Thank you, everyone, for continuing to remind my of the things I never loved about California.
My wife did her undergrad degrees at Berkeley and we lived in SF for a while. I have lots of friends and family in San Diego and LA /OC...
It really isn't a cheap option but there is some value in the scenery and the socialist state; probably not enough to make it worth it though.
In reply to SVreX :
I'm a bit of a quirky guy so I know that it what suits me might not be the typical answer so I love the input.
I'm really not trying to cultivate a collection but somehow I just flashed back to sunny days on my uncle's farm as a kid poking around all the cars, equipment and junk littered around the pole barn...
Delicate, but honest, question:
Is there a line somewhere that defines a transition to "Deep South" and all of the negative stereotypes that entails? I grew up poor white trash and too much of it brings up bad memories. I know that everywhere has good neighborhoods and bad ones too but I just hesitate a bit since I haven't been to many areas in the south. I will travel around a bit soon and see things first hand but I am curious about areas to avoid.
It sounds like there are pockets of cool stuff going on that I don't know much about.
My new adopted home (for the next few years) of OKC.......Tulsa transplant, is pretty decent.........although the metro area is large and spread out. By land area it's one of the largest citites in the country and still Top 25 in population I believe.
Plenty of museums and such, Paseo arts district, many other little cool funky districts scattered about town, OKC Thunder if you want some pro sports........OSU and OU football are both close if you like NCAA handegg games. Cost of living and taxes are quite. I recently bought a house just a few miles from work, 1800sq ft, 3/2/2, completely remodeled (new roof floors, paint, granite counters, etc) for $155k.
Drag strip in Norman, Hallett for HPDE/Racing fun, lots of AutoX either in stroud or 1-2 other locations in the metro, large cars and coffee type scene (if you're into that).
When I first got here I lived in a fancy downtown 1 bed apt with gated secured parking just minutes away from multiple bars, restaurants, entertainment, Chesapeake arena, the OKC bombing Memorial.......that was only $1k/month.
July/August are, ahem, HOT and humid. But we rarely get "real" wintry weather. It will be cold a week here and there from Nov-Feb, occasionally a dusting of snow. But actual real snow only happens every 3-5 years.
EDIT: As a Tulsa transplant, I like Tulsa better and the metro and downtown are much prettier. Tulsa has the 2nd highest concentration of Art Deco buildings in the country (behind Miami, FL) and also has a Frank Lloyd Wright house, many 20s era oil mansions, and the only Frank Lloyd Wright "skyscraper" is just up the road in Bartlesville.
In reply to tb :
I would say it depends on how rural the area is. I was born in Georgia and spent most of my early childhood in the Atlanta suburbs. The closest I got to the "Deep South" was a school year (77-78) in Cumming GA (which I understand is considerably more "suburbia" now than it was 40 years ago). I have lived in the Philly suburbs since 1980. In my experience with these places and visiting other cities, the suburbs of a major city are pretty much the same all over the country, with slight variations in accents and culture. General attitudes, things you'll see and way of life are all pretty damn close.
Likewise, if you get into central and northern areas of Pennsylvania and New York states, you can definitely feel like you're in the proverbial "Deep South". Just without the southern accents.
In reply to tb :
I think Ian is right- its a rural question.
But some of the great things you are thinking about are about being rural. That's why I suggested Aiken.
If you go into a rural area and start looking for all of the things you find negative, you will most definitely find them in excess. Aiken has those things too. But it also has other things you may enjoy focusing on.
You gotta take the good with the bad. Living in the Deep South has given me a deeper understanding of my own biases and limitations. If you are anything like me, there's a pretty good chance what you are describing is your own fears- fear of unknown, of being associated with "people like that", fear of not knowing how to handle myself...
I love a lot of things about Southern culture, and there are things I don't. My kids didn't turn out to be raging bigots because they were raised in the South. It doesn't rub off if you don't let it!
... in fact, I think my kids are MORE aware having lived in the South. They don't assume the world is a happy place full of unicorns and rainbows and that everyone should just hold hands and sing kumbaya.
My kids understand that there are good things and bad in everyone, and expect it. They know how to seek out the good things, and speak out against the bad. They are extremely well adjusted, and part of that has to do with the balance of things they were exposed to growing up. They know the value of the NRA, but also the importance of Black Lives Matter. They are independent thinkers.
If they were raised in a different place, they wouldn't have the same life experiences to draw from.
Thanks, Ian and Paul; I appreciate the replies. I think that you are both right in that I am unaware of rural and southern and harbor preconceived notions (we all do about something).
Sometimes I need people to tell me what I already know, helps me think
FWIW
My wife is a naturalized US citizen for 20 years but was born in China. I'm white so that makes my daughter obviously biracial and our marriage interracial. These are just my facts of life, I never think about it at all but sometimes it occurs to me that this is not the case for everyone else...
I grew up in San Diego. I'd love to move back there, but anywhere I consider "home" there is far outside my ability to afford it. The traffic there is also epic. It'd be managable since I ride a motorcycle and could lane split, but on days I didn't ride, it's horrible.
I live in Denver now, moved here in 2004. It's no longer a cheap place to buy a house, most decent homes are anywhere from $500-750k or more. Traffic here is definitely beginning to stack up as there's really only 1 North/South freeway and 1 East/West freeway. Luckily I don't live far from work, but if there's an accident, all bets are off. I would've liked to have more land and be closer to skiing/mtn biking trails than I am, I need to drive to both.
tb said:Delicate, but honest, question:
Is there a line somewhere that defines a transition to "Deep South" and all of the negative stereotypes that entails? I grew up poor white trash and too much of it brings up bad memories. I know that everywhere has good neighborhoods and bad ones too but I just hesitate a bit since I haven't been to many areas in the south. I will travel around a bit soon and see things first hand but I am curious about areas to avoid.
It sounds like there are pockets of cool stuff going on that I don't know much about.
I agree with the others that it is more a rural vs urban thing then a Deep South thing. I personally love living in the south. Sure there are problems but there are various problems where ever you go.
Two other Southern cities that may be worth a look. Asheville NC and New Orleans. Asheville has a great culture scene and some really good restaurants plus the mountains are amazing around there. But the airport might be problematic not sure. New Orleans is one of my absolute favorite places to visit especially for food and music. I really struggle to think of any where I have been in the US that has better food and music then New Orleans. But the flip side of that is it, it is miserably hot in the summer, the roads are just god-awful and the crime rate is a little high.
I think another thing I really like about Huntsville is it's location. 1.5 hours to Nashville, 1.5 hours to Birmingham, 6 hours to the beach, 6 hours to New Orleans, 5 hours to Asheville, 4 hours to Atlanta. So it is easy to make weekend or long weekend trips to those places.
Having a fairly similar job to your wife's (consulting, but in my case without the management part), I'd advise against Reno, NV. Yes, there is an airport there (I use it almost every second week after all) but unless your wife is flying to the handful of places with direct connections regularly (like Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Vegas, San Diego) there'd be a lot of connecting flights in her future. That said, I keep bumping into a lot of people who live around this area and have jobs that require a lot of travel.
Reno is also getting pretty expensive from a housing cost point of view. Granted, we moved into the area in 2010 so my view might be a little skewed and it's cheap compared to the Bay Area, but I find myself marveling at the house prices recently. Plus, it can get pretty cold in winter - granted, it's a dry cold, but 15F is 15F. Doesn't happen that often, though.
One of my colleagues lives in SLC and as long as one doesn't mind flying Delta, that's probably a better location from a pure travel perspective.
No one has mentioned Oregon, like northern Cali but cheaper I hear. Thoughts?
In reply to 914Driver :
I like Oregon, but not sure if I like it enough to move there or not...
Portland is great and I have friends and family there. Probably a good place to raise a child and the climate agrees with me in general. Being driving distance to places like Seattle and Ashland and Eugene is nice.
I wonder about the airport and the general stuff like crime, taxes and all the other stuff I don't know.
In reply to BoxheadCougarTim :
My wife loves the road and deserves support for her hard work, so this move is very much to keep her going strong. She figures on a couple more years of fun living the jet set life until our daughter needs to settle down and she will either go partner or jump ship to a client site.
I think we usually fly american airlines? Not sure, she (actually executive travel services, often) handles it all but we basically get vip treatment from everyone. We are very fortunate but the finer details of it all are all up to her.
Its a real pity about the not cold requirement or I'd recommend Detroit. Big hub, All Big time American sports are represent here if you care about silly games both pro and kids (sorry college). World class art theater, Opera, Symphony. Massive music and art's scene in general. It also has plays, any type of art theater you can think of. Every type of motorsport you can imagine is catered too. I think we may be over capacity with micro breweries right now, there has to be 30 in the metro area. Expanding food scene, we even have Michiln rated chefs leaving high profile restaurants in other cities to come and set up here where Michelin don't even come. There also great street food as well. There are enough amazing venues we get most big music tours coming here. We can't boast Broadway, but any smash hits on Broadway normally hit Chicago which is only 4 hours away for a fun weekend. Auto insurance is high, but the cost of living is low compared to most large metropolitan areas. Housing car run from dirt cheap to as much as you want. You can choose your cultural preferences with the various areas and suburbs. Close to water and anything else you can think of. It's just cold.
One thing to consider is your personal politics. I personally love Austin or Atlanta, they are islands of liberalism in deeply red states and much as I love the cities I don't know if I could live in a solidly red state. We have friends who moved from here to Austin about 5 years ago. As soon as their eldest graduates high school they are hightailing out of there to either Colorado or Oregon, they love the city, but can't take the state politics. This may or may not apply to you, or it could apply in reverse, but it's something to think about.
Much as we love Colorado, we've spent three two week vacations there over the last 10 years and are going back again, I have an issue with it being so far from water. I just can't picture being permanently that far from bodies of water you can't see across, it just doesn't compute for me. Likewise my wife couldn't handle the Pac NW. Too many overcast days, she needs sun if not heat. Having been born in the UK I can live with that, but it's a no can do for her.
I am definitely interested in car specific info if it is important. I think that moving to CA means both of my modified cars would be in trouble and not worth bringing. Going to AL I have no idea but I bet my lifted V8 american suv would fit right in... I've heard the UT highway patrol are not to be messed with but that is just anecdotal.
Thanks again for all of the help coming in
tb said:Delicate, but honest, question:
Is there a line somewhere that defines a transition to "Deep South" and all of the negative stereotypes that entails? I grew up poor white trash and too much of it brings up bad memories. I know that everywhere has good neighborhoods and bad ones too but I just hesitate a bit since I haven't been to many areas in the south. I will travel around a bit soon and see things first hand but I am curious about areas to avoid.
Yes, there is, but it also stops south of I-10, where you return to normalcy.
And here I thought "deep south" would mean the Florida Keys. Hey Pete, how's the Suburban doing?
What you are looking for is...Pittsburgh, PA. Cost of living and cost of housing are pretty low, and there is a diversity of neighborhoods to live in depending on your desires. Want city life? Move close to town in Oakland or Shadyside. Want to raise horses? 10 minutes from downtown and the airport and it is possible. Like the outdoors? Hunt, fish, hike, bike, kayak, swim...its all here with plenty of rails to trails as well. Like cars? We have two strong autocross options, and others within a short drive. We also have a full-on race track and the Vintage Gran Prix. Toss in and ATV park and a drag strip and a dirt track oval.
There is work in a lot of different fields, especially IT and Heathcare, and software and web stuff is growing exponentially here. We have a vibrant cultural scene, a children's museum, the Science Center and the SportsWorks...all great for the kids. The food scene here has exploded lately, putting us on the map for foodies and food trucks alike. We have rivers for water sports, and of course, the Steelers, Pirates, Penguins. There are great shopping options, the Warhol Museum, the Museum of Natural History and the Art Museum, the History Center...the list goes on.
Out airport is awesome and underutilized, expect short lines and lots of flights. We sit close to major East-West and North-South corridors, and you can access like 60% of the US population in less than 2 hours.
And if Amazon ends up here (we are still in the running) forget all of this and head to Cleveland.
On Politics:
Socially, we are both quite liberal. I'm more of a radical libertarian type where she is a rather reluctant democrat.
Economically, we are rather conservative and prefer smaller governments and less intrusion into our own affairs.
We would probably be quietly into a local country club, community pool or other such thing but we are not socialites nor big into drinking or partying too often.
tb said:FWIW
My wife is a naturalized US citizen for 20 years but was born in China. I'm white so that makes my daughter obviously biracial and our marriage interracial. These are just my facts of life, I never think about it at all but sometimes it occurs to me that this is not the case for everyone else...
My kids are biracial too
In reply to tb :
What areas have you lived? Your opinion of those areas?
I'm a southerner but have a unique perspective as I was army brat and grew up in georgia, texas, california, Germany , italy, japan, etc. As an adult I've lived in Queens, baltimore, DC, alabama, kentucky, Florida and finally settled in mississippi.
That being said, I understand your concern over deep south attitudes, however I would not be concerned over your interracial marriage. Most southerners do not think twice about caucasian/Asian unions. I suspect to some degree due to a large percentage of southerners military population and common occidental/oriental marriages. Even other mixed race marriages are widely accepted. Of course there are enclaves of bigotry but probably not much more than other parts of country. So I wouldn't let that concern me.
Have you ever lived in the deep south?
In reply to pinchvalve :
Yeah, you are right except for a few things. Having driven between Philly and Chicago so many times it has become like flyover country that I never got into and man does it get cold there!
tb said:FWIW
My wife is a naturalized US citizen for 20 years but was born in China. I'm white so that makes my daughter obviously biracial and our marriage interracial. These are just my facts of life, I never think about it at all but sometimes it occurs to me that this is not the case for everyone else...
Flip the spousal roles, and you've described my family. I'm the naturalized US Citizen, originally from Hong Kong, and we have two biracial kids. My family moved around a bit growing up so I've experienced rural PA, a small town in Mississippi, Philadelphia, and a medium size city in North Carolina in addition to my current home in Richmond. I'm late to a meeting right now but I'll come back to this thread later with some more thoughts...
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