Ok, so we are getting close to the end of the first Project Cars racing series; that means it is time to start discussing what to do next. While this discussion is primarily centered on the PS4 version, all opinions are welcome.
1.Getting more racers?
The ability to add bots to the mix is great. It ensures that you'll always have someone to race. However racing against humans is much more entertaining. During the first season there were 4 potential racers, but only 2 showed up. There are a couple thoughts on how to improve attendance.
- We can continue to haze the GT5 crew until they pony up and buy new wheels and join us.
- We can suspend the GRM centric league and join a series from another site (GTPlanet, etc) and just have a discussion thread here.
- We can open the series to participants from other sites.
2.What to drive?
This is always a lively debate.
- I think the GT3 cars are probably the best class in the game. You would think this would be the best option. My opinion is that I don't want to waste this class of cars on a 2 driver series. If we had a big crowd and could get a good variety of cars, I would be all for it.
- With a small group, the odds of a performance imbalance favoring 1 driver are much higher. If it is a small GRM only group, I think I would be in favor of a spec car (e.g. LMP2) or a specified car/track each round (e.g. Ruf GT3 @ Road America).
3.Format? Rules? Scoring?
I think this has actually been pretty good.
- We've been running 30 minute races, with either a 10 or 15 minute qualifying session (depending on lap time). In a series where we are not expecting pit stops, I think 30 minutes is a good time. I would be interested in running a slightly longer race, maybe 45 minutes, and speeding up fuel/tire wear to force pit strategies into the mix.
- The bots at 85% seem to be ok. They are fast on tracks we don't know well, and slow on tracks where we are good. I think Argo and I are getting to grips with the level of competition.
- The point structure seems ok. It's hard to know without more participants to expose other scenarios. We don't offer points for pole or condolence points. This first series has been reasonable in terms of competition.
Thoughts?
Although I love the idea of GT3, a spec race might be more friendly to getting more people involved. You guys have asked (badgered?) me enough to where I might pick up a 3 month subscription just to give it a few laps.
You two seem to be very serious in this. Setting down laps in the top 25 of some tracks globally. I can see why you want to practice for the upcoming racing league here.
I know Wednesday is a practice run but maybe a "pre-season" race on the final format. If you are going to add pit stops into the mix that is drastically different then how most people play. Might need to give them a taste.
Back to the GT3 - that is an interesting group of cars with about a 1.5 second spread in top 5 average best lap times. could be drivers but then again I think it is back to a open course car and a closed course car. If the series track balance is off, you will get blow outs.
Just my two cents.
Ok, with the Series 1 championship now over, we'll use the last round to begin testing a new series. The plan is to run GT3 cars at Watkins Glen next Wednesday. Here's the settings that we'll run:
- Practice: 30
- Qualy: 15
- Race: 45
- Bots at 85%
- Date: Current
- Weather: Fixed / Clear
- Start: 12:00
- Time Progression: 5x
- Tire wear: 3x
- Fuel usage: Real
Time progression should just make it look pretty, but the tire wear setting should force pit strategy to come into the series.
Flight Service wrote:
If you are going to add pit stops into the mix that is drastically different then how most people play. Might need to give them a taste.
I would actually say that pit stops make it easier for new drivers. Setting the race up to require a pit stop means that if you make a mistake and damage your car and have to pit (not that I've done that), your race isn't over. All the other cars are going to have to pit as well, so you'll have a chance to get back in the race.
If you look at the races where Argo and I each had damage, with the exception of 1 race, we each finished last and usually were not close to anyone else. That makes for a long lonely race. Adding a pit stop, at least gives you a chance to get back into it.
I've goofed off this morning a bit and ran a few laps at Watkins in each of the GT3 cars. I used Time Trial because it let me swap cars the fastest; also every car was run in the default setup. These cars are so much easier to drive than the Group A cars; they are stable and almost feel slower. It's a weird transition. Here's my thoughts:
- Audi: It feels light and nimble. Could be quick. My driving style will struggle with the lift-throttle oversteer tendency of the car.
- BMW Z4: This car I was immediately fast and comfortable driving. From a race standpoint this might be a good choice, but I suspect (once tuned) it will lack overall pace.
- Bentley: AHHHH GAWD THE STEERING WHEEL IS ON THE WRONG SIDE. Yea, I can't drive this car. I miss marks my miles and it messes with my brain.
- Caddy: It feels stiff and prone to understeer. Default gearing is very long and so the pace on my test laps was a bit slower than I think it could be when setup properly. I didn't really like the way it felt driving.
- Corvette: This was probably my second preference from a driving comfort. It feels good, it sounds good, it goes good. It acts like the Corvette you watch on the TV at all the races. It doesn't do anything wrong. Pace was good.
- Ginetta: This car is surprising. Don't sleep on it. It's fast. It has by FAR (like a long way) the best braking performance compared to the other cars. Default gears are short and the nose really likes to turn into corners. This could be the sleeper of the series. That said, it is a bit twitchy and is easy to make a mistake.
- McLaren: I don't really like this car IRL, but it drove pretty good. Felt balanced, good in corners and braking. Engine note is quiet and I kept hitting the rev limiter.
- MB AMG & SLS: Both the Mercs feel a bit slow (they're not, but they feel slow). The SLS feels completely flat at all times, stable, easy to turn where you want, full of low end grunt. The AMG feels similar, but less planted and more eager to turn.
- Ruf: I set one of my better times in the Ruf. I suspect it will have a lot of pace. With all the weight in the rear, you have to approach corners a bit different. This car's turn in response it the best of the group and with the right driver will be a tough fight for any of the other cars. Braking performance is probably second to only the Ginetta.
So thinking about what car I'll test next week, this is my current thinking:
- Z4 - the smart/easy choice
- Corvette - common? Good potential
- McLaren - with a good setup (it bottoms out like crazy at WG) it could be really fast
- Ginetta - could I keep it under control in traffic for a whole race?
I have used the Ruf on a few quick races and if you get the timing right it is a freakin' rocket. I do better with the Ruf than the Fax/Copy/Scanner.
Flight Service wrote:
a spec race might be more friendly to getting more people involved.
The general thought is to run our series as a companion series to the VRR endurance series on GTPlanet. That series doesn't begin until July 31st. I've backed into a schedule, and even starting 2 weeks before their test day, doesn't get us racing until June 20th.
So, Flight... since you are picking up the PS+ subscription to race with us, I figure we'll run a short Spec-ish series until the GT3 Series gets going. I like LMP2 cars for this series. 4 makes, all really close in spec and performance. I just ran laps in each and my times were tenths apart on my fast laps.
Thoughts?
I've found the GT3 cars to be pretty close time wise but very different in character.
The one down side to a race with tire or fuel usage that requires a pit stop is that you need practice time to calculate usage and strategy. That can be time intensive.
Fuel is only if you use it or not.
Tire wear can be off, real, 2x, ..., 6x
Calculating tire wear can be time intensive, but probably not any more than I already spend on setting up the car.
I'm good with leaving it as is for the next series, but I think we need to have it for the GT3 series. Especially if we end up crossing over with the VRR series, we will want the practice and strategy.
In reply to BradLTL:
LMP4s I have not played with so that would be new and a challenge.
What day would you like to pick up a spec series
Is the start time the same?
We probably keep it the same day and time... Wednesday @ 10 ET.
There are 4 LMP2 cars: Apline, Oreca, Merak, RWD P20. 2 are open cockpit, 2 are closed. I gave them a spin today; they are different than GT cars. They have aero and it even seems to work. You can hammer down through some corners, then there are the slower corners where you have to be careful because you lost most of your downforce.
The Gt Planet VRR series is using "real" settings since they run full length races.
An LMP2 series next before our GT3 series might be fun.
So you gonna skip Wednesday's GT3 and just do LMP2 at The Glen instead?
Yea, let's do that. Dibs on the #27 Merak. It's my number and colors, and let's be honest that is the most important factor when selecting a car.
Here's a free tip about driving the LMP2 cars at the Glen: mind the curbs. There are some large one's that the cars will just bounce off.
Haven't even looked. Need to find an LMP2 car I guess....
What is the race parameters for the series? Still
Practice: 30
Qualy: 15
Race: 45
Bots at 85%
Date: Current
Weather: Fixed / Clear
Start: 12:00
Time Progression: 5x
Tire wear: 3x
Fuel usage: Real
What about assists ect.?
So the Glen is first what is the rest of the series.
Can we drive with Teady Bears? What about in a teady?
We'll keep series 1's settings. So..
- Bots at 85%
- Practice is about 45 minutes (we are generally flexible here)
- Qualy is 15 minutes.
- Race is 30 minutes
- Fuel and tire are set to real (means no pitstops unless you wreck)
- Damage is performance impacting
- Assists are set to real
- Date is August 9 at 12, no time progression (this was just the date that was defaulted, I just left it there)
- Weather is fixed / clear
- Cars are LMP2 only, but you can set them up however you would like
- There are 4 human slots, the rest is filled with bots
In reply to BradLTL:
I noticed you didn't answer the last three questions...
He works from home so he is in a teddy most of the time.
Argo1 wrote:
He works from home so he is in a teddy most of the time.
I keep a shirt handy in case I have to get on a video conference.
I played with the LMP2 on Glen this afternoon before I got back to work. I specifically banged every curb.
Boy you weren't kidding. You hit the curbs that aren't red and white and those things will shoot you across the state of NY!
This will take some work.
Watkins Glen is pretty challenging. Is there any corner that isn't blind? Add that to the curbs from hell and you have a steep learning curve. You guys took the two LMP2 coupes so I will take the open cockpit Oreca Nissan. Didn't drive the coupes so I don't know if they are faster. Don't want to know. Ran about 10 laps with the Oreca on the default setup just to learn the track. The car isn't bad but there are so many adjustments, who knows what it's potential is. My best first session lap was a 1:39.4 which is well off of posted online times.
I can see why the LMP2 cars and the GT3 cars often have problems in traffic with each other. They run similar lap times. The LMP2 cars feel less powerful but have a big advantage in the corners.
BradLTL wrote:
- We can continue to haze the GT5 crew until they pony up and buy new wheels and join us.
Thoughts?
You can come back and slum I with us. 
. Seriously our fields have been a bit thin lately and would welcome you all back.
We are running both gt300 and gt500 full tuner. We are also running a spec Camaro that is a really good car. Then we have the drivers choice and you gave already missed Airs and Spools and comps choices so we should get some normal cars with that as well.
We also have modified the handy cap system to both boost the lower finishing cars and a slight power hit to the winners that only goes away if you finish off the podium. It seems to be working well keeping the racing close as well as the points closer.
So come on back you may like it.
dean1484 wrote:
BradLTL wrote:
- We can continue to haze the GT5 crew until they pony up and buy new wheels and join us.
Thoughts?
You can come back and slum I with us. . Seriously our fields have been a bit thin lately and would welcome you all back.
We are running both gt300 and gt500 full tuner. We are also running a spec Camaro that is a really good car. Then we have the drivers choice and you gave already missed Airs and Spools and comps choices so we should get some normal cars with that as well.
We also have modified the handy cap system to both boost the lower finishing cars and a slight power hit to the winners that only goes away if you finish off the podium. It seems to be working well keeping the racing close as well as the points closer.
So come on back you may like it.
Dean,
It's hard to go back home once you've seen the big city. Project CARS is next level. Far more engaging. Far more difficult. Next level realism. AI cars are competitive. Takes some learning and practice to get up to speed.
You already have a PS4. A compatible wheel is as cheap as $79. Come join us. Next is our LMP2 series followed by the GT3 series. We are opening the doors to the GTPlanet group. The two series are designed to be a companion series to Virtual Reality Racing's multi-class WEC series beginning 7/31.
Flight is joining us. We will have some from GTPlanet. Buy a wheel and join us. We will have a full field of 18 for each event with a mix of humans and bots.
