NGTD wrote:
Gasoline wrote:
Trackmouse wrote:
In reply to Gasoline:
That is neat. While I loved the vr6 in our old Jetta, I'm quite jaded by any vw. Ever.
I'm jaded too. Get one out of an Audi. Its like having to consider a wife's pretty sister.
Audi V6's are NOT VR6's. Completely different animal.
Yep. But to confuse things, when the VR6 is installed in Audis or Porsches (or Touaregs) they call it a V6.
I was going to post a Cayenne engine but I couldn't find one that showed both "V6" and the telltale staggered spark plug boots. Or the manifolds.
dean1484 wrote:
I was working on a I5 in a 2003 Volvo xc70 that is a 2.5l turbo. Any potential for one of these?
That engine (and the four, and the inline six from the 960 and S80 referenced upthread) is known colloqially as the whiteblock. There's some potential but not as much as you'd think.
At least with the fours, the cylinder liners are known to crack once you get beyond the capabilities of the stock turbo. But I've seen reference to more than one 300whp 5 cylinder, so maybe the 2.4l fives had meatier cylinders.
It looks like you can't go too much larger with the camshafts because the valve cover is also the cam caps assembly and it's rather low. So ultimately you can't make much more power than stock except for boost, which is kinda lame.
Wow, great ideas here.
For all interested, this was a thought exercise for an mg. Mga in the classifieds or the mgb I have in my garage that needs new propulsion.
Keep em coming!
People stick RB engines into many vehicles. You could look at one of those.
RBs are like 33 inch in length maybe less
Same length as that Volvo engine about except many more RWD trans options
singleslammer wrote:
Other than cheater options and motorcycle engines (again cheater options as no way to mount a car transmission onto), you are probably looking at some of the Brit sixes. I know that the ones used in some of those older British convertibles are much smaller than their German and Japanese relatives.
They also have several issues. No overhead cams, much older tech, less power, no EFI if he wants that, etc. Even picking up a L28 would be an improvement.
rcutclif wrote:
Wow, great ideas here.
For all interested, this was a thought exercise for an mg. Mga in the classifieds or the mgb I have in my garage that needs new propulsion.
Keep em coming!
Do you need a 6? I recently built a head for a 4AGE powered Spitfire.... it goes 0 - 60 in 6 seconds 
I'm willing to bet the Daewoo XK6 has the same bellhousing mating pattern as a same-era Ecotech inline-4. Meaning there's cheap 2wd truck parts hanging around waiting to make that swap easier. Daewoo is simply mopping up the competition on this one!
Knurled wrote:
NGTD wrote:
Gasoline wrote:
Trackmouse wrote:
In reply to Gasoline:
That is neat. While I loved the vr6 in our old Jetta, I'm quite jaded by any vw. Ever.
I'm jaded too. Get one out of an Audi. Its like having to consider a wife's pretty sister.
Audi V6's are NOT VR6's. Completely different animal.
Yep. But to confuse things, when the VR6 is installed in Audis or Porsches (or Touaregs) they call it a V6.
I was going to post a Cayenne engine but I couldn't find one that showed both "V6" and the telltale staggered spark plug boots. Or the manifolds.
I'm no expert, but I still kinda think the VR6 called V6 (as Knurled commented) could be had in an Audi A3? TT? Q7?
In 2001, the VR6 was enlarged to 3.2 litres, to create a limited-production, high-performance, 168 kilowatts (228 PS; 225 bhp) version of the New Beetle called Beetle RSi. The Beetle RSi was the first production vehicle to use the 3.2 litre 24-valve VR6 engine.[citation needed] This engine was later used in the Mk4 Golf R32, and was also introduced in the original Audi TT. According to Volkswagen Group, these variants produced 184 kilowatts (250 PS; 247 bhp) in TT trim (engine ID code: BHE), and 177 kilowatts (241 PS; 237 bhp) in R32 trim (engine ID code: BFH/BML). The then range-topping 3.2-litre VR6 was later used in the current Audi A3 and the Mk5 Golf R32.
the 2JZ (no E36 M3) is, according to the internet, as follows:
Head
8 1/4" wide (edge to edge)
30" wide (edge of stock twins to edge of intake manifold)
Engine
31" long, pulleys to starting edge of bellhousing (end of block)
27" tall, bottom of pan to top of valvecover
Oil sump
11" long, starts 5" back from edge of pulleys
13 1/2" wide
oldeskewltoy wrote:
rcutclif wrote:
Wow, great ideas here.
For all interested, this was a thought exercise for an mg. Mga in the classifieds or the mgb I have in my garage that needs new propulsion.
Keep em coming!
Do you need a 6? I recently built a head for a 4AGE powered Spitfire.... it goes 0 - 60 in 6 seconds
Have you discussed this here? I gots to know. I may be having a brain fart.
In reply to edizzle89:
That's 6" longer than the Daewoo unit. The XK6 does give up .5 liters of displacement to the 2JZ and is probably not as physically strong. That said, the 2JZ seems to be about 150 lbs heavier than the XK6.
In reply to Gasoline:
Rule of thumb: If it is transverse, it is a VR6.
Longitudinal... iffy. They have put VR6s in A8s overseas. (Ya rly) I'm pretty sure all gas V6 Touareg/similar are VR6 and Diesel are V6. I think they made Diesel V6 trucks... or maybe I'm confused again...
But for certain, they never put a V6 in a transverse.
Just for reference:
Mercedes Benz M103 12 valve is a hair under 30" from bell housing mounting face to the forward face of the pulleys. The later 24V M104 is the same size. I understand the 1JZ and 2JZ motors used these MB engines as design inspiration and as such are roughly the same length.
I want someone to grab a wrecked suzuki Verona (Daewoo) with the tiny 6 cylinder. It is a modern 150 hp straight 6 the size of a 4 cylinder. It should sound awesome (should) and it is going to be stupid cheap.
In reply to singleslammer:
The Verona six is not all that short. If it is as short as a four, then it is being compared to a really long four, like an early Tempest's 194ci "half a 389" four.
I've seen exactly one, and I spent most of my time looking at it wondering who Suzuki bought the engine rights from.
In reply to Knurled:
Page one says that it is shorter than an ecotec. Grant it, that is Internet measurements do we can't really trust those.
I would have a hard time believing shorter than an Ecotec. Mainly, because Ecotecs max out at about 2.5l. If you add more cylinders to the same length, the max displacement gets smaller because while you may get more cylinders, the bores have to go smaller and the area of a cylinder is the square of the radius. Or, more easy to visualise, smaller number of bores means they can stick out to the sides more. (Imagine a one cylinder engine with a bore so big it needed a 20" long block)
I used to know an engineer as a child who would ask me nonsense questions that were somewhat though provoking. As I helped him change the starter in his van (an '81 Dodge with a slant 6 and an overdrive 883, with a cantilever shifter like a Cobra) he pondered at me: "Why didn't they make a 225 cylinder engine with 1 cubic inch per cylinder?" It would be HUGE, that's why!
Now, maybe the engine and transmission assembly is narrower than an Ecotec and transmission assembly, which I would accept with no question, because the Verona is not a particularly large car.
Vr6 is the best thing, ever, but limited options for a trans for rwd.
Long mounted motors are found in the Touareg, q5, q7 and cayanne. Transverse in golf/jetta, b3/b4/b6/7 Passat and cc, r32, and a3.
VR6 is the best thing if you like awful combustion chambers and poor cooling. "Great drag race engine, horrible endurance engine"
Also they sound like poo. There, I said it, I ain't taking it back 
I only need them to last for 10 seconds. 
The sound comment, fighting words!
There's a picture of the underhood area of the Suzuki Verona in this...... http://annarbor.craigslist.org/cto/5169932697.html
It looks relatively short. 2.5 liter and 155 HP doesn't sound very impressive, but I'll bet it's leaving some potential on the table.
Edit: It's claimed to be 642 mm long. Bore centers are 83 mm. Sounds interesting....
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=Daewoos-New-InLine-Six&A=1408
In reply to Knurled: How can you not like his sound?
https://www.youtube.com/embed/JuGFyLW2iA0
In reply to DeadSkunk:
Unless my math is wrong, that means there's 6mm of "meat" between each cylinder. If you assume a full 10mm of bulkhead at either end of the XK6 block there's still a bunch of length for accessories and such at one end, like nearly 200mm. Not sure what rebuilding one would be like; I don't see how you could get much of an overbore into this thing.
In reply to pres589:
The article I attached says the bridge area between bores is 6mm, so you are correct. When you look at the picture of the block, sans head, you can see that. I'm intrigued by small straight sixes for sports car use.Wouldn't a staight six be fun in a slighly longer NA/NB Miata? (and all the LSx guys will now chime in)
