Transverse V6 options

So I am designing a cheap-and-chearful, retro Barchetta mid-transvers engine sports-car and thought I would see if anyone had any strong feelings on a transverse V6 that is capable of 300-350hp.

First a little background: I designed this car on the premise that the bodywork molds can each be cut on one operation in a 4'x8'x12" CNC router. The suspension is all miata, with Lotus Elise coils. I am trying to design it with some '60's/'70's style too( think group 7: chrome rollbars and fat 15" Avons). My criteria(in no particular order):

1. Capible of 300-350hp(turbo'd most likely)

2. Durable stock bottom end

3.Cheap and available. as much as I dig the ford SHO v8, its just too rare now.

4. Uses a manual trans

4. clean up nicely.(no crazy ugly valve covers like the nissan vg30). This is a bit subjective, though. 

5. Made within the past 2 decades. Looking for something that anyone can get at nearly any junque-yard. VVT is ok, but Direct Injection might be a challenge to preserve a retro look.

Anyway let me know what you think.

I have Mazda decals on the side because I was thinking about the KLZE but I am not convinced I can really get that kind of power from it.

Honda J motors is the first... and really only motor that comes to mind for this. 

Mitsu 6g72 could be good, but the transmissions are weak. 

+1 on the Honda J series. It's is probably the easy button here.

VQ35 came with a transverse 6 speed in a few Maximas.

Or there's always the good ole VR6, a bit heavier but solid bottom end and makes the noises.

If it's going to say Mazda on the side, it needs a KL-ZE.   I hear they work well with turbos!

LFX/LGX Under a grand from the yard, already at the HP goal, easy to package. 

The DI part is a challenge though. If you care about looks then a SHO motor and a polishing wheel to make it all shine. 

Duratec 3.0 V6 would be my choice for a V6. Used in the Taurus/Sable also shared with Mazda has a version of it. Some even have VVT I think.

In fact I have one I am putting longitudinally in an Amazon Estate with a ridiculous setback.

But I think a cylinder would be a better package and more choice in the transmission dept. Lighter and will easily make those power levels. Honda F20C a tranverse trans that fits it is available.

If you do a V6 I think it will easily satisfy the "Leave black marks from the exit of one corner to the entrance of the next". But with that blessing you will also need a tire sponsor and it will likely not corner as fast as a 4 banger. Although a 6 would not need as much boost to make those power levels, can you justify the weight? Assuming overkill is not the objective...

If you play the overkill card, isn't the Duratec what powers a Noble super car? Twin turbos of course. 450+hp? But I think that is longitudinal not transverse.

Your most limiting factor is going to be transmission. There are many good engines to choose from but so few manual trans that are plentiful enough to be the economical choice.  

Couple of cool choices off the top of my head:

• 3.0 or 3.2 Yamaha engines from the old Taurus SHO.
• 2.0 “KF-ZE” V6 from the Mazda Lantis.

Both are cool, sound awesome, and shouldn’t cost much.

RacetruckRon said:

+1 on the Honda J series. It's is probably the easy button here.

VQ35 came with a transverse 6 speed in a few Maximas.

Or there's always the good ole VR6, a bit heavier but solid bottom end and makes the noises.

+14 on Honda J series.  Manual trans are available but rare, but then manual trans are rare for everything aren't they?

bentwrench said:

Duratec 3.0 V6 would (blah blah words words) am putting longitudinally in an Amazon Estate with a ridiculous setback.

!

is there a thread?

LanEvo said:

Couple of cool choices off the top of my head:

• 3.0 or 3.2 Yamaha engines from the old Taurus SHO.
• 2.0 “KF-ZE” V6 from the Mazda Lantis.

Both are cool, sound awesome, and shouldn’t cost much.

This reminds me of a story a local club member told, of when he used to have a V6 SHO that he would take to track days, and at one track day he got the transmission oil so overheated that he ruined the heat treat on the ring and pinion and turned them into taffy.  And then the subsequent hilarity in trying to get back to NE Ohio from VIR.  And later, when he was having the differential swapped from the old trans to the replacement trans, his trans guy called him up to ask WTF happened, he'd never seen destruction like that before.

(He had a 3.2 engine swap, in the car that Ford knew the trans was so weak that they originally used a clutch that slipped in completely stock form)

bmw88rider said:

LFX/LGX Under a grand from the yard, already at the HP goal, easy to package. 

 

The DI part is a challenge though. If you care about looks then a SHO motor and a polishing wheel to make it all shine. 

The LFX also came to mind, although the problem is that they were never mated to a manual transmission in transverse configuration.

Gm 60 degree v6.  Can be had in 250 hp variants out of the box with no turbo.  Manual trans options are not rare.

Cheap!  Like 200 for a good running engine.  Reliable!  Just replace the intake gaskets before you plop it in.

NordicSaab said:

Honda J motors is the first... and really only motor that comes to mind for this. 

Mitsu 6g72 could be good, but the transmissions are weak. 

You know, I take back my comment about the 6g72. It could actually be a very good fit here. Manual transmissions were fairly common and the engines came in a SOHC.DOHC, and TT DOHC variant.  Aftermarket is strong, and can support as much HP as you heart desires.  The transmissions were only weak because they were beat on by pissed off teanagers in a transverse engined 3400lb car.  You reduce the weight, a lot of your problems go away.     

The 05 Altima SER I am currently driving has 260 hp and a six speed.  The pavement is too cold to use full throttle before third gear so far.

Knurled. said:

bentwrench said:

Duratec 3.0 V6 would (blah blah words words) am putting longitudinally in an Amazon Estate with a ridiculous setback.

 

!

 

is there a thread?

Yes. Please.

wvumtnbkr said:

Gm 60 degree v6.  Can be had in 250 hp variants out of the box with no turbo.  Manual trans options are not rare.

 

Cheap!  Like 200 for a good running engine.  Reliable!  Just replace the intake gaskets before you plop it in.

Came here to say this, mostly the later gen 3.8's. Cheap, pleniful, reliable, can handle good power, good aftermarket, and easy tuning with the stock ecm. Also there are 4, 5, and 6 speed manual transmissions available as well.

I would say the Honda and Nissan engines have the edge in the sense that either one has plenty of proven recipes to make 350hp without boost. If you want to talk about reducing failure points, removing turbos from the equation is priceless. Plus in a car that light, you're not going to want all the torque that a turbo would have you making. 

Also, as far as mitsubishi transmissions there are some pretty heavy VR4s going really fast on a stock transmission hooking through 4 tires. Cut the weight and driven wheels in half and you're basically now up to 'invincible'.  FWD trans is same as AWD just without the tcase hanging off.

As for the GMs, 3.8s are 90 degree motors. The 60 degree motors are the 2.8/3.1/3.4/3.5/3.9.  The later 3.5 and 3.9 with an aftermarket cam are really strong and pretty reliable, but not quite on the power level of all these other 24v engines we've been talking about.

NordicSaab said:  The transmissions were only weka because they were beat on by pissed off tanagers in a transverse engined 3400lb car. 

Some pissed off tanagers:

I'm sorry, I had to do it.

How about a VW VR6 motor? They have manual transmission options and come in different power configurations and can take boost.

I vote for the 3.6 VR6 from VW.  300 naturally aspirated hp out of the box and makes the best noises.   And a single exhaust manifold eases your packaging issues.  Manual trans available if a bit uncommon.

in reading about that Saturn Redline I saw it can get near 300 hp with that 4, and they do have a Z F  manual.

Vigo said:

 

As for the GMs, 3.8s are 90 degree motors. The 60 degree motors are the 2.8/3.1/3.4/3.5/3.9.  The later 3.5 and 3.9 with an aftermarket cam are really strong and pretty reliable, but not quite on the power level of all these other 24v engines we've been talking about.

the gen 2+ 3800's use a 60* bolt pattern so they can bolt up to any of the 60* manual trans available. Not to be confused with the early 3.8's which i think used the BOP pattern.

The Mazda V6 is a sweet little engine and sounds wonderful.

What about a straight 5 or 6 cylinder - some good engines available from Volvos in NA and turbo versions.

I would think the Ford Duratec V6 might be a good fit and give some decent power- they were 200 hp stock in the contour svt and I believe will bolt up to a couple rear drive manual trans.  

The Honda v6 is the other that comes to mind- I believe these also can be adapted to manual trans for rear drive.  There are folks adapting these into Miatas already so might be able to use that trans.

If you decide on a 4 cyl- the Honda S2000 drivetrain could be fun or a Honda K24 can be mated to a rear drive manual trans also...

Looks pretty neat!!