I tried looking around in here for some advice. Didn't see anyone asking the specifics in recent times.
It seems to me, this month, we got to 2019 prices for Model S 2012-2014ish at under and around 20k.
Anyone have experience as a first time EV owner with a cheap Tesla Model S?
Reliability and what kind of EV maintenance is what Im curious about. (motors, controllers, batteries, etc.)
Thanks,
-Paul
They seem to be shockingly reliable. Just read an article on it, less than 5% of Model S owners have ever replaced a battery:
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last
My concerns would be:
1) Is your boy Elon gonna slash new Tesla prices with a tweet (again)? Further devaluing your used Tesla
2) You go into this fully aware of the range shenanagins (hot/cold climate reduce the range, Tesla is facing a large lawsuit over outright lying about range, etc)
3) You understand your Tesla will be considered a relic when the solid state batteries release in the next few years
I think the Model S is the best looking mass-produced EV to date, but I suspect in 3-5 years there will be a glut of EVs to choose from that are 20% faster, 20% cheaper, with 20% better range
In reply to calteg :
This is one of the reasons I'm waiting. That, and I'm cheap. I tend to buy cars when they hit the bottom of the depreciation curve because I'm decidedly light in the wallet region.
I can't even find a wasted Leaf in my budget, so for now I'm hanging on to ICE. Once the new solid-state batteries hit the market, that will push hybrids into my budget, then 5 years later, that 2019 Model S might be something that fits my bag. Sounds like Catapultkid might be a few years ahead of me in that curve. I agree on waiting a bit.
Right now the market is all a buzz with the first generation of EVs. As soon as the second generation hits, first gens will likely be practically discarded.
I would not consider solid state batteries to be coming anytime soon, regardless of what Toyota is putting out there in promises and press releases. They're a little touchy. The insiders I know are basically saying lol no. The good news is that an S already charges pretty darn fast, charging speed only matters on road trips and they have pretty spectacular range already. So the mythical solid state car won't have any actual day to day advantages. I'd call the current generation of EVs second or maybe third. First gen were Citicars, second would probably be the original Leaf and the compliance cars.
I would seriously consider cross shopping a new 3 or a Bolt instead. The older S is a couple of evolutions behind, and with the federal tax credits being higher for new cars than used ones it may not be much different in price.
Maintenance is basically nil. Tires and brake fluid.
I have no idea how the value proposition works out. But my boss bought a model s a while ago, I want to say like 2017 maybe? It was the last year they made a RWD only trim. He drove it a ton the first few years and then somewhere along the line it migrated to being his wife's car. To my knowledge it's still running with no major issues. I'd guess it's a lot like any other car where the car itself is less important than the way it was treated by its previous owner(s).
catapultkid said:It seems to me, this month, we got to 2019 prices for Model S 2012-2014ish at under and around 20k.
Are they really that cheap? I haven't been looking but I figured they were holding their value pretty high.
Besides the battery, like any used car I suppose you also have to look at suspension components, etc. to make sure they aren't worn out
I've enjoyed playing with 15+ year old Prius Hybrids. I could see myself enjoying 15+ year old EVs and I look forward to it.
It will require improved used part support and internet repair support for me to get further involved
I've seen a couple older BMW i3s under 10k after I stumbled onto Simple CarGuy on YT buying an auction car. The older ones are pretty short range, but it would be kind of cool to have a carbon fiber bodied transportation pod for around town use.
I was kind of looking at the model S before we got the Bolt, but at the time most of the S were over 25k so no 4k tax benefit. i just looked at AutoTempest, and there are a bunch of S below 20k!
Edit - this with smaller battery, but stupidly low miles.
In reply to calteg :
I need to build out a simple calculator on this.
Full coverage insurance and property taxes are usually the reason I say away from buying remotely new.
I'd be curious how close these two scenarios are now that new prices are dropping.
I have a '15 Model S, purchased used in '18. When I bought it in '18 the 90% battery was 235 miles @28,000 miles - charged yesterday to 90% 233 miles @75,000 miles - battery is holding mileage fantastically.
overall it has been very reliable with known faults such as:
1. Door handles - early S handles will fail, either the wiring harness or the pawl that extends the handle - $300 each to replace with new upgraded handle in about 1 hour, service tech comes to your house to repair
2. 12V battery - lasts about 3 years - $200ish to replace
3. Tail light seals - the tail lights on the liftgate are not sealed well or the seal was displaced during assembly leading to water ingress into the tail lights - $300 each to replace.
4. Tires - 20-25,000 miles
5. Insurance is $$$ due to repair costs
6. Center display is terribly slow - upgrade to MCU2 ($1500) solves this issue
The upside
1. no oil changes
2. no smog checks
3. most service repairs are done at your house
4. Software updates keep improving an almost 10 year old car
5. it's fast and quiet
Damn I wish I had a place to charge. These are VW GTI money or less. Would be a great highway cruiser
Keith Tanner said:I would not consider solid state batteries to be coming anytime soon, regardless of what Toyota is putting out there in promises and press releases. They're a little touchy. The insiders I know are basically saying lol no. The good news is that an S already charges pretty darn fast, charging speed only matters on road trips and they have pretty spectacular range already. So the mythical solid state car won't have any actual day to day advantages. I'd call the current generation of EVs second or maybe third. First gen were Citicars, second would probably be the original Leaf and the compliance cars.
I would seriously consider cross shopping a new 3 or a Bolt instead. The older S is a couple of evolutions behind, and with the federal tax credits being higher for new cars than used ones it may not be much different in price.
Maintenance is basically nil. Tires and brake fluid.
We now have a bolt EUV and base spec model 3 in the garage. The bolt is, in many ways, a better car but it's massively under damped and the non-Tesla charging network is generally disappointing. Our situation with rebates in Colorado made both cars ~$23k pre taxes/fees. Insurance for the Tesla is about $20/month more than the outgoing e39 540. Horses for courses but I much prefer the driving experience of the Tesla.
Not sure what model s prices are but I would give the rwd m3 a drive if you qualify for any tax incentives. The lfp batteries should do motorsports well with full power available to 5% charge and seemingly better thermal management. "Slow" car fast or something
The Model 3s are so ugly and abundant that when I see an older Model S I am stunned that the same company put out such a beautiful design. Had no idea they were getting that cheap. $20k is a crazy value even with high mileage.
In reply to maschinenbau :
Honestly, there are dealers selling them for that. <20k
maschinenbau said:The Model 3s are so ugly and abundant that when I see an older Model S I am stunned that the same company put out such a beautiful design. Had no idea they were getting that cheap. $20k is a crazy value even with high mileage.
Porsche was making the Cayman and the first-gen Panamera at the same time. So it's not just Tesla. I don't think the Model 3 is as bad as you feel, but I agree the Model S is looks way, way better. Model S is fantastic.
Parts availability is going to be a serious issue according to the shops around here. Beyond things like consumables, fenders, bumpers, suspension components. I have been told they are all on serious backorder.
But if you a typical GRM guy finding them used is not going to be a problem. I see the appeal at this price point though.
catapultkid said:In reply to calteg :
Full coverage insurance and property taxes are usually the reason I say away from buying remotely new.
After seeing a colleague's $14,000 fender-bender in a Model 3 I don't think I'd own a Tesla without full insurance coverage. Parts weren't crazy expensive but the labor required was mind boggling.
An AWD version would be very tempting if I could find one for $15k-$18k
Keith Tanner said:I would not consider solid state batteries to be coming anytime soon, regardless of what Toyota is putting out there in promises and press releases. They're a little touchy. The insiders I know are basically saying lol no. The good news is that an S already charges pretty darn fast, charging speed only matters on road trips and they have pretty spectacular range already. So the mythical solid state car won't have any actual day to day advantages. I'd call the current generation of EVs second or maybe third. First gen were Citicars, second would probably be the original Leaf and the compliance cars.
I would seriously consider cross shopping a new 3 or a Bolt instead. The older S is a couple of evolutions behind, and with the federal tax credits being higher for new cars than used ones it may not be much different in price.
Maintenance is basically nil. Tires and brake fluid.
I agree, from what I've read the last year, any thought of solid state batteries are likely more than a decade out.
In reply to paddygarcia, not carrying full coverage on anything that isn't a throw away, is a bad idea in my humble opinion. $500-1000 deductible is way less than trying to replace something that is $10k+.
Make sure you budget for a new MCU in early Teslas if it hasn't already been upgraded.
John Welsh said:I've enjoyed playing with 15+ year old Prius Hybrids. I could see myself enjoying 15+ year old EVs and I look forward to it.
It will require improved used part support and internet repair support for me to get further involved
WRT internet repair support - I just discovered that there are repair/service manuals available for the Teslas on their site as well as a service mode on the center screen. So far, they're pretty solid manuals and even include pro videos (as opposed to rando YouTube videos) on some of the work. I'm going to dig into them a little further and do a writeup, as I know this is an area of concern for Teslas for a lot of people. Used parts support is actually pretty solid.
There's also a higher level of service mode access available by subscription - daily, monthly or yearly.
In reply to z31maniac :
Comprehensive coverage is typically something like $20 a month or less. I would never skip it, if available.
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