The 4 digit Saab

I'm in the market for a second car. All I've ever owned are hondas, and while they are great, long lasting, and reliable cars I'm growing bored. Saabs have appealed to me for quite a few years, especially 9000 hatchbacks. In the little bit of internet shopping I've done, I'm seeing 95-97 Aero's going in the 4 to 5 thousand range, which is where I'm at as far as wanting to spend. Anyone have experience with 9000's? How's reliability and parts pricing? Also, I'm looking for something that is fun to drive that is why the aero model is the one I'm looking at. The gas mileage looks to be completely acceptable (30 hwy), are the dynamics of the car good, ie power where you need it, balanced feel to the chassis. Basically I want the opinions that you don't get on the typical review site.

Check out saabnet.com. Of course, being Saab centric, they won't say too many bad things but you can find out which models and engines had sludge problems.

In my (limited) experience with them, th automatic transmissions are relatively troublesome as is the minor switchgear/electronics. "Relative" as measured against say a 900 or BMW E30/E36 (either of which would be further up my list than a 9000).

The 900/9000 turbo engines respond well to a few (mainly boost) tweaks and are tremendous performers...

Bill

I am a old-gen 900 guy, so I can't tell you about details of 9000s, but I can tell you that most parts are not terribly expensive if you buy online: http://www.eeuroparts.com is my vendor of choice, having ordered many, many times there over 7 or 8 years with only one disappointment (poor-quality rebuilt calipers).

On forums devoted to the 900, what you usually hear about comparisons to the 9000 is that it's more comfortable, more refined, more spacious, and faster than the 900, but it doesn't handle as well. If you are posting on GRM, then the Aero is the one you want, and, in particular, one with a 5-speed (the automatic-equipped Aeros are not quite as powerful and have a smaller turbo). Power is not an issue -- the Aero makes plenty of it, having once been one of it not the fastest cars at passing speeds on the market.

Re: sludge. Check to be sure, but I seem to recall that this is an issue with the engines used in newer cars, after the Aero went out of production.

Check out http://www.quasimotors.com/. And aside from Saabnet, you might also peruse SaabCentral.com.

Easy check for sludge and general engine condition for all cars, but especially 9000's. Pull the dipstick (near the firewall) and look at the top.few inches of the metal dipstick, as well as the bottom of the cap. A little buildup is ok, a lot means run away. Completely clean means they wiped it off, so run away too. There will be some, at least minor, dirt buildup on a 75k+ mileage car.

Jack

I've strongly considered an E36 as well, but I want a turbocharged car. As well, I don't think that the BMW's pull as good hwy mpg as the 9000. The 900's are cool cars, but the massive depreciation doesn't seem to affect them. A similar condition 900 will fetch more money than the 9000.

Take a long test drive in one to check the ergonomics. I owned a '92 9000CSE non-turbo 5-speed for a couple years, bought it on a whim. Found that the seats weren't actually that comfortable (nothing like 900 seats) and the driving position wasn't very good for me either. I wasn't sad when I got rear-ended in it - insurance didn't total it but paid me more than I had paid 2 years prior, and I sold the unrepaired car for close to that too. The hatch is amazing though - it'll make the workers at Home Depot do double takes with the amount of stuff it'll swallow.

Scott

Are you sure you want a turbo car with gas prices now? Or can you run regular gas in a turbo saab? I seem to remember someone saying you can, but im not sure.

Yes, you can run regular in a 9000 Aero. The computer will ratchet back timing and boost. Incidentally, I don't know what kind of mpg an Aero gets, but my '89 900T does about 32 mpg on the highway at a hair under 70 mph. Check Saab forums for real-world 9000 mileage.

The Aeros had fancy seats made by Recaro, IIRC; they are not like the standard Saab seats. A drawback to this, however, is that the rear seats apparently do not fold down all the way, a consideration if you are hauling a lot of stuff, which, as mentioned, is a nice feature of the car.

I recently had a 1993 9000 Aero. Awesome car. Comfy cruiser, didn't handle all that bad (think it had redline springs on it.) Had intake, Jak Stoll chip, and 3" exhaust on it to start, and that sucker MOVED. Got great highway gas mileage, sounded great, and best of all?

It was cheap. REALLY cheap.

As someone here already started to say... the passing power on these things is straight up ridiculous. 3rd gear was insane. Torque steered like a mofo, but so much fun.

I just recently sold my 91 9000 Turbo, and I thought it was a great car, and an great value for the $$. I paid $800 for a clean, 2 owner, fundamentally sound car with 103k that needed a few things, but once those little things were fixed, it was great...good power (as said before, passing is awesome), a rediculous amount of room, reasonable fun to drive, good in the snow, lots of creature comforts, etc. I would get another one, as they are just SO cheap for what you get. Parts and knowledge base are also good. Avoid the automatics like the plague, and avoid 92/93 cars that have traction control and you'll be fine.

I have a 1996 9000CSE. Wonderful car, very stable and neutral handling. I love my car to death and really can't see owning anything else at this point. When I bought this car 2 years ago I had a set of criteria my next car had to meet

1. Must get over 26mpg - Gets 30mpg regualry
2. Must use regular gas - 87 Octane, Check!
3. Must have a Timing Chain. No belts to replace every 60k (I drive alot)
4. Must have good power. This thing is a rocket in second gear through 5th.
5. Must have cheap parts and be easy to work on. - So far I haven't ran into anything on it I haven't been able to fix myself.
6. Must have lots of rear legroom and cargo space. - This thing is enormous from the drivers seats back. With the seats folded down I have fit a Honda XR-100 in the back of the car.

Nothing else would meet all these requirements, so the SAAB 9000 it was. I haven't been disappointed with my purchase yet.

Things I have replaced on the car. It had 124k miles on it when I got it, now has around 280k.

The DI cassette went bad so I replaced it. I payed $400 for a parts car with Aero Wheels, so I got New tires and this DI cassette for cheap. The water pump went bad, I replaced it. $65 eBay. 3 Exhaust manifold studs rusted and broke off in the head, I extracted them with a $50 Right angle drill, and replaced them with ARP stainless units for $85. Fuel pump had a pinched line on it so i replaced the pump with a used unit from eBay, $135

All in all it's been a great car, I auto-x it in G Stock (still in the novice class) and have managed a 3rd place in the PAX class.

If you need anymore info let me know. If you have specific questions about the car I'll try my best to answer.

The only other car that could remotely replace the SAAB would be a Mazda6 five door, but it has a V6 with not so good gas mileage and takes premium, and has a timing belt....

I have nothing to add other than that you should look up saab suite on youtube. really cool stunt driving with the 9000.

My E36 M3 'vert got better mileage than my (first gen) 900 turbo 'vert, so I'm not sure your perception of the relative mileage is accurate... but having a turbo engine is a pretty awesome thing in itself... a few Group 6 mods and my 900 was a screamer....

Bill

Travis_K wrote: Are you sure you want a turbo car with gas prices now? Or can you run regular gas in a turbo saab? I seem to remember someone saying you can, but im not sure.

The Aero requires Premium. The CSE does not. That 15 extra ponies might not be worth the price in gas.

The 9000's didn't have a sludge issue, it was the 9-5's that really had the problem, I saw an article in NINES about the differences in the motors and why the later ones were more prone to sludging.

SAABs rock.

Isn't the main reason to have a turbo to tweak the boost? No matter what the car needed to start with, they all need premium with the wick turned up....

wcelliot wrote: Isn't the main reason to have a turbo to tweak the boost? No matter what the car needed to start with, they all need premium with the wick turned up....

Well I really have no plans to up the boost on mine, I love the power and the gas savings.

As indicated by the Aero model even a 15hp increase will necessitate 93+ octane.

G_Stock wrote:

wcelliot wrote: Isn't the main reason to have a turbo to tweak the boost? No matter what the car needed to start with, they all need premium with the wick turned up....

Well I really have no plans to up the boost on mine, I love the power and the gas savings.

Levels of self restraint I can only dream about! ;-)

Bill

wcelliot wrote:

G_Stock wrote:

wcelliot wrote: Isn't the main reason to have a turbo to tweak the boost? No matter what the car needed to start with, they all need premium with the wick turned up....

Well I really have no plans to up the boost on mine, I love the power and the gas savings.

Levels of self restraint I can only dream about! ;-) Bill

Seriously... sounds like he hasn't experienced one of these at 20+psi. Boost > sex.

Haha you have no idea how hard it has been not to tinker with it.

I am planning on getting a dedicated track car that I can feed all my repressed tuning desires into.

Then I won't have to worry about such petty things as tire life and gas mileage, or even reliability.

If I didn't occasionally thumb through Consumer Reports, I'd be blissfully unaware that tire life, gas mileage, and reliability were even considerations when evaluating cars. ;-)

I have owned 2 9000s and 3 c900s. I like them both. The Quasimotors site mentioned earlier in this thread is very helpfull. You can run regular in a turbo saab, but it will at best tolerate it, not like it; mid-grade gas is more realistic, on the other hand, my wifes N/A 9000 will run on any swill that passes for gasoline with out a complaint. Stay far away from auto transmissions, any 9000 made in '93 and any with tcs no matter what year. I havent heard about 9000s having a bad sludge build up problem. When you find one that you like check for service records. Look for recent replacement of belt tensioner and pullies, and motor mounts, esp the lower front, these wear out fast. If the car has been through alot of different sevice shops that could be a bad sign too, It seems that alot of non SAAB shops realy like to bugger these things up, IMO any way. Of the 5 that I have owned, the 3 best were purchased from good indie SAAB shops, with decent service histories. I do 90% of the service on my cars, and I think my wifes N/A 9000 has been the easiest to do big repairs on, yes easier than a c900.