Luxury Trap? Volvo S40 and Saab 9-3

Similar to the ever popular what car thread I have been looking for a new-er car for the girlfriend. The requirements are minimal: less than ten years old, manual transmission, four doors, and under $8k.

I have been turning up fusions, milans, mazda6s, and legacys that would all fit the bill but I also saw some Volvo S40's Saab 9-3's in the price range that are overall nicer vehicles for the same money and age. Am I falling into a trap looking at these entry level luxury cars nearing 100k miles? I know the chassis are based on lesser cars; Mazda3 and Malibu but beyond that I don't know much about their reliability. Looking for something that won't cause thousands of dollars in repairs that I can't handle in my own garage.

Stay away or keep searching?

Volvo S40/V50 2004+

Saab 9-3 2003+

The Volvo is on my radar as well, but stick shift cars are few and far between, especially in the wagons.

One thing that puts me off is that Mrs. BDT's '07 Volvo is so handcuffed to the VADIS system. My trusted indy Volvo shop is balking at the subscription cost and he says that even relatively minor repairs can't be completed without hooking it up to recognize the new part.

The Saab with the turbo V6 and the manual. That's what I would pick

I want a Saab 9-3. They seem fairly reliable from what I have seen.

this last couple of weeks i've been selling new ignition cassettes to what's left of the local SAAB dealership for over $700 a pop. they can't get them.

belteshazzar wrote: this last couple of weeks i've been selling new ignition cassettes to what's left of the local SAAB dealership for over $700 a pop. they can't get them.

Isn't that only the pre-'03 Saab 9-3s though?

they keep ordering them just by the part number, so i couldn't say. my computer says they fit 9-3's and 9-5's from '99-'09. not sure which 4 cylinder that is.

i'm just trying to make the point, getting a SAAB right now might represent a volatile cost-vs-benefit ratio.

Nitroracer wrote: I have been turning up fusions, milans, mazda6s, and legacys that would all fit the bill

You were on the right track. Get back on track.

I work for an Indy European shop and we have a devil of a time getting any Saab specific parts. We can't find them and when we can its $$$. I would avoid any SAAB at this point.

apex381 wrote: I work for an Indy European shop and we have a devil of a time getting any Saab specific parts. We can't find them and when we can its $$$. I would avoid any SAAB at this point.

Don't say that around here. I've been dismissed as a troll when I talk about 6 week wait times for dealer specific parts.

I am interested in hearing Saab horror stories. The cars have gotten my attention since they are dropping in value quickly but I am wonder what "the rest of the story" is.

I know with the ex-wifes 9-5 only issue it ever gave me over 25k (had something like 94k when she left) was a BPV went bad and as long as you keep up with the plugs and the gap spacing your ign. cassette will last for a bit of time (from what i understand they don't take to well to extreme heat over time)

As a guy who just sold his Saab...the stories are overblown. The '04-up 9-3 has a turbo Ecotec anyways. I would avoid the V6. DI cassettes were only used in 9-3's until 2003, 9-5's had them until 2009. If you can't find non-trim parts for a reasonable price, you apparently don't know what the internet is. There is a 6-week back order for brand new 9-5 parts since the new platform only rolled out last year - anything older is no big deal whatsoever.

Look for a 9-3 Vector or Aero with the 6-speed and turbo four. They are basically a Cobalt SS turbo with a much nicer interior, four doors, and better styling (IMO). I'd be happy to answer any Saab-specific questions you have. Just traded mine for an Alfa, though.

The hysteria is NOT overblown. I'm in the process of junking a guy's 2011 9-5 that hit a deer. Among the parts it needs are headlight, hood, both bumpers, fender, left rear door, grille and associated bits and bobs ($90 for a plastic bumper bracket? Really???).

The ONLY parts we can get are the hood and the door. There are no headlights. Zero. No used, no new, no aftermarket.

If you're buying Saabs, you'd better be buying them in pairs. One to drive, one to keep the other running.

People keep Yugos, Hudsons, etc running. I don't think y'all have heard of the internet.

Exception I wouldn't buy '11 9-5.

In reply to ddavidv: Agreed, I think owning a 2011 9-5 is a baddddd idea.
This is the completely redesigned version that was only sold for about 1 year before the folding of the company. They were never a big seller and their short lifespan in general makes for what i would think to be a severe limit on model specific parts (and since it was a complete redesign, just about everything on it is model specific.)

What is holding my interest is the '99 to '05 Saab 9-5's (specifically wagon.)

This model was made pretty much the same from '99 till '09 but in '06 it got a freshened grill and dashboard.

My thoughts on a vehicle like a '02 (or 10 year old car) is that most parts needed will be aftermarket/reproduction/cored items and even if you need body panels they will mostly be sourced from junkyard or reproduction panels.
What am I missing?
What Saab specific is still needed on these older cars?

DI Cassettes seem to be a part where "factory" is greatly preferred. Is that true or overblown?

93EXCivic wrote: People keep Yugos, Hudsons, etc running. I don't think y'all have heard of the internet. Exception I wouldn't buy '11 9-5.

There's a far cry from a Hudson and a modern vehicle. You can recreate most Hudson parts using a home metal shop. Not so with a modern vehicle. If reproduction parts aren't available, you're screwed.

dculberson wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: People keep Yugos, Hudsons, etc running. I don't think y'all have heard of the internet. Exception I wouldn't buy '11 9-5.

There's a far cry from a Hudson and a modern vehicle. You can recreate most Hudson parts using a home metal shop. Not so with a modern vehicle. If reproduction parts aren't available, you're screwed.

My point is the aftermarket will step up to offer parts for these cars.

jrw1621 wrote: I am interested in hearing Saab horror stories. The cars have gotten my attention since they are dropping in value quickly but I am wonder what "the rest of the story" is.

I have owned an NG and a Classic 900.. I would not go back to the NG or any newer saabs

93EXCivic wrote: My point is the aftermarket will step up to offer parts for these cars.

Which will be great, when that happens. But until it does, it's not a good idea to depend on one. (Speaking solely of the newer saabs that don't have aftermarket parts available yet.)

dculberson wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: My point is the aftermarket will step up to offer parts for these cars.

Which will be great, when that happens. But until it does, it's not a good idea to depend on one. (Speaking solely of the newer saabs that don't have aftermarket parts available yet.)

I would. I am thinking of a newer 9-3 or 94-97 Jaguar XJ6 or old slant six Dart as a replacement for the Civic one day.

jrw1621 wrote: In reply to ddavidv: Agreed, I think owning a 2011 9-5 is a baddddd idea. This is the completely redesigned version that was only sold for about 1 year before the folding of the company. They were never a big seller and their short lifespan in general makes for what i would think to be a severe limit on model specific parts (and since it was a complete redesign, just about everything on it is model specific.) What is holding my interest is the '99 to '05 Saab 9-5's (specifically wagon.) This model was made pretty much the same from '99 till '09 but in '06 it got a freshened grill and dashboard. My thoughts on a vehicle like a '02 (or 10 year old car) is that most parts needed will be aftermarket/reproduction/cored items and even if you need body panels they will mostly be sourced from junkyard or reproduction panels. What am I missing? What Saab specific is still needed on these older cars? DI Cassettes seem to be a part where "factory" is greatly preferred. Is that true or overblown?

There is a lot of truth in that post. As far as the DI cassettes, like was said earlier, keep the plugs gapped within spec and you should be good.

Also, it seems like you can get a new DIC from CarQuest for a couple of hundred dollars.

I had a fender bender with a fairly new saab. Damage to my car was written up as $1800. Damage to the other car (rouhly equal) was written up as $14,000+ after parts prices and wait times meaning a several month rental for the other driver if insurance covered it. That car had minor relatively minor damage and didnt get fixed.

ddavidv wrote: The hysteria is NOT overblown. I'm in the process of junking a guy's 2011 9-5 that hit a deer.

David, did you even read my post? The 2011 9-5 is impossible to find parts for, yes - it was only made/sold for one year before Saab went kaput.

Anything else is really, really easy to find parts for. (Trim parts for '07-up facelift 9-5's are a bit thin on the ground, but not impossible, and the mechanical stuff is easy.)

I really liked my '99 9-5, it was fast, comfortable, and returned 32MPG. There is a surprising aftermarket out there too from companies like Taliaferro, Abbott, Hirsch and BSR. I never needed a single part I couldn't order from eeuroparts.com, but hey, what do I know, I've only had three Saabs so how could I be an authority?