Unhappy Retail Sales People

I'll ask again, what is up with this board lately? The level of shiny-happiness seems to be reaching previously untold heights.

The sanctimony is astounding.

In reply to joey48442:

I didn't say anything about being "privileged to sell my stuff". I said what's up with the "greedy corporate azzhatts are always the problem" attitude from folks in this thread.

Some companies are doing the best they can, and there is simply no money for raises.

You are right- neither survives without the other. So how about staff trying to help management make the company profitable instead of such an enormous majority of people bitching about what failures management is.

I doubt most of you would like working for my boss. Mostly because so many sound like they wouldn't like working for ANYONE.

I like helping my boss make the company better.

As far as the raises, when employees see the board get massive raises/bonuses while watching their own cut...........it doesn't pass muster.

z31maniac wrote: As far as the raises, when employees see the board get massive raises/bonuses while watching their own cut...........it doesn't pass muster.

Agreed.

But again, a generalization which does not apply to all companies.

Wise leaders in good companies will reward employees for their efforts.

Board members get compensated for their advisory input and business contacts they bring to the company. Not generally for profitability, efficiency, or hours worked.

Now at my fourth company, while under 30 years of age, I've got a hard time believing the board members are worth as much as the salaries they award themselves............vs the salesguys and managers who travel, develop new products and bust their a$$'s getting new clients.

Again though I'm just a young guy who doesn't know much....

SVreX wrote: In reply to joey48442: Some companies are doing the best they can, and there is simply no money for raises. You are right- neither survives without the other. So how about staff trying to help management make the company profitable instead of such an enormous majority of people bitching about what failures management is. I doubt most of you would like working for my boss. Mostly because so many sound like they wouldn't like working for ANYONE. I like helping my boss make the company better.

I have been in management for a little over a year and a half, and my time in retail has totaled around nine years. My management style is to make working in my department as pleasant as possible, while getting the work done. I have the lowest turnover in the store, and the largest pool of people wanting to transfer to my department because of it. Productivity is high and people are usually in a good mood. How do I accomplish this? I am honest with the people that work with me.

I want our operation to be profitable, but one great way to bleed money is to have people move to the competition because they are treated like commodities. Lost time from open positions, interviewing, hiring, and training is such a huge cost that it blows my mind that a company would rather compensate and treat an employee poorly and risk losing its best employees than compensate them well in the first place. The best employees are the first to leave, and when they leave, a lot of customers follow them.

That sounds like a winning attitude.

I hope no one is bashing you on internet forums for not giving raises, or expecting them to work.

MitchellC wrote: I want our operation to be profitable, but one great way to bleed money is to have people move to the competition because they are treated like commodities. Lost time from open positions, interviewing, hiring, and training is such a huge cost that it blows my mind that a company would rather compensate and treat an employee poorly and risk losing its best employees than compensate them well in the first place. The best employees are the first to leave, and when they leave, a lot of customers follow them.

Your attitude is getting rarer by the minute--at least from my experiences.

$10k junkets for managers while raises for hourlys are postponed, nonexistent or so miniscule they're meaningless--all while hearing "take everything back--we're a multi-billion dollar company"??? Brilliant.

When I left my last gig, I was a part-timer who was taken on literally to save their bike dept. They paid me well to do so and I did. Up 47% from the previous year. A couple of store managers later and my pay was resented and I was told I wasn't doing enough--when I was literally doing the job of a fulltime-bike tech, a part-time bike tech, a full-time fitness associate and a tennis racquet tech--in a part-time shift.

So when I left (in anger) l literally buried the place. A friend of mine who is still there told me my replacement lasted a month and his replacement lasted 2 weeks--right before Christmas season. He said that my former dept was in shambles. Their "need" to operate on as little payroll as possible cost them a FORTUNE this past Christmas season.

Yep, berkeley them in the arse.

The smaller places I worked for were always run better. Upper management was way more in touch with how things were actually functioning.

Oh yeah--and nothing more rewarding than selling $800 of bicycles/accessories and then getting minimalized with "did you get warranties on them???"

In reply to gamby:

In MY experiences, MitchellC's attitude is not so rare. I know LOTS of ethical businessmen.

My concern is that the attitude YOU are expressing in this thread is becoming increasingly common.

Tell me again how you think "berkeley them in the arse" is a constructive contribution to this thread, or ANYTHING for that matter?

Your attitude sucks.

SVreX wrote: In reply to joey48442: I didn't say anything about being "privileged to sell my stuff". I said what's up with the "greedy corporate azzhatts are always the problem" attitude from folks in this thread. Some companies are doing the best they can, and there is simply no money for raises. You are right- neither survives without the other. So how about staff trying to help management make the company profitable instead of such an enormous majority of people bitching about what failures management is. I doubt most of you would like working for my boss. Mostly because so many sound like they wouldn't like working for ANYONE. I like helping my boss make the company better.

I guess you did say privilege to upsell.

But seriously, in 4 years, I only lost 1 upsell contest, and we had a near constant contest going. And I was still told I wouldn't get a raise- no one would.

Joey

SVreX wrote: That sounds like a winning attitude. I hope no one is bashing you on internet forums for not giving raises, or expecting them to work.

I wouldn't bash him. I didn't like what was happening because while being as professional as I could, arriving to work on time, doing my job quickly, helping others with there jobs, having customers ask me if I owned the place because I was so attentive, have customers ask me why I don't fire that guy (meaning MY manager, because he was such a jerk to customers, and I smoothed things over, and the thought I was the manager) upsell constantly, have to talk customers out of "wanting to come punch that idiot who took our order in the neck" (who was, surprise surprise, the manager) and generally do things the best I could, I was told (by my registered sex offender of a district manager) that I would never, nor would any other driver, get paid more than minimum wage. And the reason they never got rid of the jerk manager? Cause he was the district managers brother in law, and kept the store awesomely clean. I would never bitch about a good manager.

Joey

SVreX wrote: In reply to gamby: In MY experiences, MitchellC's attitude is not so rare. I know LOTS of ethical businessmen. My concern is that the attitude YOU are expressing in this thread is becoming increasingly common. Tell me again how you think "berkeley them in the arse" is a constructive contribution to this thread, or ANYTHING for that matter? Your attitude sucks.

Let me get this straight:

His attitude sucks, because his new managers were envious that a part timer was getting "paid well", and demanded him to do more?

When he was already doing far more than his job description? As in, 4 jobs?

Competent sales people who are getting exploited by their good nature until they turn into unhappy shiny sales person should do exactly as Gamby did:

Bail, and "berkley them in the arse".

No, his attitude sucks because he had a bad experience which angered him and he now carries that anger into every conversation in an uncontrolled manner making generalizations about the world and all employers and what he allegedly "deserves".

But if you'd rather think inappropriate behavior and foul language is a good solution, good luck with that.

I'd hire joey48442, and do my best to reward him for his efforts. Great attitude. Unfortunately joey, it wasn't a good company. Good plan moving on.

Not so gamby. If that anger and attitude ever once showed through in even the slightest way to a customer (and I suspect it could have, considering how little it has taken to set him off here), I'd show him the door in a heartbeat.

^Amazing how you complain about his generalizations, then turn around and make your own.

SVreX, ever stop to think that gamby getting the shaft would be a really good reason to get torqued up? It happens. I had a service manager introduce a new pay plan which effectively cut my pay (and that of my co worker) 30%, I had been there nearly 5 years. She then wondered why both of us bailed immediately (effectively, WE fired HER ) and why she couldn't keep people after that. That went on for ~6 months after I left, then the owner of the dealership finally stepped in and fired her. I got a phone call asking me to return, uh thanks but no thanks. She went to work as a warranty clerk somewhere or other.

People are not machines. They have families and plans of their own. To dick around with someone's ability to provide for their family gets right at where they live and that is a hard thing for the drone to keep hidden, particularly if the boss is a psychopath who will berate the rank and file because the company's not making enough money then turn around and brag about pissing money away on toys etc. Seen that happen too many times.

SVreX wrote:

z31maniac wrote: As far as the raises, when employees see the board get massive raises/bonuses while watching their own cut...........it doesn't pass muster.

Agreed. But again, a generalization which does not apply to all companies. Wise leaders in good companies will reward employees for their efforts. Board members get compensated for their advisory input and business contacts they bring to the company. Not generally for profitability, efficiency, or hours worked.

Maybe not all.... but easily the VAST majority of the big box retailers, absolutely.

Any of the big shoe retailers. Best Buy. Radio Shack. We could be here all day.

There is ONE that has gotten it right, though. Frye's.

Retail in in the setting that this thread is about is quite possibly one of the E36 M3tiest jobs available. I'm absolutely not mad if the cashier is having a bad day. I'll either give them the info they're asking for, or i won't, and i'll go somewhere else. It's REALLY not that big of a deal.

I'm also with Gamby to a degree. Customers as a generalization are massive piece of E36 M3. Society as a generalization stinks like E36 M3.

SVreX wrote: In reply to gamby: In MY experiences, MitchellC's attitude is not so rare. I know LOTS of ethical businessmen. My concern is that the attitude YOU are expressing in this thread is becoming increasingly common. Tell me again how you think "berkeley them in the arse" is a constructive contribution to this thread, or ANYTHING for that matter? Your attitude sucks.

It's gotta be different generations or something.

I've NEVER met anyone like MitchellC that ranked above me in any part of the workforce. (Maybe they're out there, though, i'm pretty young, only been working for 10 years.)

The closest would be my direct manager, but i'm not in retail anymore, so does it count?

Gamby's scenario could be constructive. Maybe the company will realize their mistakes and become better for it? Although it doesn't seem like it. I feel no sympathy for them. Companies that treat their employees like that don't deserve to survive.

I've left a company, or at least a portion of a company a mess before. They had it coming. I have no regrets. They fired me because i made the most money in the department, with the least experience, and they screwed up when they forecasted a large call volume increase that never came.

They realized pretty quick that they screwed up after i left, from what i heard after. berkeley 'em.

SVreX wrote: How about OPPORTUNITY to upsell, or even PRIVILEGE? Crappy attitudes and lousy salespeople are NOT the same thing as upselling. It's the polar opposite. Good salespeople sell. Good companies allow good salespeople to sell well, and encourage them to upsell, and reward them for their efforts.

When I started at RadioShack, I sold a four phone family plan with four brand new phones. Awesome. I just made 95 bucks. Regular store stock didn't bring in nearly as much, but I'm a radio operator, so I love selling those. Thats a reward in itself. Phones take a little work, and half the time, the system goes down between Sprint out whoever.

One year later almost to the week, a four phone family plan. Awesome.... 45 bucks? Wait what happened? How important did they tell me selling phones was? Obviously not enough to even keep giving me the same amount. From that point on, I won't be pushing phones. In fact, I never did.

Rex, I'm sure you're a better manager than Sprint, AT&T, and RadioShack combined, but do you see where the bad taste comes from? My second job pays $8/hr and I love it. a good manager makes that happen.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

SVreX wrote: In reply to gamby: In MY experiences, MitchellC's attitude is not so rare. I know LOTS of ethical businessmen. My concern is that the attitude YOU are expressing in this thread is becoming increasingly common. Tell me again how you think "berkeley them in the arse" is a constructive contribution to this thread, or ANYTHING for that matter? Your attitude sucks.

It's gotta be different generations or something. I've NEVER met anyone like MitchellC that ranked above me in any part of the workforce. (Maybe they're out there, though, i'm pretty young, only been working for 10 years.) The closest would be my direct manager, but i'm not in retail anymore, so does it count? Gamby's scenario could be constructive. Maybe the company will realize their mistakes and become better for it? Although it doesn't seem like it. I feel no sympathy for them. Companies that treat their employees like that don't deserve to survive. I've left a company, or at least a portion of a company a mess before. They had it coming. I have no regrets. They fired me because i made the most money in the department, with the least experience, and they screwed up when they forecasted a large call volume increase that never came. They realized pretty quick that they screwed up after i left, from what i heard after. berkeley 'em.

Unfortunately, he probably won't get much higher in the company. Having worked retail during high school and college, I've learned that a lot of the issues are caused by customers. They generally disrespect you and treat you like crap. Go to a grocery store to see what I mean. Buggies are left in the parking lot, trash is thrown out, baby diapers are dumped in ash trays, and don't forget about the restroom.

"You're a clerk/pizza boy/whatever, I don't have to show common courtesy."

"I want the discounted price, but I don't want to sign up for a stupid card. Give it to me now."

"I want to use this expired coupon. Why won't it work? Stupid retail worker."

I can tell the SVreX is probably what I term "ignorantly disrespectful" to retail workers, at best. Obviously they are dense, otherwise they wouldn't be in retail.

Speaking of good/bad managers: I once got a phone call from my daughter's school, this was around 1:30 PM. She was running a fever of almost 103 and since I was closest the school called me (the now ex could not get there quickly, she was in some kind of seminar). I quickly passed on my stuff to my co workers, let the boss know what was up, etc.

I picked her up, she was listless and felt like she was on fire. I took her immediately to the doc, the diagnosis was early stage pneumonia. Antibiotics, bed rest, etc. The wife got home shortly after I did (around 5PM) and she had already let her boss know she needed at least part of the next day off.

The next morning I came in at 7:10 AM like I always did, the boss called me in his office. He did not ask about my daughter, he immediately said 'I lost half a day's production from you yesterday. I hope you do not plan to make this a habit'. WTF was I supposed to do, let her die so his farkin' numbers would look good? It was all I could do not to brain him on the spot.

That exchange is why I no longer work at the Jeep dealer. The unfortunate thing is more and more managers talk a good game but when it gets down to where the bear E36 M3s in the buckwheat employees are considered replaceable cogs. That gets telegraphed to the cog who wonders why he/she/it should work hard for some clown who ultimately doesn't give a rat's ass about their well being if it might affect the end of the month numbers.

Oh yeah, several years ago (1995) I requested a week off in August (I had vacation due) for a trip to Colorado. I made the request in writing per company policy in May. I paid for all kinds of stuff up front, two days before I was to leave the boss came to me and said 'you know, you sort of told me that you were going, you didn't really ask'. Really? A written request doesn't count? He then said 'You might not have a job when you get back'. Again, really? I said 'I guess that's a chance I will have to take'. I worked there for two more years.

Curmudgeon wrote: Speaking of good/bad managers: I once got a phone call from my daughter's school, this was around 1:30 PM. She was running a fever of almost 103 and since I was closest the school called me (the now ex could not get there quickly, she was in some kind of seminar). I quickly passed on my stuff to my co workers, let the boss know what was up, etc. I picked her up, she was listless and felt like she was on fire. I took her immediately to the doc, the diagnosis was early stage pneumonia. Antibiotics, bed rest, etc. The wife got home shortly after I did (around 5PM) and she had already let her boss know she needed at least part of the next day off. The next morning I came in at 7:10 AM like I always did, the boss called me in his office. He did not ask about my daughter, he immediately said 'I lost half a day's production from you yesterday. I hope you do not plan to make this a habit'. WTF was I supposed to do, let her die so his farkin' numbers would look good? It was all I could do not to brain him on the spot. That exchange is why I no longer work at the Jeep dealer. The unfortunate thing is more and more managers talk a good game but when it gets down to where the bear E36 M3s in the buckwheat employees are considered replaceable cogs. That gets telegraphed to the cog who wonders why he/she/it should work hard for some clown who ultimately doesn't give a rat's ass about their well being if it might affect the end of the month numbers.

Missing a day is missing a day; however, it was very unprofessional for him to do that. My old company used a point system for hourly workers. If they clocked in a minute late, 2 points were deducted. If they missed half a day, 5 points were deducted. A whole day was 7 points. No call no show? 11 points. Once 50 points were used, the employee was escorted out of the building by HR. No such rules applied to salaried workers.

rotard wrote: I can tell the SVreX is probably what I term "ignorantly disrespectful" to retail workers, at best. Obviously they are dense, otherwise they wouldn't be in retail.

Whatever.

My employees for the past 30 years would completely disagree with you. I have elevated over 20 of them to owning their own businesses and becoming my competition. Several of them are doing a lot better than I am. Every one of them has told me that I was one of the best employers they ever worked for.

But I can see there is no respect for any effort to encourage good business practices in this thread.

It's a 2 way street folks, but you are only in control of one direction.

You can choose to be as pro-active and responsible as you can for the side you can control (your own attitude and actions), or you can spend your energy bitching about "the man".

My business honors it's employees, customers, and creditors. We pay people on time, and encourage everyone to excel. We pay for continuing education, and always hire from within first. We treat everyone fairly, pay more than the local rate, and offer a good work environment. We recognize that everyone in the company has value, and brings different skillsets and abilities, and encourage them to grow.

I am also a staff member of another company, and run my department exactly the same way (while encouraging management to step it up and always be improving).

But if you'd rather bitch about "the man", and blame me for being part of the problem, have at it.

Hope it works out for you.

rotard wrote: No such rules applied to salaried workers.

Maybe because it would be illegal according to the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act to do so.

Just a thought...