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z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
11/3/14 2:38 p.m.
MrChaos wrote: The FA20 in the brz/frs still scares me. It didn't help that I went to the ft86forum and looked in the issues sub forum and the issues with the engine thread(for the CEL/SL/Idle Issue) is now 132 pages long and there are still the same engine issues since launch. It doesn't matter if it is a modded car or a stock car they all are having the same issues and some are on their 5th engine and 10th ecu and the issue still isn't fixed and the issue has been present since launch. It doesn't matter if it is a 2013 model year or a 2014/15 model year. I still need to see the numbers for the Manual Ecoboost mustang. but it and the miata are front runners right now.

I suspect like most things on the internet it's blown out of proportion.

My car has 400 miles on it and I went ahead and did a tune. I'm considering adding an E85 kit just for the hell of it as well.

nokincy
nokincy New Reader
11/3/14 3:42 p.m.

Genesis coupe with the V6. For the sound only.

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/3/14 4:13 p.m.

Since it is your only car, make it a hardtop. I'd stay away from the Genesis and add a Mustang to the list, simply because the Mustang is going to have huge aftermarket support and the forums will likely answer any question you might ever have about it.

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/3/14 5:02 p.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy:

wouldn't be my only car. It would be this vehicle and a 4x4(most likely a samurai/tracker or an M1008).

bmw88rider
bmw88rider GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/3/14 6:38 p.m.

Best thing to do is to talk to the insurance guy first and just see. I mean it doesn't take too long to get a quote on the top 3-4 choices. Nothing worse than getting the car and then being shocked the insurance is way too high.

That way you can remove the guessing and eliminate any of the worse candidates. I know the twins are much higher than a C6 vette for me because of the average claim rate. Heck I have to move up to the Z06 to get an insurance rate higher than the twins.

I would also add the 128I to the list. The last of the pure BMW's

MrChaos
MrChaos GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/3/14 7:34 p.m.

using geicos online quote thing, which I know isnt the most accurate. but I used real, but fake, info.

2015 Mustang: $90/mo 50/100 coverage

2014 FRS/brz(both were the same): $95/mo

2013 NC Miata: $70/mo

2006 Corvette: $65/mo

2008 Miata: $60/ mo

Vracer111
Vracer111 New Reader
11/3/14 8:13 p.m.
Brokenbrakes
Brokenbrakes New Reader
11/3/14 10:16 p.m.

Fine! If I am still single in a year for my birthday I am buying a C6 vette... can you trade a Mazda 2 in on a vette?

Tom1200
Tom1200 Reader
11/4/14 12:32 a.m.

I seriously considered an FRS/BRZ after driving a students car at a track day, they are great fun but in the end I bought a used Outback wagon and a Formula 500. As for the choices here I'd go with a Miata; The back seat in the FRS isn't especially useable, used Miatas are cheap and I just find the Miata the most fun to drive. This may be a biased view as I raced a 1.6 in Showroom Stock and used it as a daily driver. Having driven everything from super cars to single seaters, if I had to have just one car I'd pick the Miata. With that said there is no wrong choice with either the FRS or the Miata.

Tom

rwdsport
rwdsport Reader
11/4/14 1:24 a.m.

Former Miata, Turbo Miata, FRS owner. Hardcore trackrat, have driven pretty much everything from stock crapboxes to 800hp racecars. I am going to give you a lot of bad advice so take it with a grain of salt. Also my opinion has evolved and changed over the years but I think I have a good handle on it now.

Also the genesis is crap in every iteration. I would hunt for a 350Z/370Z & G35/G37 instead. If the 370Z is a good 8/10th car, the genesis is a good 6/10ths car. And the FRS by the way is a good 10/10ths car. But the S2000 is a better 10/10ths car. And the 370Z is a better 6/10ths car than the FRS.

What are you going to use the car for? Exclusively DD duty? DD duty and some autox? DD duty and a couple trackdays? Every car is a compromise and your car should really be catered primarily to its primary duty, which I would assume almost certainly to be daily driver.

Second point is you really have no idea what you want no matter how much you have convinced yourself on paper. You NEED to drive every car you are considering and that will make the decision infinitely easier and with a much higher chance of satisfaction. Example: I prefer naturally aspirated motors. On paper I though I would enjoy the G37s over the 335is. I got to take both of those out on the same day during a student autox. The 335is was a superior vehicle in every aspect, it was no comparison.

Third point. And this will seem counter intuitive. I don't care for power when I'm racing. I'll take it but that is not where I get the thrills. On the street however, give me ALL of it. And the torque too please. 2 Year younger me would be running at present me with a flaming pitchfork "Momentum car! Steering Feel! Handling!". Unless your home track is Road America or something, then a wee bit of power is nice. Here is the thing, I had a chance to take out an E90 M3, BMW 1M and the FRS on my home track the same day. And you know what, both of the BMWs which make absolutely sublime street cars (fact) I enjoyed less than the FRS. The 1M had the non-linear torque from the boosted motor, the E90 would understeer on turnin and transfer nicely to power oversteer, both of the BMWs had wider gates and were harder to heel and toe and drive consistently at the limit. Which is exactly what you do NOT want on track. On track you want the car to disappear around you, work with you like an extension of your hand and allow you to push yourself and drive at the absolute threshold. The FRS was much better for this and thus, more fun to track. However, I would take the E90 M3 home, because I spend maybe 20 hours a year on track, and that makes up most likely 1% of the total driving time of that year. And the BMWs make MUCH better cars. Power is nice to have on the street, throw it down in second and merge up the entire onramp sideways (please don't). Good luck getting the FRS to so much as twitch. And on the street you damn well better not be driving at your absolute threshold.

Another example of this. The ITR is an absolute sublime and thrilling car to drive in anger. I had an 8th Gen Si and I would take that car every time. Because it is about a 400% better daily driver and about 80% of the performance car. Guess what I did more with that car.

As such, I could have dropped 15K into the FRS and have my FRS-RS which would have been a compromised DD and a great, fast, reliable track car with quality parts. You know what the smart thing to do instead? Buy an E36/E46 M3, 370Z, Cayman for that 25k...and use that 15K to buy a turnkey racecar, timetrial car. You will have a nice, comfy, fast and still fun DD and you won't have to ruin it to turn it into a compromised track car. If you like that sort of thing.

My thoughts on the FRS:

Best NEW sports car you can get under 50k, we are lucky to have it. I was looking at an FRS or an S2000. The S2000 is a better and more thrilling sports car but the FRS is 80% of the sports car with much more utility. Also S2000 prices have gotten stupid in the last couple of years. Seating position is one of the best in the business, a proper cockpit. Fit and finish is nice enough for what you paid for it. Reasonable utility (back seats are useless, grocery seats was all they were for me), she will do fine on a weekend getaway. Pretty good on gas, excellent transmission and an absolute pleasure to hustle. Very fun to drive hard. Hated, HAAAAAATED the sound of the motor, especially after the K20 in the Si. Much like everything, the car has its weakpoints under hard driving: if you shift too quickly it causes a lean condition which slowly destroys the direct injection seals and then blows your motor. It's not that hard to prevent and relatively easy to fix. Definitely blown out of proportion but learn term longevity of the motor has not been proven yet, like it has on the S2000 for example. Also the driveline handles boost very well, with guys running 400whp for 20K miles with no problems. Try it out, I like a bit more torque for DD duty but the car has enough power.

Hope that helps!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/4/14 6:42 a.m.

I was just looking up the quick-shift DI seal failure problem...looks like there's a reflash available from Toyota to fix it:

http://gt86.com.au/forum/f16/damage-hp-injectors-detonation-3308/

Edit: Seems cars produced after Jan. 2013 already have it.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce UberDork
11/4/14 6:58 a.m.

Just to add a data point on the FRS, the back seats are very similar in size and function to a 911. For many (most?) People they are decoration, but if you have short legs/sit close, they are fine. I can sit fairly comfortably behind myself in the FRS. I'm on the short side of 5'11" and have stubby legs for my height.
I'm just suggesting that people evaluate back seat claims themselves before dismissing that part of a car. One of the reasons a BRZ makes sense to ME is because of the useful back seats.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
11/4/14 7:20 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Agreed. I (5'10") sat in the back of my coworker's FRS. I couldn't sit behind him when he's driving (he's about 6'2"), but behind the passenger seat would be tolerable for a lunch trip. He's happy with the car since whenever he does long trips for work he rents anyway (cheaper project charge than paying for mileage).

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
11/4/14 7:21 a.m.

In reply to rwdsport:

About the only part of that I would disagree with is the 350Z part (haven't got to spend anytime in a 370Z), I bought a mint, low mileage 2006 Touring with every option except Nav.

I sold it in 3 months. Cheap interior materials, heavy, just underwhelming at everything other than killing miles quickly on the interstate.

rotard
rotard Dork
11/4/14 7:23 a.m.

Go for the Corvette if you're wanting more performance down the road. It'll out everything most cars in most performance categories while being reliable and getting decent mpg. I should have kept my C5 Z06 instead of getting automotive ADD.

Since when is the FRS/BRZ that much faster than an NC? I've owned both (2013 Club/2015 FRS), and they're pretty even in the 1/4 mile. I'd even give the nod to the NC 0-60. Performance is so close, especially on the street, that I'd let the roof issue be the deciding factor.

The NC has better build quality, the paint is much better, and it didn't depreciate as fast. The FRS handles better stock, has more power, looks sweet, and is almost as much fun to drive.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
11/4/14 7:35 a.m.

I was just going off of magazine tests, which can be silly, i readily admit.

The FRS has gotten into the mid 14s, i don't recall seeing an NC out of the 15s.

I could very well be wrong, and if so, i apologize.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
11/4/14 7:59 a.m.
rotard wrote: Go for the Corvette if you're wanting more performance down the road. It'll out everything most cars in most performance categories while being reliable and getting decent mpg. I should have kept my C5 Z06 instead of getting automotive ADD. Since when is the FRS/BRZ that much faster than an NC? I've owned both (2013 Club/2015 FRS), and they're pretty even in the 1/4 mile. I'd even give the nod to the NC 0-60. Performance is so close, especially on the street, that I'd let the roof issue be the deciding factor. The NC has better build quality, the paint is much better, and it didn't depreciate as fast. The FRS handles better stock, has more power, looks sweet, and is almost as much fun to drive.

I guess it's not fair to compare my 2006 Grand Touring to my new 2015 BRZ Limited. But I would disagree about the better build quality.

And I said noticeably quicker, not drastic. And even admitted it could just be down to the power delivery.

jonsteckelberg
jonsteckelberg New Reader
11/4/14 8:31 a.m.

When I bought my FRS a year ago I cross shopped the Genesis coupe and found them to be very different types of car. The genesis was very much a GT style car and the FRS a sports car. The two biggest factors in the FRS's favor is that it is enourmously fun to drive, both on the road and on a track and the practicality. By practical I mean it has halfway usable rear seats a decent size trunk and good gas milage. I am not a convertible fan so that rules out the Miata in my case. I have also had no problems with the FRS at all so far. The issues reported on the forums are not the majority and most are minor.

Thanks Jon

Rupert
Rupert HalfDork
11/4/14 10:02 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
jstein77 wrote: Frisbee all the way. Fix the power issue with a turbo kit.
I'd do a supercharger. We have local shops making 240whp and 240wtq for $7k including install and any fluids lost. $7k gets you a good to go car. Not the best roi, but considering how awesome the car is, not bad in my eyes.

You can do the same thing with a Miata. I have one in my garage.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/4/14 10:30 a.m.

What's it take to fix a Genesis? They didn't have nice things to say during the Lightning Lap however shocks, sways, pads, and tires fix a lot. A tune may solve the shifting weirdness. It may be a "GT" car but it was 5 seconds a lap faster than the BRZ. I like the look of the genesis more than the G37 which is more similar specs than the BRZ.

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
11/4/14 11:42 a.m.
HiTempguy wrote:
jstein77 wrote: Frisbee all the way. Fix the power issue with a turbo kit.
I'd do a supercharger. We have local shops making 240whp and 240wtq for $7k including install and any fluids lost. $7k gets you a good to go car. Not the best roi, but considering how awesome the car is, not bad in my eyes.

That's nice, but the turbo kit I referenced costs under $5K and produces 320 whp.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UberDork
11/4/14 12:42 p.m.
jstein77 wrote:
HiTempguy wrote:
jstein77 wrote: Frisbee all the way. Fix the power issue with a turbo kit.
I'd do a supercharger. We have local shops making 240whp and 240wtq for $7k including install and any fluids lost. $7k gets you a good to go car. Not the best roi, but considering how awesome the car is, not bad in my eyes.
That's nice, but the turbo kit I referenced costs under $5K and produces 320 whp.

The turbocharger kit magically installs itself? Or maybe you missed that part. And Im in Canada where shop rate is $135/hr.

I believe the appropriate phrase here is "eat a dick shiny happy person" :p

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
11/4/14 1:09 p.m.

Your location isn't our problem.

Local-ish shop: http://www.dynosty.com/products-services/

Would do the FBM base setup installed for your price pretty easily.

jsquared
jsquared Reader
11/4/14 5:11 p.m.
HiTempguy wrote: The turbocharger kit magically installs itself? Or maybe you missed that part. And Im in Canada where shop rate is $135/hr. I believe the appropriate phrase here is "eat a dick shiny happy person" :p

You're on GRM forums and yet you won't install a turbo kit yourself?

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
11/4/14 6:02 p.m.

In reply to jsquared:

"GRM" does not always mean "DIY". Many of us either can't or don't want to do stuff like this ourselves. Personally, as much as I love cars, my enjoyment from working on them has fallen off drastically.

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