SVreX said:In reply to P3PPY :
We’ve debated a lot, and chased several rabbits, but here is the bottom line on seatbelts:
Michigan (where you live) requires children in the coach to be seatbelted.
So, if you decide to buy a motorhome, you will need to put your kids in seatbelts.
OK,OK. So what brand/class of $7000.00 motor home seatbelts is worth buying?
I wouldn’t presume to tell others about the use of seatbelts however all occupants in our motorhome are buckled in while driving. I suppose you could debate how effective seatbelts are with just lap belts and no shoulder harness with the seating location of side by side on the couch or forward facing at the table. Certainly not optimum. However flying around in a motorhome in the event of a emergency stop or evasive maneuver the chances of getting hurt are much higher without being buckled in. There are too many sharp edges of furniture and cabinets with hard surfaces. I don’t kid myself about how well a motorhome might survive a accident but do believe you would be better off buckled in. If someone has to go to the bathroom, want something to drink or snack on I stop at the next rest area or possibly get off at the next exit. How much time do you lose considering you are probably not driving over the speed limit anyway.
yupididit said:Lol @ you all saying wife making you "sandwiches" while you drive. Let her drive while you make sandwiches.
I usually got sandwich duty but thanks to cruise control my parents got good at switching drivers without having to stop.
Most injuries I’ve seen from people standing/walking around in a vehicle happen without a collision taking place. It’s usually an unexpected maneuver or emergency stop. At least in buses there are no cabinets and sharp corners to hit but we see quite a few arm and head injuries anyway. As kids we often used my uncle’s motorhome and did walk around in it but be aware that it’s easier to get hurt than if you aren’t moving.
I was very surprised to see the amount of responses here. Thanks for ALL the good information, especially about what I'll find at that price point and reliability. To start off with, my wife is death on the idea of getting what she assumes to be a huge project at this point in our lives. I'm... an optimist. But it sounds like I'm wrong, so there's that.
Regarding the seatbelts, years ago my wife and I decided it was not worth it to take the kids out of their seatbelts for pretty much any reason while we were under way, figuring that we couldn't live with ourselves in the unlikely event that something happened. I assumed there was a reason busses and coaches didn't have seatbelt requirements though so figured it would be okay to padded-wall off/net off a play area for them. But if Michigan doesn't even allow it in the first place then this is all kind of moot. Especially since the older they get, as they get a functioning prefrontal cortex, the less I'll feel like I'm torturing them (or us!) tying them down to a seat for a few hours at a time.
Thanks again, all
Hold my beer....
This gif.... but replace penis enlarger pumps with RVs.
All tolled, I have probably spent nearly 1/3 of my life in an RV of some sort including several years as a full-timer. This sort of thing is my bag, baby.
You first need to determine what type of camping you'll be doing. For instance if you're road tripping, a motorhome is nice. As has been pointed out, no, you can't really go in the back and cook dinner on the road, but its easy enough to stop at a rest area and make a meal. If you plan on going somewhere and setting up camp for the weekend and sight-seeing, a towable RV is often prefered. Park the trailer and you have a vehicle to go do things. With a motorhome, you have to completely break camp to move it which often includes water, electric, and sewer.
DOT laws (although no one really checks) don't allow for the NPG tank valve to be open on the road, but everyone does it. Most modern RVs have fridges that will work on 120v, 12v, or propane, so there is no need to have the tank open these days.
In your search, you'll find many types.
Towable
Motorhome
Other
On the topic of slide rooms: Ask if you really need it. Depending on the brand and vintage you end up buying, slide rooms can be frustratingly unreliable. Most of them are motorized with a crank backup, but that didn't help me when I was trying to get to a new job in another town and the gearbox more or less exploded. I couldn't go anywhere because my slide room was stuck in the out position. You'll also find that depending on how the body of the RV is flexed, there could be gaps in the seals that allow bugs, rodents, and water in.
If you select an RV with a slide room, also be very aware of the layout. My friends have an absolutely beautiful 5er with two slides in the back (one on each side) and a kitchen with an island. It is simply gorgeous, but when the slide room is in, the wall butts up to the fridge and doesn't allow the door to open. Some models block all access to important things like kitchens and bathrooms when the slides are in.
When selecting one, also look at the construction. Most of the less expensive versions have a corrugated aluminum siding. It is perfectly fine, but it doesn't take much for a branch or road debris to punch a hole in it. It also means that all the windows, doors, and other things have to seal on an uneven surface and there is often a little higher chance of water infiltration. The next step up is flat fiberglass. The best ones often have flat sheet aluminum sides. Do the research on wall construction as well. Many newer ones use aluminum studs. Cheaper and older ones use wood studs. If they start to leak, you could discover that a wood-stud wall has rotted and become full of mold before you can do anything about it. My current RV is flat-sheet aluminum with aluminum studs. It developed a leak and I started noticing a soft rotted spot in the interior paneling. The fix was super easy - just replace that spot of paneling. I knew the studs didn't rot. Mom and dad have an older trailer with wood studs. Sure enough it rotted and now the whole trailer sags behind the rear axle because it lost the integrity of the triangulation of a rigid wall.
You'll find several roof types. The most common is a wood roof with rubber sheeting. It is pretty reliable and easy to repair, but the rubber gets chalky from UV. This means two things: 1) you'll constantly be chasing down what RVers call "black streaks" which is the oxidized rubber dripping down the sides. Not the end of the world, but not especially easy to clean. 2) once a year they recommend cleaning the rubber with a special cleaner and post-cleaning treatment to maximize lifespan. You'll also find aluminum roofs. Cheap aluminum roofs are thin aluminum that is textured or corrugated. Some of these have a lot of seams and are pretty prone to leaks, and not too hard for a falling branch to punch through it. The best roofs are one-piece aluminum sheet. My current trailer is a two-piece aluminum flat sheet with a big strip of butyl tape down the seam in the middle. It has been mostly bulletproof, but it did have one leak around where the TV antenna sticks through.
Another good indicator of quality in an RV is the cabinetry. Here is the bottom line when it comes to RV marketing: They want to give you the maximum space, size, and options, while keeping it as light as possible so you can tow it with the least possible vehicle. They also realize that 95% of RVers use an RV three weekends a year; Memorial Day, 4th of July, and Labor day. This means they often use the absolute cheapest and lightest materials they can. Cabinets are often luan with a woodgrain laminate and assembled by little 1x1" chunks of pine in the corners. If you find an RV with quality cabinetry, you've probably found a good RV.
RV quality has been on the rise in the last 5 years. There were some really dark years there in from around 1999 to 2006. The economy was such that RVing wasn't a huge draw and so many RV companies went close to belly up and sold to an investment company who kept them afloat by making RVs from cardboard and prayers. My current TT is a 1992 Holiday Rambler. It is nothing short of amazing. The cabinets are made from real oak doors and oak plywood bodies. The plumbing fixtures are top notch. I am swapping it out at my lake spot for another trailer; mostly because the Rambler has been beaten hard for 25 years and there is a compromise somewhere that lets mice in. I'm not just going to retire it, though. I'll bring it home and refurb it. A good quality RV is ultimately rebuildable and worthy of it much like a classic car. Many early 2000s RVs were like a Chevy Cavalier. They fall apart fast and there is no real value in restoring it. Sometime in the late 90s, Holiday Rambler was bought by Monaco and they are but a shadow of their former glory. For that reason, I wouldn't hesitate to get a slightly older RV in good shape to get your feet wet. Another example... I had a 91 Fleetwood Wilderness that was a juggernaut. I traded it for a 2000 Fleetwood Wilderness that was a flaming pile of dung.
For that reason, I haven't really kept up on the latest brands and quality. I just find a good used one from the mid 90s and fix whatever it needs.
I've got a class C motorhome and it's awesome. Girls pee a lot. Even if you stop everyrtime they get up to pee, which we don't, it's still a big time saver. As opposed to only stopping at gas stations and whatnot. Even if you're not cooking all your own meals it just a really nice place to be while driving. The long wheelbase and slow steering makes them good highway cruisers. The big sway bars make them handle corners better than the dishes in the cabinets.
Petrolburner said:The big sway bars make them handle corners better than the dishes in the cabinets.
This is so true. At least in a motorhome you know when it happens. My first trip with the new TT I stopped to find the latch on the fridge hadn't held and my floor had deviled eggs that were smashed into the carpet by the pan of jello that followed behind it. That thing smelled like hard boiled eggs for 6 months.
Petrolburner said:I've got a class C motorhome and it's awesome. Girls pee a lot. Even if you stop everyrtime they get up to pee, which we don't, it's still a big time saver. As opposed to only stopping at gas stations and whatnot. Even if you're not cooking all your own meals it just a really nice place to be while driving. The long wheelbase and slow steering makes them good highway cruisers.
Much truth. They are pretty fun to cruise down the highway.
Nearly all of my RVing is destination stuff. I like to go somewhere and take a weekend or week or month exploring the area. For that reason I have a towable RV. I go to the campground, back in the trailer, hook up the utilities, and I have a free vehicle to do my thing. When we full-timed I would put the motorcycle in the bed of the truck. The wife could drive the truck and I could drive the bike.
Another option I failed to mention is a motorhome with a Toad. a "Toad" is a vehicle towed behind a motorhome. That is another way of having a vehicle with you so you don't have to break camp to go see sights. The drawback is that you have two registered, insured, inspected vehicles. I want my RVs to be on call when I need them, not requiring additional upkeep when it's not in use.
There are advantages to each type of RV. I tend to lobby for TTs the hardest, but I don't mind having a tow rig capable of moving it.
I am also a boater.... The TT does pose a problem if I'm going somewhere to camp with boating involved.
In reply to Curtis :
One variant not mentioned is the Super-C. Basically a Class C based on a truck chassis, either a 450-series pick-up or even a medium duty truck. Pros: designed to tow a lot of weight - say you want to bring a 3-car stacker with you. Often built to order so you can customize to your hearts content. Cons: Really expensive (typically pushing $200K or more new).
If your in the Philly area this weekend (Feb 28 thru Mar 3) there's an RV show in the Oaks Convention center. Allows you to browse through a bunch of RVs with minimal effort ($11 cash entry). I'm still fairly set on building my own, but I like to go anyway to look for ideas and just maybe find something that suites my rather specific needs that is already built.
Ian F said:In reply to Curtis :
If your in the Philly area this weekend (Feb 28 thru Mar 3) there's an RV show in the Oaks Convention center. Allows you to browse through a bunch of RVs with minimal effort ($11 cash entry). I'm still fairly set on building my own, but I like to go anyway to look for ideas and just maybe find something that suites my rather specific needs that is already built.
The last few RV shows I attended were 99.5% trailers, very few motor coaches showed up and even then, they were Sprinter-chassis limos. Get ready to be impressed by 5th wheels though!
In reply to pinchvalve :
I went to this one last year - there were plenty of motorhomes in addition to trailers of various shapes and sizes.
I love RV shows!
trailers are a way cheaper way to do this, but if you don't have a truck, that can be a pain.
I did the Class C adventure with the family a couple years ago We bought a 31' Coachmen Freelander which was an E-450 van chassis based rig with the V10. (averaged less than 7.5mpg).
It allowed us to take a 4-week adventure with our two kids and dog out west, starting from Michigan, going through the U.P., spend time in Duluth, Mt. Rushmore, camped on the Missouri River in South Dakota, Yellowstone, Dinosaur Nat'l Monument, and even made it down to the Grand Canyon. We took 2 lane back roads for 90% of the trip.
It was a lot of fun, the instant ready nature made it easy to travel. Yes kids should be belted, but the ability to sit in the back and watch movies on the flat screen TV, along with playing Playstation passed a lot of time. Quick pull over for pee brakes in the middle of nowhere, and the fact our dog had room to roam and come along were big plusses. It also meant driving and crashing at night in more than a few Walmart parking lots before waking up and heading out again. My wife really wanted to have our own bed, and the ability to not have to use a public restroom / public showers so that pushed us in the bigger Class C direction. It allowed us enough space to get far enough away from each other and the kids when needed.
After owning it a year, and a missed water leak on the rear wall before it being parked for winter, and water intrusion caused several thousands of dollars in damages. We ended up selling it and losing our ass on it. We enjoyed the adventures we had, but are now looking at renting a trailer for some random long Michigan weekends this year instead.
Registration was expensive (way pricier tabs than a travel trailer). It was pretty solid mechanically but I did have to put front end bushings on it, along with new "house" batteries.
Long story short, I think you're going to be battling a lot of problems in the $7K price range. If you've never done it before, I would strongly suggest renting first. Sites like rvshare.com offer plenty of options. Especially if you're just looking to do long weekends (vs a multi-week long trip).
I did not read the whole thread but I am going to suggest renting a couple different options on your wish list. Then decide what is right for you. Or if its a one or twice a year thing just rent for ever.
After cost, depreciation, storage, upkeep blah, renting is not that bad. Or do like my friend did, buy what you want then register it in a rental place and let other people pay for it.
xflowgolf said:trailers are a way cheaper way to do this, but if you don't have a truck, that can be a pain.
Very true. Trailers depreciate quickly so it's pretty easy to get one not-very-used for cheap.
You don't need a truck. Most smaller TTs can pretty easily go behind smaller vehicles. My cousin frequently tows her 18' TT with a Dodge caravan. Tow capacities for small SUVs are getting pretty big. Mom's Trailblazer was rated for something stupid like 7000, but with a billboard TT, I wouldn't go more than about 24-26' which will very likely be well under 7000 lbs.
I fully understand why people want a motorhome, but for me it is an absolute non-starter. I camp for long periods of time, and even if its just a weekend trip, I will want to go out for a meal or a beer and explore the area. Motorhomes make that remarkably difficult. Everyone always said that I should do a motorhome because I need to tow the boat to the lake which I can't do with a TT on the back. I was so opposed to that idea that I bought a second TT to leave at the lake. Paying for storage all year is still cheaper than the maintenance, registration, insurance, and repairs to a motorhome.
One other thing I will say.... never use the trailer's dry weight to estimate anything. Use the GVW. It doesn't take a lot of meatloaf, trousers, and milk cartons to suddenly find your trailer weighs at or near GVW.
Curtis said:One other thing I will say.... never use the trailer's dry weight to estimate anything. Use the GVW. It doesn't take a lot of meatloaf, trousers, and milk cartons to suddenly find your trailer weighs at or near GVW.
Very true. Also remember that your vehicle's tow rating assumes that it's pretty much empty. Once you load it with family, pets, and all their assorted stuff, the capacity drops by the amount of weight you've added. The real number you want is Gross Combined Weight Rating, or GCWR, which can usually be found in the towing literature or owners manual for your tow vehicle. You want the total weight of the truck, trailer, and all the gear to be under this number. You can check it at a certified scale, which shouldn't be too difficult to find in your area.
I'm another one who went the travel trailer route. We always have a truck of some description around, and we like to go explore once we've found a place to camp. The other thing with motorhomes is that they have everything that can go wrong with a trailer (roof leaks, electrical issues, appliances, tires, etc) AND everything that can go wrong with a large truck.
Here's me with our Outback in the Rockies a couple of years ago:
Every RV accident I've seen was a travel trailer, looks like it was a tail wagging the dog tank slapper. Make sure you have a heavy enough tow vehicle and an Equalizer hitch if you go bumper pull
I have a bit to say on this but much has been covered. I would think GRM, of all places, has the type of people who can buy cheap rv’s. We paid $1700 for our 1990 class A- put about $500 in it initially and then drove it from west palm beach, to bass Harbour Maine and out to montauk. We spent 5 weeks in it and it was one of the best months of my life. Happy to share more if needed.
Should also note that we towed our Odyssey with it as well, HA! It was an adventure to say the least.
I just snagged a late 90s 5er for free from Mom and Dad 32' and two slides and hardly ever used.
Nice looking Outback, Tom. I've heard awesome things about them.
P3PPY... you may have discussed this earlier, but what might you have in the way of a tow rig? Or would you consider buying a tow mule as well?
The only reason I ask is that my 92 Holiday Rambler TT could be yours for not much money. It's a 32 footer and I think the GVW is around 9000. As I mentioned above, it does let mice in, but I'm going to fix that. It has always been just one or two and it never smells like mouse, I'm just super anal and don't really want Hanta virus. No leaks, fabulous construction, perfectly usable and everything works.
Anyway... if you're interested in a travel trailer and have the ability to tow a 32-footer, (and if you don't live zillions of miles from PA) you could take it for a weekend and see what you think. If you like it we'll talk money. If you don't, we won't and you just got a free travel trailer rental.
It's currently in Ontario, but I gotta go get it anyway.
grover said:I have a bit to say on this but much has been covered. I would think GRM, of all places, has the type of people who can buy cheap rv’s. We paid $1700 for our 1990 class A- put about $500 in it initially and then drove it from west palm beach, to bass Harbour Maine and out to montauk. We spent 5 weeks in it and it was one of the best months of my life. Happy to share more if needed.
Should also note that we towed our Odyssey with it as well, HA! It was an adventure to say the least.
That’s exactly what I did with my Cortez. In case you didn’t know what a Cortez is it’s a GMC like motor home powered by the front wheel drive olds 455 except it’s lower and shorter.
I bought a non running one for $500 and got it running in his back yard, brought it home, cleaned it up and did the neglected maintenance. Used it for a while and sold it at a nice profit.
The point being there are plenty of old motorhomes out there that are “barn Finds” needing repairs to get running and work. They can be had for far under the OP’s $7000.
Dont worry, many you will look at won’t be worth your time even if free.
My 2c, lots has been covered, but I went the cheap route on a Class C, so ill give my input.
RV #1 was a TT, 23' ish IIRC, worked great, just not what we needed. Set up sucked for us (we rarely stay in CG's, lots of winter camping etc) Had some water issues, and it was unloaded. (oh dont get a TT stuck, thats a huge PITA)
RV#2 was the cheap 4x4 Winie. 5k (would have been less had it not been 4x4 I think). It had water damage and some delamination. I knew that buying it. My solution was to remove the corner trim and peel the exterior skin back, and pour a half gallon of epoxy in and clamp the skin back on. Not pretty but it worked. Low miles on the drivetrain, and was pretty problem free there. Trans cable/shifter came out of adjustment, and it ate front wheel bearings. It was a V10, I ignored the plugs as I didn't want to have to deal with them, never spit them out. "systems" were always the problems, batteries were dead, water pump crapped out, generator wouldn't start etc. I removed the AC as it was leaking, but it just needed a seal. Fiberglass one piece roof, no issues there except penetrations. I did eternabond EVERY corner and seam on that thing, it wasn't pretty but water resistant.
It was great for lack of setup, pull in and crawl in bed. That's what sold us on the class C. But we were never all that comfortable with the kid sitting at the dinette. I had added a seatbelt, but the table seemed like a bad idea. It would go flying in a crash as it was just screwed to the inner skin (1/8" luan).... So new rig is crew cab for proper seats. We do get up to grab a snack or use the bathroom, but no playing or sleeping in the back. I just dont like it.
RV#3 The ski bum truck. I <3 it. But it just cost me 3k to fix the damn flex joints in the exhaust. It will have all the same issues as a class C, and a diesel truck :D
I think the renting idea is good, but that's actually why we bought our first cheap one, after seeing rental prices!
frenchyd said:grover said:I have a bit to say on this but much has been covered. I would think GRM, of all places, has the type of people who can buy cheap rv’s. We paid $1700 for our 1990 class A- put about $500 in it initially and then drove it from west palm beach, to bass Harbour Maine and out to montauk. We spent 5 weeks in it and it was one of the best months of my life. Happy to share more if needed.
Should also note that we towed our Odyssey with it as well, HA! It was an adventure to say the least.
That’s exactly what I did with my Cortez. In case you didn’t know what a Cortez is it’s a GMC like motor home powered by the front wheel drive olds 455 except it’s lower and shorter.
I bought a non running one for $500 and got it running in his back yard, brought it home, cleaned it up and did the neglected maintenance. Used it for a while and sold it at a nice profit.
The point being there are plenty of old motorhomes out there that are “barn Finds” needing repairs to get running and work. They can be had for far under the OP’s $7000.
Dont worry, many you will look at won’t be worth your time even if free.
A little off topic, but did you ever see the Cortez that got modified with a twin turbo Caddy 500? Front wheel burnouts in a motorhome.
Oh, and on the topic of safety, if you want the best you're going to get, use an ambulance and build it yourself. They have rollover requirements.
Three pages and this hasn't been brought up, I think this falls on the opposite side of safety but possibly in the $7000 range.
Adam
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