Our house is laid out in a backwards L, with our bedroom at the tip of the base. We need new smoke detectors, but it occurred to me that if one goes off toward the back of the house in the middle of the night we’ll never hear it.
Does the interconnectivity work well? Do some work better than others? Has anyone here used them?
I had a set of Nests in my house in California. They seemed to work ok, at least that one time when my wife tried to turn pancakes into coal.
They're supposedly not as good as others at detecting smoke from a smoldering fire.
I think Consumer Reports recommended the Kidde systems in their last issue. I can look when I get home if you'd like.
In reply to The0retical :
Thanks, I’d appreciate that!
Since this is the internet, I feel obliged to make a semi-related comment that doesn't really answer the question...
We've got ones that are interconnected, but hard-wired. I realize that's the new code and all and I'm sure that some people find that there are benefits, however, when you're shopping those systems you might consider looking for a model that has some way to identify which of the detectors is detecting and which of them are simply parroting. I've had a couple long nights where they're ALL going off, but there's no mechanism to determine which one is causing the alarm so it's a whole bunch of unplugging units one at a time and ladders and 3am don't always mix well.
As a point of reference, I believe hard wired interconnected devices with battery backups are required in all new construction, and renovations. Devices are required both inside and outside every sleeping area.
I am not aware of a code allowance for wireless devices.
Part of me says to heck with the code. Saving lives is much more important than worrying about the rules. But make sure your protection is equal to or greater than the required minimum.
It occurs to me that a wireless system probably depends on your WIFI, and that could easily be interrupted, especially in the case of a fire. But also for non-payment, system malfunctions, etc
I am watching with interest, as I have similar issues in my own home.
In reply to SVreX :
Unfortunately there’s no attic access to the tow additions to our home, so wired options aren’t really feasible.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
I have never seen a house that couldn’t be wired.
Might be surface mounted, or snaked through walls, or conduit or wall mold, but I can’t think of a single scenario that couldn’t be hard wired. Might not always be pretty.
Like I said, I have a similar problem (including the access issues). I’m not gonna rule out any options just because I am lazy or don’t like the look.
If this thread convinces me that wireless offer adequate protection, I will use them. So far, not convinced.
In reply to SVreX :
Oh I’ll totally be the first to rule out options - I’m both cheap AND lazy!
In reply to Pete Gossett :
I’m cheap and lazy too. Believe me, I really want wireless to be the solution.
But if one of my kids died of smoke inhalation because I was too damned lazy to pull a wire somewhere, I don’t think I could live with myself.
It would be worth looking into how they talk to each other. The smart option would be for them to talk over Bluetooth or create their own wireless mesh network. Or even just a simple radio signal so they don't have to chatter all the time - an actual network isn't really needed, just an "oh crap, it's going down!" broadcast. This does not require cutting-edge tech or an internet. I suspect the Nest units are IoT units which means they're likely dependent on an external WiFi and will eventually suffer some sort of hacker attack.
Our house (built in 1983) has hard-wired, interconnected alarms. One falsed the other day and I realized they're probably the originals. I'll be replacing them all soon and it does appear that most of them do have a "it was me, I am the one who sounded the alarm" indicator on them these days.
The0retical said:I had a set of Nests in my house in California. They seemed to work ok, at least that one time when my wife tried to turn pancakes into coal.
They're supposedly not as good as others at detecting smoke from a smoldering fire.
I think Consumer Reports recommended the Kidde systems in their last issue. I can look when I get home if you'd like.
There are two basic types of smoke detector, as you'll learn very quickly. One is good at detecting smouldering fires, one is good at conflagrations. I'll be using a mix depending on location.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
There are also heat detectors and carbon monoxide detectors, both of which are useful, depending on location.
These are the ones that caught my attention. They don’t use WiFi, and don’t require a central command module(like the Kiddie’s I saw). I’ll need 5 to cover the house & garage, with ~20’ max between each unit.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
I’ll bet you need more.
You need them BOTH inside AND outside bedrooms. Not just within 20’ range.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
BTW, some communities (or lenders) require smoke detector code compliance before a property title can transfer.
If hardwired are are required, you’d have to do it again.
Probably doesn’t apply to Biloxi, but may be worth considering.
Couple of observations on that unit you linked...
- They have a hardwire option. That might make them a very useful dual option approach
- They appear to be programmed to sunset after 7 or 10 years (conflicting info). This might require all units be replaced after a certain amount of time
- There are a lot of comments about having difficulty interconnecting the units Not sure if there is an issue, or stupid users
- They will not interconnect with some newer units by the same manufacturer
- They are about 4X the cost of basic hardwired interconnected units
Thanks for starting this thread, Pete. I need to get this done right away at my house (and now it’s on my radar)
Smoke detectors are required:
- inside each bedroom
- outside each sleeping area and
- on every level of the home, including the basement.
I have a 4 BR 2 story house with no basement. This is how it would work at my house:
- 2 upstairs bedrooms with a common small hall. 3 detectors
- 1 downstairs BR. 2 detectors
- 1 more upstairs BR separate from the other 2. 2 detectors.
That’s 7 detectors required.
I also have an attached garage. I want a heat detector there, and a carbon monoxide detector.
It is also reasonable to consider putting them in the kitchen (I’d use a heat detector), in storage areas, near central heating units, and near the base of stairwells.
I think I will have 10 units for my 4 BR house. Although, if they need to be within 20’ range of each other, I will have to add 2 more.
SVreX said:In reply to Pete Gossett :
BTW, some communities (or lenders) require smoke detector code compliance before a property title can transfer.
If hardwired are are required, you’d have to do it again.
Probably doesn’t apply to Biloxi, but may be worth considering.
While I’ve come to realize the home inspector we used did absolutely nothing but sign a piece of paper, there were only 2 ancient smoke detectors in our 3br/2ba 2200sq-ft home when we bought it 3-years ago.
I’m not questioning you at all, just stating that at this point anything will be an improvement.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
Understood.
My house came with one 30 year old battery unit.
Ive got some work to do!
I doubt the wireless ones use anything like Bluetooth or Wifi to talk to each other. They might have WiFi to do fancy smart home stuff, especially the Nests, but an alarm signal is likely to be a simple coded blast of RF picked up by the adjacent detectors then passed on. I'm making a big assumption here, but it's based upon the way the wireless alarm systems work. They do not have chatter between the units, they have a signal they send until acknowledged that says "ZONE OPEN" then later when the door is closed / motion stops / smoke clears they send "ZONE RESTORAL" messages.
I'm sure there's going to be some manufacturer that doesn't do that, but they would be exceptionally stupid. You don't want anything as fragile as WiFi or Bluetooth in charge of connecting life safety systems.
In reply to Pete Gossett :
Here you go.
dculberson said:I doubt the wireless ones use anything like Bluetooth or Wifi to talk to each other. They might have WiFi to do fancy smart home stuff, especially the Nests, but an alarm signal is likely to be a simple coded blast of RF picked up by the adjacent detectors then passed on. I'm making a big assumption here, but it's based upon the way the wireless alarm systems work. They do not have chatter between the units, they have a signal they send until acknowledged that says "ZONE OPEN" then later when the door is closed / motion stops / smoke clears they send "ZONE RESTORAL" messages.
I'm sure there's going to be some manufacturer that doesn't do that, but they would be exceptionally stupid. You don't want anything as fragile as WiFi or Bluetooth in charge of connecting life safety systems.
That makes perfect sense. It's old tech, but it's solid tech and it should always work. Really, it's fundamentally no different than the audio alarm, just a different frequency.
But guess how Nest does it? Ugh.
Nest Protects connect wirelessly using a Nest-developed protocol called Weave that uses 802.15.4 and Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n. It uses both connections together to create reliable, flexible, secure and low-power communication between Protects. This allows multiple Protects to remain connected to one another even if your home’s Wi-Fi gets disconnected.
https://nest.com/support/article/What-is-Wireless-Interconnect#Wireless-Interconnect
I have 3 of the Kidde wireless ones They don't require a central hub, but you can set them up with a Wink hub (possibly others now) to contact you if an alarm goes off.
Changing batteries is interesting as they all run through the power on diagnostic together when you change the batteries on one of them. So the whole house starts chirping away and talking in English and "French" (poor girl has a horrible accent).
I never did set up the Wink hub...
This is what I have
In reply to The0retical :
Thanks!
My city is still on the 2015 code, but if I remember correctly from a conference I attended, one change to the 2018 International Fire Code from the previous 2015 is that all new smoke alarms must be equipped with a 10 year permanent battery to supply backup power. The hard wiring supplies the power, the internal battery supplies backup power in case of loss of primary power source. This is a way of forcing people to replace smoke alarms before they get too ancient.
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