Making six figures without going to college

MrJoshua wrote: Just a heads up for the hourly rate needed: 40hrs a week and 50 weeks a year would take $50 an hour to make $100k.

$48.07 an hour for 52 weeks, figuring in 2 weeks of vacation.

If before taxes/expenses count, be a farmer.......

poopshovel wrote:

In my opinion, the key ingredients to success are smarts enough to recognize an opportunity when it comes your way and enough drive to capitalize on it.

This. Big time. And capitalizing on these opportunities often requires a little capital. So while your friends are partying at the bar every weekend and buying $20,000 cars, you'd be wise to stack any tiny bit of cash you can...and turn those little stacks into larger ones whenever the opportunity presents itself. Don't listen to the people who tell you it can't be done. I'm not rolling in the dough or anything, but I SACRIFICED the first 15 or so years of my working life; saving money. No vacations. No cars over $2k. Going out to dinner a maximum of twice a year or so, so that I can do those things now. It's worth it. My room-mates in Gainesville bagged on me constantly for eating beans and rice and never going out to the bars with them. Both accumulated over $100k in debt. 15 years later, one (a "wildlife ecology" major) works as a pastry chef. The other (nursing degree or something?) is a full-time stay at home mom...not that there's anything wrong with that. Wife's best friend spent 4 years and god knows how much in student loans at Massage Therapy school in Colorado. Personally, I think she just wanted to move to Colorado, and the school was an excuse. She works as a paper-pusher at a doctor's office for barely more than minimum wage during the day, and delivers pizzas for Dominoes at night. Mom and Dad pay her car payment on her 2000-something Nissan Murano (which she constantly complains about) and she lives in her parents old house rent-free. She is still drowning in debt...and going back to school for accounting, which may or may not be a good thing.

I'm gonna throw this out there. What if you were hit by a truck at year 14.999?

Personally, I don't think you should have to sacrifice life completely to get ahead. Sure you don't need brand new cars and shots of Woodford Reserve every night...but enjoy life!

Do what makes you happy. If that means eating rice and beans and living in the slums then so be it. Personally, I'll take my 3-5 trips a years, boats, good wine, ribeyes, and toys.

mtn wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Just a heads up for the hourly rate needed: 40hrs a week and 50 weeks a year would take $50 an hour to make $100k.

$48.07 an hour for 52 weeks, figuring in 2 weeks of vacation.

you mean there are people out there who only have to work 40 hours a week?
lol.
When things were going well in the mechanic biz for me I was averaging about $750 a week, which comes out to 40k. Thats a first year on the job income though. add $10-20k more to that after 5 years or so if you bust your ass.
Most master techs are making close to or over six figures. I know that the foreman at nissan was just over that. He's been in the business for 23 years, at the same shop for 20 Though.
On the performance side, techs at the euro shop I was at were making 32 an hour or more flat rate. turn just 50 hours a week and thats $80k after just a few years in the industry (and being very good at your job)

You just have to find the right shop in the right area and stay there and become perfect. And work alot.

I know that you can get close in my company (Think Yellow Tractors) without a degree. Section managers are not required a 4 year degree, and they start in the upper 60's and reach into the 90's after a couple years.

Datsun1500 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: Just a heads up for the hourly rate needed: 40hrs a week and 50 weeks a year would take $50 an hour to make $100k.

Very few people that make $100K work 40 hours a week, especially working for someone else. Try at least 60.

It was just quick math so all these hourly rates quoted could be put in context.

In reply to Cole_Trickle:

Oh, so you work for AGCO now? [/troll]

JThw8 wrote: On the flip side I live and work in NJ, pay scales are higher here because the cost of living is stupid. I'd make less doing what I do but probably live better in many other parts of the country.

This. I live in central Missouri. I make 60k a year and have a metric E36 M3load of student debt. I can still live relatively well because the cost of living here is very low compared to a city of this size on either coast. If I were making the same income and same debt payments in any city on the coast, I would be struggling badly and home ownership would be a pipe dream.

I have a friend who was hired as a petroleum engineer straight out of college (bachelor's) for $70k and sent to Fort Smith, Arkansas (which is even cheaper than here). He then took a very comparable job that moved him to Ventura, California and pays him $115k. 60% pay raise. Living costs are so much higher there that he says its effectively more like a 15% raise.

As an aside, a bachelors in Petroleum Engineering might not be a bad way to go if you've got the math skills.

PHeller wrote:

JThw8 wrote: The key (for me anyway) was to get a skill in something that no college is teaching anyway so the degree doesn't matter, and that very few people do so you are always in demand.

What do you do and could someone get a job today doing it without the years of experience you have accumulated? That's the thing. Many jobs that were previously good paying job without degrees now require a masters and engineering degree in order to replace.

The latter is kinda the problem - I worked my way up to a job in the "reasonably comfortable income" bracket without a degree (dropped out of university), but it's taken 15-20 years to get there and I have close to 25 years professional experience in software development.

You can probably make $100k doing software development 3-5 years into your career, but you (a) need a degree for that and (b) you'll end up in a place with a high cost of living. Think Bay Area, Seattle, NYC and the like so $100k doesn't get you that far.

JThw8 wrote: On the flip side I live and work in NJ, pay scales are higher here because the cost of living is stupid. I'd make less doing what I do but probably live better in many other parts of the country.

And this is why I think the "trickle down gain through cheaper goods" effect isn't a real thing. Employers know that your cost of living is low and adjust their pay accordingly. See also: Jobs in big cities vs. rural areas; The Iron Law of Wages.

GameboyRMH wrote:

JThw8 wrote: On the flip side I live and work in NJ, pay scales are higher here because the cost of living is stupid. I'd make less doing what I do but probably live better in many other parts of the country.

And this is why I think the "trickle down gain through cheaper goods" effect isn't a real thing. Employers know that your cost of living is low and adjust their pay accordingly. See also: Jobs in big cities vs. rural areas; The Iron Law of Wages.

I'm paid at about 15% UNDER MRP...

.... for the job title below what i actually have.

My 22 year old daughter just graduated from the two year licensed practical nurse program. She starts at just over $30 per hour, and this week she will book 66 hours.

She will explode if she keeps that pace up, but its a pretty good leg up.

I'd suggest that anyone thinking about college vs a trade should read this book. The author exhausts the subject in regards to working a trade or going to college. He did both so knows of what he speaks.

Shop Class As Soulcraft.

The majority of people I know who make over 6 figures have degrees. A minority of people I know make 6 figures without them. Those people either own their own business or are in IT.

If my job goes away I'm looking into a job that is physically necessary and where the technology changes slowly. Being physically necessary to me means I have to be onsite physically to do the work OR it cannot be outsourced. That includes trades like plumbers, electricians, HVAC techs, etc. The slow technology part also includes those trades but would apply more to plumbers than to say HVAC or electricians. You might not get rich in these jobs but you will have a job. Also, in those trades there is a serious glut of guys who are about to retire. Young guys studying that stuff will be the root from which the next crop grows. I believe they will be compensated and well.

Xceler8x wrote: I'd suggest that anyone thinking about college vs a trade should read this book. The author exhausts the subject in regards to working a trade or going to college. He did both so knows of what he speaks. Shop Class As Soulcraft.

^^^This. Crawford is really thought provoking.

Here's an interview with Stephen Colbert where he talks about many, but not all, of the topics in the book.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/231844/june-24-2009/matthew-crawford

We generally blow it on these types of discussions.

Stop focusing on WHAT you do. Start focusing on WHO you work for, and HOW you do you work.

For example. Carpenter was mentioned earlier. Residential carpenters will NEVER make 6 figures. But commercial carpenters, or skilled casework installers working trade shows or the hospitality industry can do it with ease.

Welding can be a horrible job. I know a company that has dozens of over worked welders working for $9-15 per hour. But welding in a power plant, or robotics fabrication can break $200k easily.

Sales, sure. If you are selling tractors, mainframes, medical supplies, or high priced hookers. But not if you are selling clothing.

Same for self employment. The grass is always greener when you have not been there. Sure, there are business owners that are a success. There are also many who have failed, and many who barely scrape by year after year. I know a woman who owns a health store- in 5 years she has never drawn more than $200 per month. I'd say the ratio of successful business owners (over $100k) to flops is about 1:10. Might be over 1:50. It has to do with WHO they work for (their customers), and HOW they structure things (creativity, networking, business structure, etc)

Grizz wrote: I'd like to point out that you don't need to make six figures to live well.

PHeller wrote:

JThw8 wrote: The key (for me anyway) was to get a skill in something that no college is teaching anyway so the degree doesn't matter, and that very few people do so you are always in demand.

What do you do and could someone get a job today doing it without the years of experience you have accumulated? That's the thing. Many jobs that were previously good paying job without degrees now require a masters and engineering degree in order to replace.

This is also part of the issue, no degree, training etc is getting you in the ground floor at 6 figures, you still have to pay your dues and get there.

I did 11 years in the military, vaguely doing IT work, nothing related to my current line of work. So at 29 I left and went to a company doing the same thing I was in the military making $50k They used a specific software package for IT issue tracking and change management which I was expected to use and asked for training. They paid for the training, full certification, much more than I needed for my job. Then they decided they needed someone working fulltime on managing/developing that software, they happily paid me $80k to to that since getting someone from the outside would have cost 6 figures. I left there and did consulting in the same software and eventually took a full time job with a company, I was making $80-$90 k doing that for different companies. I made a name for myself because many companies wanted a full timer and most people who can do this only want to consult. I would fulltime for a company for 2-4 years by that time I had the system "fixed" and running so well I could turn it over to a junior person and move on. I did that, hovering just under 6 figures until I was 38 then got headhunted by my current company, I was what they needed and they paid for it. So it took me 9 years from learning the skill to breaking 6 figures. I've been there 6 years and in typical fashion I've made the system good enough they dont really need me, but I've also picked up new skills and made myself useful in other areas so I can stick around, and they want me to stick around. On top of the salary I get 16% bonus (which depending on performance can double) 4 weeks of vacation a year PLUS the week between Christmas and New Years off. 6% in a retirement account even if I don't contribute and matched up to 10% if I do. As previously noted, I'd take a pay cut to keep this job because the company is very good to me and I don't feel sleazy when I tell people who I work for (I previously worked for Comcast, and a pharmaceutical company with a bad reputation, I usually lied about where I worked)

So could someone else do what I do today? Absolutely, its still a small market, but you also have to get in there and make a name for yourself. You have to avoid the lure of consulting which pays VERY well but is very sporadic and take the full time gigs. And above all dont chase the $$, chase job satisfaction and an employer worth your time and effort, if you get those things you'll find the $$ doesn't matter quite as much.

SVreX wrote: Stop focusing on WHAT you do. Start focusing on WHO you work for, and HOW you do you work.

This is dead on. The guy that I am working with is one of the most wealthy in our region. He is on multiple city and county boards, basically every person in this town knows his name. He is a millionaire and still drives an old pickup truck and an old Turbo Thunderbird. He works hard and is very business smart. Basically if he likes you he can open many doors for you.

With the connections he has once we get the bugs worked out of our system I bet we will have half the farmers in the valley using our services.

JThw8 wrote: And above all dont chase the $$, chase job satisfaction and an employer worth your time and effort, if you get those things you'll find the $$ doesn't matter quite as much.

This.

If you can find an employer who doesn't treat you like a prisoner and understands you've got a life to live, provides good vacation and benefits, you'll learn to budget around a less-than-competitive wage.

Unfortunately many companies don't realize that flexibility and paid time off really do compensate for lower wages.

rebelgtp wrote: With the connections he has once we get the bugs worked out of our system I bet we will have half the farmers in the valley using our services.

You guys going to map that information in any way? Need help mapping that information?

Whether you work for yourself or an employer, I still consider that I'm a one-man enterprise. My real job is to create value for whoever I work for, whether it's clients/customers or an employer. The more value I create for them, the more valuable I become. If I can be replaced easily, then obviously, I haven't created anything unique or particularly valuable.

PHeller wrote: Unfortunately many companies don't realize that flexibility and paid time off really do compensate for lower wages.

This.

While I can't say I'm in anyway underpaid, I know I could go and find a higher salary if I moved. But, I get 4 weeks’ vacation and a week at Christmas, that's 5 total. Now I may have that the day I started work in the UK, but over here in the US that's almost unheard of. I have a good choice of health care plans and a matching 401K. I joined the company too late to get a defined benefit pension, but I'm not going elsewhere for an extra $10-15k to lose what I have. It's worth way more than that to me.

PHeller wrote: If you can find an employer who doesn't treat you like a prisoner and understands you've got a life to live, provides good vacation and benefits, you'll learn to budget around a less-than-competitive wage. Unfortunately many companies don't realize that flexibility and paid time off really do compensate for lower wages.

I agree 100%! But it doesn't compensate for everyone. Personally, work life balance is key for me (and I don't get enough in my opinion). But 95% of my coworkers don't have a life and would rather spend every hour they could at work making more money. This puts me at a disadvantage but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make.

Xceler8x wrote: I'd suggest that anyone thinking about college vs a trade should read this book. The author exhausts the subject in regards to working a trade or going to college. He did both so knows of what he speaks. Shop Class As Soulcraft.

Added to my list, thanks!

Xceler8x wrote: I'd suggest that anyone thinking about college vs a trade should read this book. The author exhausts the subject in regards to working a trade or going to college. He did both so knows of what he speaks. Shop Class As Soulcraft.

this.