Where would you find a gas turbine?

Let's say, completely hypothetically, that I wanted a small gas turbine engine for purposes that aren't in any way nefarious at all. Let's even set some hypothetical criteria that I might want: maybe car-engine sized (completely coincidentally mind you), 100-200 kW, with an output shaft rather than purely thrust-driven, and possibly even GRM priced. Assuming such a beast is not a white elephant, where could one find it?

I'm assuming an engine that was retired from, say, a small helicopter due to age, would be perfectly usable in a vehicle never intended to leave the ground, and hopefully also dirt-cheap. Right?

Jay wrote: I'm assuming an engine that was retired from, say, a small helicopter due to age, would be perfectly usable in a vehicle never intended to leave the ground, and hopefully also dirt-cheap. Right?

Like in a Golf Cart or something?

Old Bell helicopters. start looking there, google maybe?

When I went to a&p school, they had them just sitting around. No idea what happened to them when the school was closed...

Might want to check for APUs also. Aircraft or Helicopter Auxilary Power Unit. We use one on CH-47 Chinooks that are about the same size as the powerplant in the Bell JetRanger. Other aircraft/helicopters use something similiar as APUs. Doubt they would be cheap though, at least one that runs.

Jay wrote: Let's say, completely hypothetically, that I wanted a small gas turbine engine for purposes that aren't in any way nefarious at all. Let's even set some hypothetical criteria that I might want: maybe car-engine sized (completely coincidentally mind you), 100-200 kW, with an output shaft rather than purely thrust-driven, and possibly even GRM priced. Assuming such a beast is not a white elephant, where could one find it?

In Europe? No idea, but I like your thinking.

Jay wrote: I'm assuming an engine that was retired from, say, a small helicopter due to age, would be perfectly usable in a vehicle never intended to leave the ground, and hopefully also dirt-cheap. Right?

Well, the vehicle is unlikely to make a big hole in the ground if the turbine breaks down. Unless something lets go in a spectacular fashion...

From memory, one problem with the Chrysler turbine cars was exhaust heat. Supposedly it thoroughly discouraged tail gating but you might want to think about that if the hypothetical vehicle would hypothetically be driven on public roads.

It just needs a smokestack...

That would look interesting, and also help with downforce. I think I see the Locost from hell coming our way.

http://www.govdeals.com/eas/itmDisplay.cfm?itemID=1&acctID=2706

I know absolutely nothing about airplane engines, but here's one for sale. It may or may not be a turbine. It would be cool stuffed into the rear of a Rampside pickup, though...

I don't think the Chryslers had a problem with exhaust heat. You could add an afterburner, though, for tailgaters. I have a book on automotive uses of gas turbine engines at home, up to the 70's or so. It's pretty interesting. Like the 4 wheel drive gas turbine Lotus Indy car. The Chrysler is in there, along with a bunch of others made right here in the U.S.A. when we did that innovation thing. Total maintenance on them was like, change the oil at 100K miles. Gas mileage wasn't that great on them, and acceleration wasn't too good either. Plenty of power but it came on slower than with a internal combustion engine.

In reply to Kramer:

That's definitely a turbine engine. Pratt & Whitney PT6A-27. It's a little more than 5 feet long and 19" in diameter. Produces between 500 and 2200 shaft horsepower. I assume that OP understands that jet power is non-linear and does not vary RPM quickly. But it would be an awesome generator for the most hellacious battery-powered electric hybrid ever :)

More stats on the engine here: http://www.pwc.ca/en/engines/pt6a-27

military surplus auction?

You'd never win Low E.T. in drag race portion of the Challenge, but you'd have the highest trap speed.

Heh, a hybrid was actually what I'm thinking about. I'm still stuck on my really bad idea, but after reading Bryce's build I started thinking that making the drive electric would be a lot more practical. I'd keep the individual motors driving each rear wheel, but have them powered by a DC generator, run off a single engine.

That got me onto this track. Generators are happiest running at a constant load & fixed RPM. Gas turbine engines are also happiest running at a constant load & fixed RPM. Piston engines sound like ass when run constantly at peak revs (think snowmobile), gas turbine engines sound like the future. The list goes on.

Plus seeing Top Gear's pathetic attempt at a generator-type hybrid last week makes me think I could do better. Hell I know I could do better.

Sounds like an APU is just what you need. At that point, you couls also fairly easily run four motors, and FWD, RWD, or AWD would be a simple rocker switch away. Gear selection? Again basically a rocker for R-N-D. I've heard rumors that the drive mechanism for the M1A1 Abrams replacement is likely to be along similar lines. Only difference being a Deisel turbine, rather than gas. I don't remember on the Chrysler, but watching an interview with Jay Leno about his Jet Bike, he once melted the front bumper of a tail-gater, while at a stop light.

We're testing about 40 turbine hybrid buses right now. So far aside from a few programing glitches the biggest complaint is that they are too quiet.

I think M1A1's can use jet fuel, gasoline, or diesel.

I don't know squat about planes other than there is never enough legroom and everyones shoes are safe, but are APU's coupled to a generator through a reduction gearset? I would guess they are AC generators not DC....sliprings are a maintenance pain - commutators are better. Why would you want DC motors for propualion over AC?

link

Here is a link to a car with a microturbine engine. Looks like that company makes them as small as 30kw.

E-bay?

LM2500....

They have four of them, I'm sure they wouldn't miss one...

I knew that if I came into this thread, I'd see a picture of a ship.

To really go basic, you could build your own out of an old turbo. http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

Great minds think alike. I thought of something similiar but not using a turbine. And to think I am an A&P and have extensive turbine experience. I didn't consider turbine because of cost. Instead I thought about a small water cooled engine (diesel or gas) about the size in a small tractor/lawn tractor to power a generator to power electric motors for drive. The plus side of this is simplicity and add-ons. Like the cooling system to feed a heater just like what's currently used in cars. Could also use the engine to power power steering pumps and AC compressors just like currently used on cars. The vacuum system can even be used for power brakes. I thought this through. Reusing the accessory components would help keep cost down, maximize effeciency and let us have the creature comforts we are used too. You could measure fuel consumption by amount used per hour instead of miles per gallon. I even talked with some engineers (electrical) I work with. A couple of them sat down, did some quick math and stated a generator big enough to power a car would be to big to fit in a car. I somehow don't fully believe them with technology being what it is. I thought a generator powered vehicle would be a decent idea as a stop-gap measure until battery technology improves enough to be of use to the masses.

To add an answer to? asked. AC generator through a rectifier converting to DC for motor.

Since you clearly aren't building this for an automotive application, I feel safe passing along this interesting bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=xSRx0M2XTx4

There was one for like 600 bucks on ebay (my memory might be a bit fuzzy on that one, maybe 6k)... SO TEMPTING, look for Jet fuel starter, they are used to start the turbines in most aircraft... sites like govdeals will have stuff like that once in a blue moon.

Didn't Ferdinand Porsche design a 4wd electric vehicle in the 30's with one motor per wheel? Imagine all the interesting things you could do with handling and braking with that setup. The mind reels. Well, mine does. It reels a lot.

Don't use hydraulic vacuum assisted brakes even if you can get vacuum from your little generator. Use regenerative braking and get your energy back.

The Chevy Volt is basically an electric car with on-board recharging, no? So obviously it can be done. The key is to have batteries, not just a generator and motors. Short of a top speed run, you're not going to need continuous maximum power, so the batteries provide "overboost" potential.

dont regenerative brakes have a bunch of lag?