Nissan talking trash about BRZ

In reply to Bobzilla:

In reply to HiTempguy:

That one too. I suppose the v6 camaro is supposed to be in the same club too. My personal list is

WRX > Mustang > gen coupe > frisby > camaro

Bobzilla wrote:

accordionfolder wrote: So what I gathered from this thread is everyone wants the SVO mustang that's in the works. (please don't be fat, please don't be fat, please don't be fat.....) Honestly the current v6 mustang seems to be the most relevant contender, even with all it's weight and stick axle.

Or the V6 Gen Coupe......

On paper I agree with you. In reality, for whatever reason it falls short. Maybe it has made vast improvements (I drove whatever the first year was, and admittedly a base model), and maybe I still have a non-justified bias against Hyundai, but it just didn't feel... great.

My feeling is that the Frisbee cars drive like small sports cars. This means that the Miata is their only real competition right now, and quite frankly, the roof and back seat make a huge difference for a lot of people.
The 370z and the Genesis seem to drive like bigger cars. Whether this is due to weight or tuning or both is hard for me to say. That means that they're in competition with the Mustang and Camaro and other big sporty cars.
Nissan needs to compete for whoever it is who is buying the Frisbee cars. It doesn't particularly matter if they are 20 or 50 or 70, they are spending money on cars that appeal to them. Don't make cars for kids, just make good cars. Is that so hard?

Oh, one HUGE point in favor of the Gen though--Warranty. If you're buying new, that is a big perk.

Knurled wrote:

The0retical wrote: Edit: An unsubstantiated rumor I that comes to mind is that the BRZ fighter is getting the 1.6T Juke motor. You couldn't make me less excited.

I'm unfamiliar with it. Is it that bad?

The HR16DE seems like a fine motor but from what I've seen no one really makes any go fast bits for it despite the fact that it's an older motor. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Juke I drove with a turbo'd one in it though that's sort of an oranges to apples comparison.

It doesn't bode in my eyes that you're planning on going head to head with a car which has essentially become the erector set of the enthusiast world, with something you toss in a Versa, Sentra, and mid range model compact SUV.

On the plus side it does have a timing chain rather than a belt from my understanding.

HiTempguy wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Or the V6 Gen Coupe......

You want the V6 gen coupe if you don't want to modify anything. The direct injected 2.0T is god's gift to man! over 300whp and 330wtq with a tune and exhaust parts (turboback). There really is nothing to complain about with the Genesis Coupe. It does exactly what you expect for a ridiculously reasonable price. There are no glaring faults.

Except it's kind of piggy.

The0retical wrote:

Knurled wrote:

The0retical wrote: Edit: An unsubstantiated rumor I that comes to mind is that the BRZ fighter is getting the 1.6T Juke motor. You couldn't make me less excited.

I'm unfamiliar with it. Is it that bad?

The HR16DE seems like a fine motor but from what I've seen no one really makes any go fast bits for it despite the fact that it's an older motor. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Juke I drove with a turbo'd one in it though that's sort of an oranges to apples comparison. It doesn't bode in my eyes that you're planning on going head to head with a car which has essentially become the erector set of the enthusiast world, with something you toss in a Versa, Sentra, and mid range model compact SUV. On the plus side it does have a timing chain rather than a belt from my understanding.

Ah Hem!

In reply to bgkast:

This! It was exactly what I was thinking when they said the juke engine. I love me some Deltawing!

A bit of googling seems to indicate that it's now Mazda powered?

http://www.deltawingracing.com/tech-specs/

It's also direct injection running on e85 according to those specs.

According to the wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeltaWing

"The power plant will be a 2.0L Mazda MZR-based engine which is currently producing 345hp on the dyno and is lighter than the RML-built Nissan engine of 2012"

mtn wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

accordionfolder wrote: So what I gathered from this thread is everyone wants the SVO mustang that's in the works. (please don't be fat, please don't be fat, please don't be fat.....) Honestly the current v6 mustang seems to be the most relevant contender, even with all it's weight and stick axle.

Or the V6 Gen Coupe......

On paper I agree with you. In reality, for whatever reason it falls short. Maybe it has made vast improvements (I drove whatever the first year was, and admittedly a base model), and maybe I still have a non-justified bias against Hyundai, but it just didn't feel... great.

There was a large power bump in 2013. THe V6 went from 297 to 348hp with GDI and a mileage improvement. The 2.0T went from 210 to 270. Tuning and transmission changes accompanied them. I never drove the base car, but I have driven a couple R-specs and they are a very fun car to drive with the Brembos and LSD.

z31maniac wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Or the V6 Gen Coupe......

You want the V6 gen coupe if you don't want to modify anything. The direct injected 2.0T is god's gift to man! over 300whp and 330wtq with a tune and exhaust parts (turboback). There really is nothing to complain about with the Genesis Coupe. It does exactly what you expect for a ridiculously reasonable price. There are no glaring faults.

Except it's kind of piggy.

No more piggy than the Mustang or the 370Z we're talking about here.

In reply to bgkast:

uh, while the engine shared the 1.6l displacement, it was not even close to the same thing. Very much a purpose built engine from block to manifold.

cool marketing, though.

In reply to Bobzilla:

I'm with you Bob, I really, really like the GenCoupe. If I actually had real money, I can easily see myself buying one (new or used). The hard part would be turbo or V6? I drove the pre-update version of both and preferred the V6, but imagine that might change with the newer ones as I'm a boostaholic at heart. I think I haven't driven the new ones yet because I'm afraid I'll spend money...

How many people in this thread have actually driven the Genesis Coupe, the FRS and the 370Z?

Not driven the frisbee. I feel too "tight" in it and all consideration of owning one go straight out the door for me because of that. Just like that damn center console/stack in the Focus that constantly rubs my accelerator leg.

Turboeric wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Snrub wrote: Let me preface this by saying I have yet to drive a FRS/BRZ. I do wonder at some of the hype surrounding the this car. If the 370Z is ~4.5k more than a FRS, why are they considered for radically different markets? Consider them with comparable options and I have to think it's very close. Same thing with the former RX-8 which was considered to have more or less the same attributes as the FRS/BRZ. The base model was very close in price to the FRS/BRZ, but was a bit faster in a straight line, better brakes, more refined, handled a bit better, had worse fuel economy and reliability.

If you haven't driven it, then on what basis are you judging the handling, braking, and refinement?

I was at a track weekend earlier this month, riding shotgun in a 2010 RX8 and lapping with a BRZ. Both were on R compound tires (NT01 on the RX8, RA1 on the BRZ), both were experienced, capable drivers. The RX8 simply ran away from the BRZ, and lapped him in a 20 minute session.

It's a very good thing for car evaluating that driver input has no bearing on the outcome of the test!

I would need to know a lot more about how you qualified these drivers? If the guy got lapped in a 20 minute session with cars that are not that far apart o paper, he fails your qualification check.

You would have to swap drivers to convince me!

As to the RX8, I lusted after that car and its buzz-bomb engine in all its incarnations, but have been aware since the introduction of the RX3 (yeah I'm that old) that they were pretty much delivered as hand grenades sans the pin. I kept rooting that it could be resolved but alas, it is not to be.

NOHOME wrote: As to the RX8, I lusted after that car and its buzz-bomb engine in all its incarnations, but have been aware since the introduction of the RX3 (yeah I'm that old) that they were pretty much delivered as hand grenades sans the pin. I kept rooting that it could be resolved but alas, it is not to be.

Sure it can. LS3.

But seriously, I'd take a profesionally LSx swapped RX8 over all the others we're talking about here.

NOHOME wrote:

Turboeric wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Snrub wrote: Let me preface this by saying I have yet to drive a FRS/BRZ. I do wonder at some of the hype surrounding the this car. If the 370Z is ~4.5k more than a FRS, why are they considered for radically different markets? Consider them with comparable options and I have to think it's very close. Same thing with the former RX-8 which was considered to have more or less the same attributes as the FRS/BRZ. The base model was very close in price to the FRS/BRZ, but was a bit faster in a straight line, better brakes, more refined, handled a bit better, had worse fuel economy and reliability.

If you haven't driven it, then on what basis are you judging the handling, braking, and refinement?

I was at a track weekend earlier this month, riding shotgun in a 2010 RX8 and lapping with a BRZ. Both were on R compound tires (NT01 on the RX8, RA1 on the BRZ), both were experienced, capable drivers. The RX8 simply ran away from the BRZ, and lapped him in a 20 minute session.

It's a very good thing for car evaluating that driver input has no bearing on the outcome of the test! I would need to know a lot more about how you qualified these drivers? If the guy got lapped in a 20 minute session with cars that are not that far apart o paper, he fails your qualification check. You would have to swap drivers to convince me! As to the RX8, I lusted after that car and its buzz-bomb engine in all its incarnations, but have been aware since the introduction of the RX3 (yeah I'm that old) that they were pretty much delivered as hand grenades sans the pin. I kept rooting that it could be resolved but alas, it is not to be.

The "resolved" rotary you are looking for is a 13B from either a GSL-SE or S4 FC.

Bobzilla wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Or the V6 Gen Coupe......

You want the V6 gen coupe if you don't want to modify anything. The direct injected 2.0T is god's gift to man! over 300whp and 330wtq with a tune and exhaust parts (turboback). There really is nothing to complain about with the Genesis Coupe. It does exactly what you expect for a ridiculously reasonable price. There are no glaring faults.

Except it's kind of piggy.

No more piggy than the Mustang or the 370Z we're talking about here.

~3450lb V6 vs 3600lb V8 with tons more tq and power......I still say the Genesis is a bit piggy from a lb:wt ratio.

Still a cool car though.

93EXCivic wrote: How many people in this thread have actually driven the Genesis Coupe, the FRS and the 370Z?

(Raises hand...)

93EXCivic wrote: How many people in this thread have actually driven the Genesis Coupe, the FRS and the 370Z?

Hyundai jumped the gun on the GenCoupe'. If they had waited a couple of years to see what the others were bringing out and gone from there, they could have had a winner instead of an also ran

93EXCivic wrote: How many people in this thread have actually driven the Genesis Coupe, the FRS and the 370Z?

Yes to the first two. I have not driven a 370Z, but I have driven a 350Z and a G37.

The comparo for me was Mustang and FRS. The Mustang is more powerful but feels porky compared to the FRS. Since the weight is what makes the difference, there was no point in continuing to shop.

Keep in mind that in Canada you pay a 13% tax on the price differences, so while a new FRS sits in the driveway for about 33k, there is little chance you will get a 370Z in the driveway for under 45k

NOHOME wrote:

Turboeric wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Snrub wrote: Let me preface this by saying I have yet to drive a FRS/BRZ. I do wonder at some of the hype surrounding the this car. If the 370Z is ~4.5k more than a FRS, why are they considered for radically different markets? Consider them with comparable options and I have to think it's very close. Same thing with the former RX-8 which was considered to have more or less the same attributes as the FRS/BRZ. The base model was very close in price to the FRS/BRZ, but was a bit faster in a straight line, better brakes, more refined, handled a bit better, had worse fuel economy and reliability.

If you haven't driven it, then on what basis are you judging the handling, braking, and refinement?

I was at a track weekend earlier this month, riding shotgun in a 2010 RX8 and lapping with a BRZ. Both were on R compound tires (NT01 on the RX8, RA1 on the BRZ), both were experienced, capable drivers. The RX8 simply ran away from the BRZ, and lapped him in a 20 minute session.

It's a very good thing for car evaluating that driver input has no bearing on the outcome of the test! I would need to know a lot more about how you qualified these drivers? If the guy got lapped in a 20 minute session with cars that are not that far apart o paper, he fails your qualification check. You would have to swap drivers to convince me! As to the RX8, I lusted after that car and its buzz-bomb engine in all its incarnations, but have been aware since the introduction of the RX3 (yeah I'm that old) that they were pretty much delivered as hand grenades sans the pin. I kept rooting that it could be resolved but alas, it is not to be.

I can't answer your equal drivers challenge, except to say that I've been doing track events with both these guys for 10 years and I'd consider them comparable. However, on the grenade comment, the RX8, like the FC RX7 this man had before, just ran and ran, without incident. The BRZ kept throwing codes and going into limp mode late in the weekend. After a couple of drive cycles, it would reset itself, but the driver wasn't impressed. And he came to the BRZ after an M5, so he's used to flaky electrical bits. I'd give them a couple of years to troubleshoot the BRZ before I bought one. If I was looking for a Miata with a roof however, it would be high on my list. Eventually.

Turboeric wrote:

NOHOME wrote:

Turboeric wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Snrub wrote: Let me preface this by saying I have yet to drive a FRS/BRZ. I do wonder at some of the hype surrounding the this car. If the 370Z is ~4.5k more than a FRS, why are they considered for radically different markets? Consider them with comparable options and I have to think it's very close. Same thing with the former RX-8 which was considered to have more or less the same attributes as the FRS/BRZ. The base model was very close in price to the FRS/BRZ, but was a bit faster in a straight line, better brakes, more refined, handled a bit better, had worse fuel economy and reliability.

If you haven't driven it, then on what basis are you judging the handling, braking, and refinement?

I was at a track weekend earlier this month, riding shotgun in a 2010 RX8 and lapping with a BRZ. Both were on R compound tires (NT01 on the RX8, RA1 on the BRZ), both were experienced, capable drivers. The RX8 simply ran away from the BRZ, and lapped him in a 20 minute session.

It's a very good thing for car evaluating that driver input has no bearing on the outcome of the test! I would need to know a lot more about how you qualified these drivers? If the guy got lapped in a 20 minute session with cars that are not that far apart o paper, he fails your qualification check. You would have to swap drivers to convince me! As to the RX8, I lusted after that car and its buzz-bomb engine in all its incarnations, but have been aware since the introduction of the RX3 (yeah I'm that old) that they were pretty much delivered as hand grenades sans the pin. I kept rooting that it could be resolved but alas, it is not to be.

I can't answer your equal drivers challenge, except to say that I've been doing track events with both these guys for 10 years and I'd consider them comparable. However, on the grenade comment, the RX8, like the FC RX7 this man had before, just ran and ran, without incident. The BRZ kept throwing codes and going into limp mode late in the weekend. After a couple of drive cycles, it would reset itself, but the driver wasn't impressed. And he came to the BRZ after an M5, so he's used to flaky electrical bits. I'd give them a couple of years to troubleshoot the BRZ before I bought one. If I was looking for a Miata with a roof however, it would be high on my list. Eventually.

The wife unit does refer to the FRS as the "Remon" due to early technical glitches.