a longer delay before the costs of all of that are met and the site becomes  profitable.  
      To actually prove that I'd need to spend a lot more time on a subject Of little interest. ( and learn how to cut and paste). 
      
I'm not anti oil. And nobody is forcing anyone to buy an EV.   
   But change is happening.  Society is looking for alternatives. And finding them. If they aren't yet perfect, give them time.  They will improve.  America didn't go from horses to cars and trucks overnight.  There were still horses in major cities and working on farms into the 1930's  In spite of Henry Fords best efforts at making the Model T affordable. 
 

In reply to frenchyd :

Society is not looking for a change; when I say society I mean that in a collective sense.

This was in my original post; once people realize EVs are not going to magically transform the planet there will be backlash.

If society were truly looking for them EVs wouldn't be mandated via legislation. There are a very small percentage of people pushing this.......mostly politicians pandering to a specific block. EVs work well for some people but they aren't the end all be all.

EVs are simply a different version of an existing product (we are not talking horse vs car). 

And speaking of horses; we've beat the bones into powder on this topic.  

 ICE use a non renewable resource.  While there may be plenty of oil left. It's getting harder and more expensive to recover it.  That means more and more  cost.  
    EV's use a renewable resource. Wind and solar along with tides, waves, falling water,  etc.  

   True, both need machinery to capture it.  But once  oil is pumped out it needs transportation to someplace to be refined into a useable  product and then shipped to someplace to sell it.   Finally the  individual  needs to drive to it and get it.  
  Electricity on the other hand comes in useable form.  Delivered right to your door.  
  Or pulled right out of the sky with solar panels or wind generator.* 
    You leave home with your "tank" full  only if you exceed the range of the "tank" would you need to recharge.  
   15 minutes of charge time adds approx 150 miles of range.  430 mile range is  commonly available.  Add 150 miles while eating lunch and taking a bathroom break  means 580 mile range  is over 10 hours of driving!! @55 

    * Battery storage is getting more and more affordable.  It will take a serious drop in costs  as Sodium Ion batteries are put into a home.   Sodium is right next to lithium on the periodic table. But it's not really suitable for cars.   But very suitable for the home.  
    There are claims by some mfg that 6-900 miles is available ( or will soon be available). with 6 minute  charge time.   Different battery chemistry. 
        So from a practical aspect EV's already make sense.   Both Tesla and GM promise  a $25,000 EV  with 250 mile range by next year. 
     The most popular selling EV in the world sells for less than the current average price of a new car   And that is before federal and state  rebates. 
      Don't worry, the oil companies already get billions of dollars of tax breaks. And still the price of gasoline is between $3.50-$4.00 a gallon. ( the EPA  provides a gallon equivalent  for the electricity used). 
       Please note I have made no environmental claims.  
  However if you look at some of the new batteries you'll note that they use lithium oxide rather than pure lithium.   And the new sodium ion for stationary batteries  is basically purified sea water. 
     Not every improvement is available right off the bat.   But by this time in the ICE  saga  we were driving Model T's 

     Easier, cheaper, is something that ICE  doesn't have going for it. I suppose they can send delivery trucks out every night to fill up your tank.  But really , I wouldn't hold my breath. 
       
      
        

frenchyd said:

    EV's use a renewable resource. Wind and solar along with tides, waves, falling water,  etc.

Frenchyd,  

People would be more willing to listen to you if you would stop sprinkling your posts with "facts" that you make up on the spot. Seriously, stop doing that. 

The truth is about 80% of the energy that EVs use also comes out of the ground in some form or another and is not considered renewable. 

Stick to the facts.

True but its easier to port renewable electricity into batteries than synthsize carbon neurral fuels. Which is why electrification is important. Not for everything, but a piece.