For a variety of reasons the town hall didn't happen. Figured I'd start a thread to address a couple thoughts.
1 - was my first Challenge as a competitor. Concourse was a bit of a mystery to me. Can we implement an option that if you want to take the default score, you can also give a presentation and get a theoretical judgement, potentially with feedback afterwards? You still get your default 12, but you learn what you could have done.
2 -and much more important. We are pushing our luck with drags at night. Every accident has happened after the sun has gone down, and every year we see a car get so squirrelly that everyone in the stands is hoping to not see an accident.
I have absolutely no clue what to do to address it, what can prevent it, but we are pushing our luck.
I am a complete newbie when it comes to drags, so this might not work at all. But maybe have the track shut down for 20-30 after sundown so the raceway team can clean and reprep the track to remove dew as an option?
In reply to Mr_Asa :
The point of the default Concors score was to reduce the load on the judges so they didn't have to put effort into judging someone who doesn't want it. Giving a score would not help reduce the load on the judges. Judging is really hard work (I've done it).
Seems to me if anyone wants a score, they can just ask for one (and not take the default)
I took twelve and got 3rd. I trophied with a default score
The method you suggest no longer works. The competition has evolved.
Mr_Asa said:I took twelve and got 3rd. I trophied with a default score
The method you suggest no longer works. The competition has evolved.
The concours is always a bit of a moving target. I will say a trophy with a 12 was due to only 5 competitors in our category with several opting for the 12.
Edit-They did reprep the track late-was that before or after the beetle went into the wall?
To be clear, i was suggesting this for newbs to the Challenge.
MrJoshua said:Mr_Asa said:I took twelve and got 3rd. I trophied with a default score
The method you suggest no longer works. The competition has evolved.
The concours is always a bit of a moving target. I will say a trophy with a 12 was due to only 5 competitors in our category with several opting for the 12.
And I'm not knocking it. Gonna display the trophy with pride. But it highlights that something should change
In reply to Mr_Asa :
In this thread from $2017 is some VERY in-depth insight to Concourse scoring.
What i don't know specifically, but the current Challenge Rules should provide the answer, is if current criteria is the same as $2017
Mr_Asa said:I took twelve and got 3rd. I trophied with a default score.
This is a product of dividing the field into classes.
To your point though, I would recommend newbies to follow the judging around; watch and listen, then study the results. I took the twelve my first year, and did exactly this to understand the Concours better.
I screwed up and didn't attend. Just bad planning on my part and there were plenty of opportunities like the arrive and drive VW GTI Dyintorace posted in the Cars for Sale forum. I completely botched that up. [facepalm]
That said, a coupla things:
1. It would be great for those of us scoring at home if there could be dynamic scores posted during the event. I really wanted to know who was fastest in each element of the event and there still isn't a full results sheet posted for each class as of 6pm EDT. Posting Saturday times during and after the Auto-X and Drags would be marvelous. This may also improve event visibility but that may just be me.
2. A legend of what each class posted in the the thread would help. In the pictures there were a number of big dollar cars but I have no idea what their times were relative to the $2000 cars. I guess I need to go back to the rule book and find out what's what. It would be great to have that info in the thread.
3. The pictures were great. Some kind of description would make them even better. It looked like the Pink Rangerus got lotsa Auto-X runs but I have no idea why that was...
4. I agree with Mr. Asa, nightime drags if there's a possibility of damp track can be a serious issue. Here in California we don't have that problem but I imagine things are different in the middle of Florida.
Thanks for putting this together for us. I'm hoping to make it next year.
I brought it up with Tom but tech inspection took a major downturn after the pleasant results last year. I'll still build to the rules because I like me like I am not broken. It does give an advantage to the teams that don't spend the time and budget to make their vehicles safe.
Why do we tech helmets, then not apply any sort of PASS marking to those helmets? That surprised me.
In reply to Stampie :
Same. They didn't even pop my hood, just took my word for it that it was a bone-stock cop car with dual exhaust
Agree on tech. Helmet and five decals, pass. No hood, lug nuts, looking at tires, etc.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
From what I hear there was pretty much no battery inspections at all.
John Welsh said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
In this thread from $2017 is some VERY in-depth insight to Concourse scoring.
What i don't know specifically, but the current Challenge Rules should provide the answer, is if current criteria is the same as $2017
I'm honored that you brought that back from the way-back machine!
In reply to SV reX :
I extensively use the Watchlist function of this board which is basically internal bookmarking.
To anyone who plays The Challenge, this thread is gold.
Several of us had an interesting discussion over "taking a 12" in the concours. It's not possible to take a 12 in the drags or the autocross. Also, sometimes taking a 12 gives a competitor a higher score than some who do not take a 12.
some ideas on how to fix:
taking a 12 becomes taking a 0.
taking a 12 becomes taking 1 less than the lowest scored concours that year.
maybe it doesn't matter, since it's probably not possible to make the overall podium with a 12 in concours.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
I thought it was interesting that y'all still came over and said hi and talked about the car a little anyway.
My feedback as a long-time competitor:
maschinenbau said:My feedback as a long-time competitor:
- The event schedule (Friday parking lot social, Saturday racing all day, Sunday show/mingle/awards) continues to work well. I really like this schedule and hope it doesn't change, other than maybe ending a little earlier on Sunday. Of course the autocross ran later than the original posted schedule, but I think the "fun runs" are a perfect time buffer for that so I ain't even mad. Great job GRM staff.
- I LOVE LOVE LOVE not having to work the course as a competitor. With both autocross and drag on the same day, that's a really tough long day, especially for teams with complicated unreliable cars. I was working on a fellow competitor's car for over an hour after my runs were done, and still had time to go out for dinner before drags.
- The physical layout of the event also continues to work very well, with the autocross grid in the drag staging lanes. Much better than the old days of autocross grid being way in the back of the parking lot, and much better for spectators and bathroom proximity.
- Rain killed the cars and coffee, but hopefully that grows to a wider audience for next year.
- I think drags went well, even despite the wreck. The 1 hour of prepped lane always causes a bit of wait time for the unprepped lane at first, but for the other 2 hours I was able to run as much as I wanted, and still had time to spectate.
- I don't think night/cold track has ever caused a wreck at the challenge, it's just the nature of drag racing lightweight stiff cars on autocross tires.
- Bill as the grand marshall (and just having a grand marshall in general) was great! I got to bother him instead of the busy GRM staff, and he quickly got me my answer. Good idea.
- Tech inspection... happy to discuss more offline.
- Concours: I think it still works, even with the 12 as default score. At most I would change it taking the "10" or something lower.
Travis summed up my feelings on this event schedule to a tee.
As far as the night drag racing causing issues, keep in mind the track does weekly test and tune events at night all year long without major problems. If it was unsafe or less than ideal that would not be the case.
Do we get to see our concours scores? Probably too late but notes from judges for next year would be a great benefit
I shall step off my soapbox on tech stuff that I've shouted from for the last 10 years. It is what it is, and I will continue to build cars to the letter of the law in regard to the nhra safety rules. This is so, if E36 M3 goes sideways, I can still walk back to my kids. If anyone chooses not to abide by the safety rules and gets injured because tech was lax, that's on them. If said person injures anyone else in the process of being unsafe, THEN they and the tech people will have a big problem with a big human.
In regards to the concourse last year a score of 6 was given to a first time competitor. My first year I didn't even put my car in. I did watch and learned that I had a lot of work ahead of me to have a presentable car. As a form follows function guy that makes a 12 score look attractive. Do I think I could achieve a better score than 12? Possibly. I am definitely still learning the ways of the concourse!
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