No one has mentioned the GREEN.

In reply to Tom and JG :

I'm glad to hear it's on the list.

If we're checking tires to make sure they're 200tw...can't we just check date codes as well and only allow old aged-out used slicks? (With WD40 sprayed on them to soften them back up, of course)

Gets rid of the $1400 new tire gang, but keeps the cheap used budget slicks gang happy.

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Lotus Europa with a 3.75" circle.

Question: if a car is reliable enough to make tons of runs, can they run both 200TW for overall *and* purple crack for exhibition?

In reply to slowbird :

Why you hating on the $1400 new tire gang?  Even though I support going 200tw I will admit I wasn't considering the special cases of limited availability.  I'll also admit that if we could run slicks I'd most likely be part of the $1400 new tire gang if I thought I had a chance of finishing high. 

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Bolt pattern is one dimension. Must also consider width, offset, and weight, plus rolling radius and how that affects CG height, understeer gradient, etc.

Tom Suddard said:

The influencers are a great idea, but unfortunately that goes back to the money problem. The event just can't support that kind of marketing expense in its current form. I get that it's a bit of a chicken or an egg situation, but being small means we don't have a big war chest to crack open for big risks.

 

Challenge the influencers to put up or shut up. They might come for free. Heck, try to get those guys that did Roadkill to come and do the drags to set a reference time. 
No, wait, that might be a bad idea for them since the Nelsons might hurt their sponsor's feelings.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Bolt pattern is one dimension. Must also consider width, offset, and weight, plus rolling radius and how that affects CG height, understeer gradient, etc.

That's what I've been thinking about all day. I can get a 275 tire in 17" diameter, but the car would sit an inch higher. With the four link rear I can correct that easily, but the front end is much less flexible. The most likely scenario for me will be running 245/40/15 Rivals on the wheels I already have instead of a 275 or 295 width A7. I don't how many seconds I just gave up, but I've built the car biased to autocross to make up for time I know I'll lose to faster drag cars and some of that autocross advantage just evaporated. I'll be watching to see what JG comes up with.

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

No, wait, that might be a bad idea for them since the Nelsons would hurt their sponsor's feelings.

Fixed that for ya 

And like it or not, limiting lateral grip via 200TW without limiting longitudinal grip by outlawing drag slicks definitely shifts the dynamic scoring balance toward the drag cars. Which doesn't make sense to me at all. I guess I'm salty about more than just tire cost after all.

Stampie said:

In reply to slowbird :

Why you hating on the $1400 new tire gang?  Even though I support going 200tw I will admit I wasn't considering the special cases of limited availability.  I'll also admit that if we could run slicks I'd most likely be part of the $1400 new tire gang if I thought I had a chance of finishing high. 

I don't think she's hating on it, just looking for a compromise solution.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

Bolt pattern is one dimension. Must also consider width, offset, and weight, plus rolling radius and how that affects CG height, understeer gradient, etc.

And when ya run 10" tires, I think bolt pattern questions are sorta irelavant. 

As a challenge outsider I'm kind of confused, honestly.  I've never been to the challenge, mostly because of the distance (and I can be a lazy butt,) but I've never thought the use of slicks in the autocross to be something that would discourage me from competing.  I'd come to see the crazy stuff that people build, watch a 9 second drag pass, and hang out with like minded people.

If I brought a car it would autocross on used sm7s, because that's cheaper than a new set of Re71rs or whatever the hot autox 200tw is these days.

Limiting tires makes sense for a racing series like GLTC or Champcar but I don't see how it adds anything to the $2000 Challenge.  It's such a unique event.  From my conversations with people who have been to the challenge, it seems like the draw is the experience of the weekend itself, not just the on-track competition.  It's a bucket list thing for me to do, but not because I want drive to Florida for a few autocross runs and drag passes.

Unless you all have a bunch of people lined up telling you that they would enter a car if autocross slicks weren't allowed. Then don't mind me.

Administrative question for Tom/JG........would an Exhibition class car (in budget, but with A7 tires for the autocross) be eligible for any drag strip trophies if it were quick enough?

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

I'm just giving her a hard time.

Related to this discussion.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

There are 15x6" Europa options

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Width offset and weight are wheel related concerns that any challenger need to take into consideration though. I'll likely be selling my OE wheels to recoup to purchase used GSR blades, due to width and offset.

That concern is not independent to vehicles that came with 10 to 13 inch wheels. There are a good number of persons who have run Jeep wheels because they were cheap and added width to run wider tires. 

Those concerns have to do with chassis selection and what to purchase and nothing to do with tire limitation or availability of size. 

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

There are 15x6" Europa options

Not exactly a Challenge budget friendly solution for machinenbau's problem though.

In reply to Stampie :

Interesting that the R1 and Rival are that close. They are similar size and my issue is more that I'm being forced to a narrower tire by the rule. Many years ago I ran an autocross  car on Formula Ford take-off slicks and then switched to Yokohama 001Rs ( I did say it was many years ago!) and the car was actually quicker and easier to drive because the Yoke's didn't need the heat the slicks did. I'd be fine if the Rivals, or any other 200TW tire existed in a 275 or 295/35/15 size.

In reply to Stampie :

Ha, definitely not hating on them. But yeah, would like to find a compromise that aids the goal of bringing costs down without screwing people's in-progress builds.

Also, for the record I will never have $1400 of tire money, but I probably won't have new 200tw tire money either. What if we make everyone run no-name all-seasons? 

In reply to slowbird :

Westlake for the win.

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to 03Panther :

I would be curious as to what their bolt pattern was. As there are very few completely, 100% entirely unsupported bolt patterns on post 1970 vehicles. 

Mostly 4x98 mm Fiat/Alfa and it isn't that there are no wheels (there aren't very many), its that fitting larger 13" wheels and tires on something like an X-1/9 basically means you're limited to 195/45 15 without cutting up the body.  A lot.

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

There are 15x6" Europa options

I looked that up. Not sure you understand the point of the challenge. 
You have made some good admin suggestions, but your spending decisions are much different than mine 

In reply to 03Panther :

Hey, I sent you a(completely unrelated) email the other day. Let me know if it didn't come thru

Whew!  Glance away from this page for a day and the world explodes.

The Zoomboni ran this year on $325 worth of take off Avon A11s.  Due to the loophole closure I was relegated to "exhibition" class and got no consideration for an award, which I gotta say, stung just a bit considering how I did in the dynamic portion of the event.  

As far as spreading the word and gospel of GRM:  The folks from PAXattack podcast came out to interview me about the Zoomboni and the Challenge.   I autocross in three different regions and constantly hype GRM and the Challenge to anyone who shows an interest in what is pretty clearly an attention getting machine.

So having two classes (street and unlimited) would be kinda cool to bring some of us in from the cold while allowing people to compete inside their builds' comfort zone.   But a 200tw rule for me at least makes it more expensive, not less.