History in the Making: Russian Invasion

stroker said:

tuna55 said:

stroker said:

It's a shame we have to factor the likelihood of reports like these being nothing more than clickbait BS...  

The entire news cycle for any story as far back as I can remember is subject to the same thing I think. It's important to verify and get your news from a few different sources no matter what, but especially in the age of Twitter, when basically anyone can post basically anything and say it's whatever they wish. Of course, bare propaganda is hard in such an age, which is why Russia is failing so very badly at it. I am sure Ukraine isn't 100% innocent in trying to drum up support, but we can find enough reports of the same thing saying similar things with pictures or video or both that it seems more reasonable.

 

I agree, though. It's hard. Raising kids in today's news cycle is interesting.

At least we didn't have to buy a newspaper for the privilege, though.  :)

I totally buy a real newspaper for my kids to read the news for exactly this reason.

Already seeing unconfirmed  video clips of "troops" being rounded up amid protests and herded onto buses.  Should make for a very committed untrained force...

So all the "news" feeds I'm seeing are shrieking about the possibility of Russia nuking somebody (either Ukraine or the UK), for some reason.   What happened to the unwritten rule that Members of the Nuclear Club "shall not nuke non-nuclear powers"...?  Internationally the US is clearly expected to follow that policy, why is there no automatic expectation of the same from Russia?

93EXCivic said:

In reply to 02Pilot :

I mean what you say makes sense but neither of us believed Putin would actually invade Ukraine either."

I did but y'all though I was dumb.

It's because Put Put made another one of his comments, and it has the predicted effect, exactly what he wants.

He said something along the lines that because the West is constantly talking about nukes (uh yeah, because you keep bringing it up) that they have nukes also and the west should be aware, and afraid of that.

It's a bit of a "my dad can beat up you dad" kind of argument, essentially as irrelevant, and just that childish.

84FSP said:

Already seeing unconfirmed  video clips of "troops" being rounded up amid protests and herded onto buses.  Should make for a very committed untrained force...

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

stroker said:

So all the "news" feeds I'm seeing are shrieking about the possibility of Russia nuking somebody (either Ukraine or the UK), for some reason.   What happened to the unwritten rule that Members of the Nuclear Club "shall not nuke non-nuclear powers"...?  Internationally the US is clearly expected to follow that policy, why is there no automatic expectation of the same from Russia?

The last act of the insane would be to "nuke" someone.   Putin's gotta know that Russia gets most of the fallout and  those of us in the west have more reliable & effective nukes than Russia. 

stroker said:

So all the "news" feeds I'm seeing are shrieking about the possibility of Russia nuking somebody (either Ukraine or the UK), for some reason.   What happened to the unwritten rule that Members of the Nuclear Club "shall not nuke non-nuclear powers"...?  Internationally the US is clearly expected to follow that policy, why is there no automatic expectation of the same from Russia?

News feeds shriek, as they always have. It's hard to sell ad space with headlines that don't agitate your audience into reading or watching or listening. 

Regarding not nuking non-nuclear powers, if the little weasel can sell the narrative that russia is actually fighting against a nuclear power rather than just invading a sovereign nation, that might let him justify doing whatever he wants "in defense".

It doesn't have to be factually correct for him to say it. It just has to be convincing enough to whip up support among his own people. 

stroker said:

So all the "news" feeds I'm seeing are shrieking about the possibility of Russia nuking somebody (either Ukraine or the UK), for some reason.   What happened to the unwritten rule that Members of the Nuclear Club "shall not nuke non-nuclear powers"...?  Internationally the US is clearly expected to follow that policy, why is there no automatic expectation of the same from Russia?

Remember when all of those world heads of state were in London a couple days ago?

bobzilla said:

93EXCivic said:

In reply to 02Pilot :

I mean what you say makes sense but neither of us believed Putin would actually invade Ukraine either."

I did but y'all though I was dumb.

Trying not to derail, but I just read the first 15 pages(beginning of thread to when the invasion began), while 02Pilot disagreed the invasion would happen, it wasn't vehement, and no one called you dumb.  I thought it was possible (even likely once Putin backed himself into a corner with his rhetoric) it would happen, but wasn't claiming certainty either way.

In other news, it does look like more protesters are getting detained, now that the war is going to affect more Russians.  Axios article.  There's also some more in there about flights out of Russia.

What is the response from the West if Russia uses a tactical nuke on Zelenskyy's headquarters? It might be hard to counter without elevating things ten levels. A tactical nuke in response would need to be launched into Russia, but the alternative to a tactical nuke lobbed at Russia would be what? Sanctions? More HIMARS? I hope we don't find out.

In reply to bearmtnmartin (Forum Supporter) :

Article 5 would likely be triggered if any detectable radiation ends up in a NATO country.  I also hope we don't find out.  Not sure what lengths NATO would go to, but I bet the Chinese would burn rubber backing off any support for Russia.

My suggestion (not saying it would happen) would be for the US and the West to destroy any and all Russian equipment and personnel within Ukraine (including Crimea and Donbas) using massive amounts of air power.   I am pretty sure we are capable of that, especially now.

Not sure if we should tell Russia that, but that seems to be the most practical response, to me.

As mentioned many time before, the reality of that happening is almost zero at this point, despite what PutPut spews out of his face hole.  If the Ukrainians go blood happy and start marching towards Moscow (very unlikely), the calculation changes a lot.

It's the end of Russia. You can't let him get away with it. If Putin nukes Kiev, we launch a stealth cruise missile into Moscow from our North Dakota MAFB B-52 hanging out over eastern Europe. I would let him know if I were Biden. We had to threaten Nikita Khrushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Wikipedia: List of nuclear weapons tests

Popular Mechanics: The Air Force’s New Stealth Cruise Missile Is a Go

Military.com: AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missile

In the highly unlikely event of nuclear first-use by Russia, the proper response can only be to sit back and let the consequences backfill the hole Russia has dug for itself. A military response, either in Ukraine or against Russia proper, is both unnecessary and dangerous. Simply announce total trade and financial services bans on any country continuing to trade with Russia and watch it shrivel up under near-total isolation. Even China isn't going to stay in Putin's corner if he breaks the nuclear threshold without very serious provocation.

Tit-for-tat escalation only ends with lots of cities turned into self-lighting glass-lined parking lots.

In reply to 02Pilot :

Or, we could do that. 

In reply to 02Pilot :

I am for this approach. When someone has prepared enough rope to hang himself with, and is actively hanging himself, there is no point to making him a martyr by shooting him. Just let him suffocate.

matthewmcl said:

When someone has prepared enough rope to hang himself with, and is actively hanging himself, there is no point to making him a martyr by shooting him.

Beautifully stated. I'm retaining that for my own use.

And, not that anyone asked, I agree. It looks for all the world that he's doing exactly that.

Yahoo.com: ‘The Time Has Come’: Top Putin Official Admits Ugly Truth About War

"Vladimir Putin’s defense minister sent a clear message to the people of Russia on Wednesday: Their country is at war not just with Ukraine, but with the entirety of the West.

“I cannot but emphasize the fact that today, we are at war not so much with Ukraine and the Ukrainian army as with the collective West,” Sergei Shoigu said in a televised speech, according to TASS."

"I cannot but emphasize the fact that today, we are at war not so much with Ukraine and the Ukrainian army as with the collective West,” Sergei Shoigu said in a televised speech, according to TASS."

Because the entirety of western Europe is fascist, naturally...

North Korea is now claiming they have not and do not plan to sell any weapons to Russia.  When Kim doesn't want to touch the Russians with a ten foot pole, you know it's going bad.

Nobody wants to be associated with a loser.

stroker said:

So all the "news" feeds I'm seeing are shrieking about the possibility of Russia nuking somebody (either Ukraine or the UK), for some reason.   What happened to the unwritten rule that Members of the Nuclear Club "shall not nuke non-nuclear powers"...?  Internationally the US is clearly expected to follow that policy, why is there no automatic expectation of the same from Russia?

The UK is a nuclear power.

Putin threatening nukes is a scare tatic (one of the few effective things he has left because whether we like to admit it or not it certainly is effective). If he was going to use nukes, why not use them when his troops were almost at Kyiv? The Russians would use chemical weapons before nukes too and have not resorted to that yet. Or for that matter used their TOS-1 system that I am aware of. If he was really planning on using them, why bother calling up more troops?

Also fear generates clicks so of course the news media is going to play it up too.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

I think the numbnut news writers were under the impression "UK" is the international abbreviation for Ukraine...