1 ... 197 198 199 200 201 ... 429
jmabarone
jmabarone Reader
11/9/22 7:43 a.m.
Karacticus said:
  

If there was a laser weapon that you could just shoot them with to kill them, it's also possible it might fall into the same (again, second hand, so I might be incorrect) category as a .50 caliber machine gun which is only supposed to be used against vehicles, not personnel. 

That's not actually a thing.  That reference comes from a manual where a .50 cal was used as a spotting rifle for an anti-tank weapon system.  The suggestion was made to not just to fire the .50 at people because it can give away your position.   If that was some "rule", there would be no Barrett and the use of M2s would be very heavily scrutinized.  

But remember the concept of wounding enemy combatants is preferred over outright killing them.  Except when you fight against an enemy that doesn't care about wounded fighters and keeps pressing the attack.  

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/9/22 8:28 a.m.

The Barrett is an anti materiel rifle, no?

I mean, it originally was made on a lark by a Vietnam vet who thought hey, wouldn't it be fun to make a rifle around this round?  But I thought that is why the military bought it.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/9/22 9:32 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

It's been said, Poland remembers September 1939. 

I am sure the Czechs remember when the European powers divided it up for Germany and told them about it after the fact, too...

 

I forsee bad blood between Ukraine and the West in general and the US in particular if they are sold concessions instead of total Ukrainian sovereignty.

Yep. Don't underestimate our ability to spend a bunch of money on a place then berkeley it up. "cough" Afghanistan "cough".

 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltimaDork
11/9/22 9:38 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The Barrett is an anti materiel rifle, no?

I mean, it originally was made on a lark by a Vietnam vet who thought hey, wouldn't it be fun to make a rifle around this round?  But I thought that is why the military bought it.

I think it was also getting used as a long range sniper rifle until more specialized rounds were adopted.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
11/9/22 9:47 a.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Correct. It was reaching out 1500-2k yards before it was common. In fact it still holds the record for longest sniper kill at 3800+ yards.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltimaDork
11/9/22 11:09 a.m.

Bombshell that is getting overshadowed by election news - The Russians have ordered a complete withdrawal from the western bank of the Dnipro, including Kherson. 

I wonder if it was just a matter of holding onto it long enough to prepare whatever defenses they could on the other side of the river, or if there was less thought involved.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/9/22 11:40 a.m.

Not really a huge surprise, considering they have been evacuating anything they can get their hands on out of the city.

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-abandons-ukrainian-city-kherson-151632010.html

"Having comprehensively assessed the current situation, it is proposed to take up defense along the left (eastern) bank of the Dnipro River," said Surovikin, standing at a lectern and indicating troop positions on a map whose details were greyed-out for the TV audience.

"I understand that this is a very difficult decision, but at the same time we will preserve the most important thing - the lives of our servicemen and, in general, the combat effectiveness of the group of troops, which it is futile to keep on the right bank in a limited area."

The big question will be is to HOW they will get out.  It's almost certain the Russians will take a huge beating doing it...   or, they will just sacrifice a bunch of the new "volunteers".  This of course will setup a very solid defensive position for the Russians once they get across the river.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/9/22 11:53 a.m.

Regarding the Garret 50 cal.  From I read it is a very poor sniper rifle because the entire barrel is part of the recoil mechanism making it impossible to make effective long range shots.  A bolt action will be far more accurate and apparently not that painful to shoot.  They used one on Mythbusters a few times and even Carrie shot it (not a large person).

I believe it was Carlos Hathcock who came up with the sniper 50 cal:

https://allthatsinteresting.com/carlos-hathcock

In 1967 GySgt Carlos Hathcock set the record for the longest sniper ... What sniper rifles were in the Vietnam War? - Quora

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltimaDork
11/9/22 11:58 a.m.

I saw they are destroying every road bridge they can in areas they are retreating from to slow the Ukrainian advance.  That should buy them some time to get more troops across the river, although I am sure they will get shelled heavily no matter what.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE SuperDork
11/9/22 12:58 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Especially with modern NATO artillery outranging theirs.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/9/22 1:08 p.m.

The latest from Henry Chang:

Ukraine - Day 257

Picking up on where the last essay's historical theme left off, the Battle of Kursk, we can examine how some of the tertiary events of that battle can indirectly inform us of what's happening today.

And what is happening recently in the Russo-Ukraine war? Not much movement in the front lines because of the Rasputitsa. Soldiers are complaining of trudging through mud up to their knees (though it's not like that everywhere). Offensive operations have largely halted since the vehicles can't travel overland. At least it's stopped most Ukrainian offensive ops.

Not the Russian ones. They're sending in their newly mobilized troops to the front in large numbers and they're getting killed in large numbers. Although I'm 100% behind Ukraine in this conflict, it's still dismaying to watch drone videos on social media and see the utter waste of life being thrust upon humanity by the Kremlin. Some of these units are sent to defend open fields with no tents, no sleeping bags, no food, no water, and most importantly and appallingly, no shovels. So they can't dig themselves trenches or foxholes. The drones hover far above them and they're eating grass, lying on the ground in all sorts of weird positions, trying to protect themselves from mortar shelling and drone grenade drops. In one drone vid, you can see a lot of them are already dead. When one of the live ones moves, the drone moves over him and drops another grenade. There's a puff of smoke and the dude doesn't move anymore. Another dude moves, same thing. There's no sound and the drone is far away, hundreds of feet in the air. So it's almost like a video game, but it's not. If the guys on the ground aren't getting killed instantly, they're dying painful deaths. War is always painful, killing the enemy necessarily involves mutilating them physically.

The mobilized troops aren't always in a hopeless defensive position. Most of the casualties are happening when they're sent on no-hope-of-success offensives. The Russians have set up conditions just like the penal battalions in WW2, but maybe worse, because now they have 2 lines of friendly units to kill the penal battalion instead of one. The first line is supposed to attack, the 2nd trench line is set up to kill the first line if they retreat. The 3rd trench line is set up to kill both the 1st and 2nd trench lines if they retreat. They're just sending troops on the same attack, day after day.

There's competition in Russian military forces for political power. There's the regular Defense Ministry forces (which are plagued by corruption and mostly incompetent) and there's Prighozin's Wagner Group mercenaries. The mercenaries are more motivated, but their tactics aren't any better. They've been taking in the convict (from prisons) mobilized troops and sending them on attacks everyday on Bakhmut (eastern Donbas front) for months. The speculation is Wagner is doing this for political reasons rather than military. They want to be able to say they're advancing while the Defense Ministry's troops are retreating on all other fronts. The Defense Ministry, in turn, is sending the newly mobilized units to attack piecemeal, before they've been able to build up enough forces to achieve any sort of operational success. The result of these politcal plays is: military failure and tons of newly mobilized, untrained, dead Russian soldiers.

Prighozin is jockeying for power in the post Putin world. The players in the Russian Game of Thrones are Prighozin, Sergei Shoigu (Defense Ministry), Valery Gerasimov (Defense Ministry), Ramzan Kadyrov (private Chechen army), and Viktor Zolotov (Rosgvardia). Maybe Alexander Bortnikov (FSB) should be in there, but I discount the intelligence service because they don't have the firepower of the other players. In Russia, it's firepower that matters.

History doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes. The attacks by the newly mobilized soldiers are so reminiscent of the penal battalion attacks in the Rzhev-Viazma salient northwest of Moscow 80 years ago where over 2 million Soviet soldiers perished. At Rzhev, Stalin sent in the penal battalions as soon as they arrived on the front and, just like today's Russia, before they had built up enough forces to achieve operational success. The bodies piled up in no man's land to the extent that Soviet soldiers were attacking over the bodies of their dead comrades killed in the days, weeks and months before. It went on for 15 months and despite having enormous fortifications, the Germans were rattled enough that they conducted a successful orderly withdrawal (very, very hard to achieve, hard to get soldiers to not rout) out of the salient so they could shorten their line. A few months later, the Battle of Kursk (referenced in the last essay) happened, culminating in the aforementioned Battle of Prokhorovka. It was the largest tank battle in history and the Soviets took huge losses, they lost 400 tanks on July 12, 1943. The commander of the Soviet armored force at Prokhorovka was Pavel Rotmistrov. To Stalin it looked like the Soviets were defeated as the Germans held the battlefield, but sitting in the Kremlin, Stalin had no idea how heroically the Fifth Guards Tank Army had performed (some of the T34s actually rammed the superior German Tigers at high speed, killing both tanks) and how the German offensive power was irretrievably broken. Stalin ordered Rotmistrov be arrested and was planning on having him executed but chief of staff Aleksandr Vasilevsky talked him out of it.

The next major engagement on the Eastern Front was Operation Bagration the next summer. The Soviets initially planned for a single breakthrough but General Konstantin Rokossovsky argued strenuously for a double pincer attack. The other Soviet officers would sit, stunned, as Rokossovsky arged against Stalin. Nobody argued against Stalin and lived. Rokossovsky had been caught up in the officer purges before the war started and when the Soviets realized they needed military men who actually understood what they were doing, they called Rokossovky out of prison. He had been tortured, his fingernails were missing, his fingers were broken as well as some of his ribs. He later told his daughter he always kept a gun because if they ever came to arrest him again, he was going to off himself.

After Stalin had asked Rokossovsky to sleep on it three times and Rokossovsky always came back with, "two break-throughs, comrade Stalin, two break-throughs", Stalin finally relented. Rokossovsky got his way with the understanding that if his plan failed, he was going to be on the receiving end of the firing squad.

The offensive was an overwhelming success, it went far better than anyone could have hoped. Hitler gave the ridiculous order for the defenders to stand fast and the German Army Group Center was annihilated as they were repeatedly surrounded and liquidated. Again, logistics. If your logistics get cut off and you run out of ammunition, you, in the words of a modern youtube pundit, " are no longer a soldier, you are a homeless person."

How do the stories of Rotmistrov and Rokossovsky apply to this war? Putin has been rehabilitating Stalin in Russian education and Russian public discourse. He's made a modern version of the penal battalion. He doesn't have Stalin's NKVD, but he has something new, the Rosgvardia, a 340,000 strong internal police force newly formed under Putin's watch.

There has been so much talk of how Putin needs an off-ramp, otherwise, if he loses this war, he's finished.

I don't believe that to be true.

Stalin was going to execute both Rotmistrov and Rokossovsky (if Bagration went south) because the Soviet Union was truly in an existential conflict in WW2. Stalin, and everyone in the Soviet Union, needed performance out of their military, otherwise they were going to be exterminated. 6 million Jews died in the concentration camps, but so did 6 million Slavs.

Putin, who strives to emulate Stalin and any number of czars before him, does not demand performance because *this is not an existential war for Putin*. If it were, he'd have already shot both Shoigu and Gerasimov due to terrible performance at least 6 months ago. Instead of doing that, he's letting a Defense Ministry/Wagner Group competition play out. They're not 100% trying to win the war, they're 50% trying to win the war and 50% jockeying for power. It's a hedge on Putin's part so that if things really go south, he can blame one of them publicly and that'll be it, the defeat won't have been his fault. Putin's play is to flood Europe with Ukrainian refugees, try to freeze Europe in winter and hope that Western military aid to Ukraine ceases.

It's not going to work. Western aid will continue no matter how cold Europe gets.

The other reason I don't believe Putin needs an off ramp is there is no mechanism to displace him. The Rosgvardia (again, 340,000 strong), is run by Putin's former bodyguard, Victor Zolotov. Apparently Zolotov is a meathead, his only redeeming value to Putin is he displays absolute loyalty. And that is what Putin values above all else, it's why his military sucks, it's why his intelligence has sucked, it's why his decision making has sucked and it's also why he will stay in power. The Rosgvardia is a modern day Praetorian Guard. It answers to no one else and no other entity can challenge it, not even Wagner. Wagner doesn't have the numbers.

So: don't worry about nukes. Don't worry about an off ramp. Make no mistake though, after this war ends, it's not going to be like before. We're going to be in a new version of the Cold War. It'll be Cold War Lite, because today's Russia isn't the geopolitical behemoth that the post WW2 Soviet Union was.

As for the map I posted, this is a map I lifted from DefMon3 on twitter. It shows the rail lines in green. I lifted it because I was unable to find another map which so vividly illustrates the rail supply networks relative to the front lines. I added the blue arrows, the blue X and the two straight red lines, the rest of it is DefMon3's work.

UAF has been in OPSEC mode for weeks now. They're preparing something while waiting for the Rasputitsa to subside and the winter campaigning season to arrive. The ground will harden and the offensive will begin.

To me, it makes no sense that they attack Kherson and the fortified lines there. The straight red lines to the south of the river are new fortifications manned by veterans who have been withdrawn from the west/north side of the river. Mobilized troops are in the other side and it's obvious what's going on. The Russians have their artillery on the newly fortified side of the river where they can be supplied and when the Ukrainians attack they're going to shell the hell out of the entire battlefield. That's why they have the newly mobilized soldiers there instead of the veterans. Russia doesn't care if those dudes die.

It'll be sort of like when Ramsay Bolton has his archers send volleys of arrows into the melee at the Battle of the Bastards, killing both the enemy fighters as well as his own. Ramsay didn't care, neither does Vlad.

Now, look at the green lines, the rail supply upon which the Russian military is so dependent. Why would they attack into the hellhole that will be Kherson when they could saw off the entire southern half of the Russian forces by attacking where those blue arrows are (the Zaphorizhia front)? If they cut off that east/west rail line and hit the Kerch Bridge, then the entire southern front collapses. Russia does not have the naval logistics to supply via Sea of Azov. All those soldiers, when they run out of ammo, will be homeless people in winter.

That would be the smart thing to do. I have zero information as to whether or not Ukraine will do that, or if the Russians are too strong in defense there and Ukraine will have to attack somewhere else. I do know that Ukraine has always done the smart thing in this war. That's part of what's allowed them to inexorably turn the tide. They have the will. They have ever increasing amounts of Western allied weapons. And they are always smarter. They are as smart as the Russian MOD is dumb.

My predictions are just speculation. As always, my information is incomplete and my conclusions could be completely wrong.

This is a stream of consciousness essay (not edited) so please excuse any grammatical errors.

 

jmabarone
jmabarone Reader
11/9/22 1:44 p.m.

^ That is exactly what I was thinking would be the most effective strategy a few weeks ago.  Anchor on the river and push straight south to the sea.  Then knock off the bridge (even if the pilots know it might be a suicide attack, I think they'd do it) and be prepared to walk to the negotiating table.  

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/9/22 2:43 p.m.

I have been also thinking the same thing (the theoretical Nut Punch), and I suspect the Russians are well aware of it also.  Any buildups should be rather apparent to the Russians also.  Of note is that there has been a lot of partisan activity in that exact area (Metropol).

The only good aspect for the Russians there I can see is that it's a pretty straight flight for Russian aviation (what is left) and could be supported from ships in the Sea of Azov (if they are brave enough to do that).

The other aspect to be aware of is that just to the left of the left most arrow is the large nuke plant (Zaporizhzhia) that has been a point of contention.  The Ukrainians could really loose that power, but one wonders if Russia would try and disable it if it looks like they will lose it.  The Ukrainians did recently try and take it with a small special forces style raid.

If there is to be any negotiation, the Ukrainians REALLY need to at least have a credible threat of defeating the Russians there because they really cannot afford give up that coast.

stroker
stroker PowerDork
11/9/22 5:00 p.m.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

do you have a link to this guy's blog?  I can't find it.

 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/9/22 5:37 p.m.

In reply to stroker :

Facebook only so far as I know.

https://www.facebook.com/henrychangofficial

 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/9/22 7:31 p.m.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

"The latest from Henry Chang:"

And thus, I can see why when the common folks finally rise up and get rid of these dick tator leaders, they bring out the guillotines. A lot of heads that need to roll.

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/10/22 12:05 a.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

"The latest from Henry Chang:"

And thus, I can see why when the common folks finally rise up and get rid of these dick tator leaders, they bring out the guillotines. A lot of heads that need to roll.

In theory, yes. But it tends to be more nuanced than that. The French Revolution happened partly because the general populace got so desperate that many were willing to risk death in order to affect change. Leaders of modern industrialized nations have generally learned from that and will do just enough to keep the average snope comfortable. Happy? No. But just comfortable enough they aren't willing to put their lives on the line to kick out the ones in power. 

02Pilot
02Pilot UberDork
11/10/22 6:27 a.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:
VolvoHeretic said:

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

"The latest from Henry Chang:"

And thus, I can see why when the common folks finally rise up and get rid of these dick tator leaders, they bring out the guillotines. A lot of heads that need to roll.

In theory, yes. But it tends to be more nuanced than that. The French Revolution happened partly because the general populace got so desperate that many were willing to risk death in order to affect change. Leaders of modern industrialized nations have generally learned from that and will do just enough to keep the average snope comfortable. Happy? No. But just comfortable enough they aren't willing to put their lives on the line to kick out the ones in power. 

Not only that, but there's the cultural aspect as well. The level of fatalism and ability to not just withstand but accept misery as the standard of living within the Russian populace is astonishing. Don't forget, there were several failed revolutions there before the Bolsheviks finally succeeded, and that was only after an earlier uprising had toppled the Czar and set up a weak caretaker government, and all of that was laid over the backdrop of the brutality of years of industrialized warfare.

The average Russian's attitude - at least within the middle-aged and older generations, and outside of the cities - is perhaps best summed up by the traditional response to a social inquiry about one's condition: "How are you?" "Not as good as yesterday, but definitely better than tomorrow."

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/10/22 10:09 a.m.

In reply to Ian F and 02Pilot :

Thank you both for using "populace" correctly and not "populous".

 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/10/22 10:33 a.m.

How many people stay with their abuser/lousy job/lousy life despite all the good reasons to try and leave or otherwise change? 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/10/22 11:36 a.m.

Looks like the Ukrainians are starting to roll up some of the outer Kherson areas.   I hear the Ukrainians are still rather suspicious that the Russians are trying to set some sort of trap.  The Russians actually doing what they say they are doing is always pretty suspicious. 

Of course... maybe the Russians realize that no one trusts what they say and they assume Ukraine will think they are saying is a lie and will approach cautiously while they retreat...

Then again... there is some historical precedent.  When the Russian retreated from Kyiv in 41 they left some very large radio controlled bombs in the town which they set off after the Germans took over.  The Germans, being predictably efficient, promptly blamed the Jews, and slaughtered thousands of them outside the city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar

Babi Yar (Russian: Ба́бий Яр) or Babyn Yar (Ukrainian: Бабин Яр) is a ravine in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv and a site of massacres carried out by Nazi Germany's forces during its campaign against the Soviet Union in World War II. The first and best documented of the massacres took place on 29–30 September 1941, killing some 33,771 Jews....

....Axis forces, mainly German, occupied Kyiv on 19 September 1941. Between 20 and 28 September, explosives planted by the Soviet secret police (the NKVD) caused extensive damage in the city, and on 24 September an explosion rocked Rear Headquarters Army Group South.[16] Two days later, on 26 September, Maj. Gen. Kurt Eberhard, the military governor, and SS-Obergruppenführer Friedrich Jeckeln, the SS and Police Leader, met at Rear Headquarters Army Group South. There, they decided to exterminate the Jews of Kyiv, claiming that it was retaliation for the explosions.[17] Also present were SS-Standartenführer Paul Blobel, commander of Sonderkommando 4a of Einsatzgruppe C, and his superior, SS-Brigadeführer Dr. Otto Rasch, commander of Einsatzgruppe C. The mass-murder was to be carried out by units under the command of Rasch and Blobel, who were ultimately responsible for many atrocities in Soviet Ukraine during the summer and autumn of 1941.

 

Blue flags are newly captured towns:

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/10/22 2:55 p.m.

Just a few hours later.  The Ukrainians continue to attack the bridge, and the Russians are now destroying critical civilian infrastructure in the city.... nice.

 

02Pilot
02Pilot UberDork
11/10/22 3:34 p.m.
Duke said:

In reply to Ian F and 02Pilot :

Thank you both for using "populace" correctly and not "populous".

As I remind my students, "Words mean things."

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
11/10/22 4:30 p.m.

Some notes:

The Russians may have laid mine fields outside of Kherson to slow the Ukrainians down.

The Russians look to be blaming the potential and threat of the Ukrainians blowing up the dam and flooding Kherson as a reason to abandon Kherson... except the Ukrainians never had the ability to do that, and any flooding would be on the eastern side of the river at Kherson where the Russians are retreating to.  Ah yes, that's the Russians we all know!

The Russians are setting up defensive lines and mine fields at the northern neck (entrance from the north) of Crimea and around Metropol (city south of nuke plant).  So... not exactly a move of confidence.

 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/10/22 5:50 p.m.

It would make no sense for Ukraine to blow the dam and the Rooskies know it. Also, the Crimean canal starts by the dam, so blowing it makes Crimea run dry. The only scenario where I can see the damn being blown is by the Rooskies if they were to loose Crimea, purely out of vindictiveness.  

1 ... 197 198 199 200 201 ... 429

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
GnO5W99o89CzP8D2jitEVkyPZuLrLRtP5QISA89c8XNsEbY2r24uwegOEMOWM3L5