I'm in the beginning stages of a project car, '58 Fiat 600, and am sort of thinking of building to meet the Challenge budget. As for the fender flairs and aero, would it be a no additional cost thing if I borrowed the various components from friends and used them to make molds from to cast my own pieces in fiberglass? Of course the cost of the resin and mat would be added. but how about the borrowing aspect. Would there be a made up "rental fee" that would need to be figured out for the budget or would it be free?
Just wondering in advance and haven't seen this topic come up before.
Thanks—
the parts you borrow to make molds from are considered tools and are not included in budget.
the materials you use to make your molds are also considered tools and are not included in budget.
the materials you use to make your parts that are on your car during the challenge are included in your budget.
Because I love quoting rules.
If you build a fiberglass bumper for your car and spend $50 on fiberglass mat, $40 on resin, and $1000 on mold-making supplies, than you may add the bumper to your budget at $90.
Thank you for the info ! Got the engine/chassis/etc. cost all sorted as I bought a failed dune buggy "project" and can get a receipt for that easily, the body will be a problem as it was a "help me clean this trash out of my yard" thing and figuring out the FMV will be hard. Might just abandon the Challenge aspect, but if I can do it, all the better, if only for the next owner down the line.
In reply to MuSTANK :
When you say dune buggy, is it on a vw pan? Just asking because of the production body/frame rules.
As a Subaru 360 Microcar Challenge competitor who also owns a Autobianchi Transformable potential future challenge car consider me intrigued by said Fiat 600 challenge car.
In reply to MuSTANK :
Post some picture of the body. I have 2 potential data points to help with FMV. Subaru 360 empty shell $1 sold on this forum. Rusty complete Autobianchi $100 also sold on this forum.
Alternatively you could asses your hours of labor provided to the cleanup effort at your states minimum wage and put that in your budget because you directly traded labor for parts. I know people have done this before for trades. This is provided that the car was reasonably "publicly available" and not an inside deal where you got it for free from a friend. Like if anyone could of helped provide a few hours of labor and dragged the car home.
In reply to Stampie :
Yes, I picked up a partially built VW pan based dune buggy, the pan was shortened and the wheel base is exactly the same as the Fiat 600. I also found a VW based sand rail tube frame with the same wheelbase. Might grab that just in case. What are the "production body/frame rules" These might keep me from going forward with the challenge build part of it and just have it be a regular street car in the end.
In reply to nocones :
I'll grab some photos of the body shell tomorrow when the weather clears. There were several of us helping out, clearing the land. The town came down on him because of the cars on the land and the potential hazard. We were all there for a few hours, until the mosquitos got too bad to continue. NOT the most fun, but I did get to grab up a trashed body shell for the effort, seriously, nobody else wanted it ! Challenge or not, it has some potential to be a neat project.
In reply to MuSTANK :
Sorry today kicked my shinny. Here's the rules quote.
Any four-wheeled, production-based vehicle that was originally sold as a passenger vehicle is allowed.
Vehicles may either retain production frame rails or equivalent unibody structures, or they may use a tubular frame provided they retain the production body.
If the vehicle uses a tubular frame, then modification of production exterior bodywork is only allowed provided the end result is substantially similar in general appearance to the original vehicle. Sweet box flares are specifically allowed.
If the vehicle retains production frame rails or equivalent unibody structures, then exterior bodywork modification is unlimited, provided no safety rules are violated. Production frame rails or equivalent unibody structures may be modified to alter a vehicle’s wheelbase.
So basically if you have production frame (bug pan) you're good with modified body and can shorten the pan to fit the wheelbase you want. You sir seem to be good.
Now I don't suggest that you interprert it like Frenchy and think that you can make a copy of a production frame as a copy is a copy and not production.
In reply to Stampie :
You just can't help it, can you?
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
What? Did I mess up quoting the rules?
Sorry for the delay in posting the photos of my tired little Fiat 600, been raining like mad around here. As the photos show, it's just an open shell, the floors have been torched out of it. Rotted from the lower doors on down with damaged body work in the rear sides and all wheel openings. I have access to a set of fiberglass Abarth fender flairs that I can make copies of, the dune buggy body has a front dam of sorts and a neat rear wing kinda thing. Figure that I can graft all of these to the body in place of some of the rotted metal and just cut the remainder away and substitute wood or fiberglass from the buggy body where needed. MAYBE . . . ! ! ! I'm semi-optimistic. Semi, anyway. I know that the body is trash, but I REALLY would like to own a Fiat 600 and anything else is just way out of my budget.
In reply to MuSTANK :
With that body you could build a tube chassis under it.
In reply to Stampie :
Were I to grab up the tube frame sand rail (make the necessary wheel base and front suspension/brake mods) and slip the body onto it, can I also make modifications to the body with regard to flairs and aero? The rules seems to mention that "If the vehicle uses a tubular frame, then modification of production exterior bodywork is only allowed provided the end result is substantially similar in general appearance to the original vehicle." I kinda think that the Abarth pieces and the front dam/rear wing would not be allowed as these would definitely alter appearance of the little pedestrian Fiat body shell. Not sure though . . .
In reply to MuSTANK :
I turned a Subaru 360 into this and ran it last year with even less bodywork on it. I'm running it this year and I would be really disappointed if it got deemed illegal when my intentions were clear from the beginning and it ran legally last year.
I think if you build something interesting with a story, and it's built safely and to NHRA rules, our hosts won't care what kind of frame it has.
Weather or not someone will protest it I'm not sure. I am sure there are some who think my car is not fully within the rules, but most of my OEM body is still present and it resembles a 360 just with some EXTREME flares. The stock fenders exist and the stock fender line is used as the basis for the new inner fenders to attach to. After running the event in 2021 the verbiage of the tube frame section was not tweaked so at least for 2022 I consider legality of my car to be settled.
I think if you make a tube frame version of your car that looks like one of those crazy wide hill climb cars from Europe with full Aero you'll be fine. And be my hero.
But given how big of effort these builds are I would reach out to Tom with what your plan is and just validate with him that he feels it is acceptable.
You do have to be careful with the NHRA rules. They are fairly specific about what the tube frame looks like and is made out of. It took a fair amount of research to make my frame compliant. The way I did it isn't the only way but it is a legal way.
In reply to MuSTANK :
Check out nocones' Subaru 360 for the answer to that.
Thanks for the tips and help and "reassurances," before I go ahead with anything chassis related I'll certainly check in with Tom for the final word.
Our local drag strip is NHRA and I've seen quite a few sand rail based cars run there on Import Day and the VW Drags. Were I to be able to grab the sand rail tube frame as a base, I suspect that it would be legal enough. The modified VW pan would certainly fall within the rules. Were the stock sheet metal floor pans removed and only the "spine" retained along with an upper tube frame as support and body mounting areas, I think that I could, MAYBE, get to where I want to be without having to spend on the VW based sand rail frame. MAYBE . . .
For right now I need to contact the folks in charge and begin sorting out the loan for the body parts. I'm sort of hoping that I might be able to just buy the Abarth flairs from the person making me the loan. The deal was that I repair the flair, they're busted in several spots and one is broken in half so the cost wouldn't be all that much at all. Still need a ton of work, but not as much as repairing them, making a mold, and casting new pieces. Once I get things started, I'll be sure to post some pictures of them so as to prove that I'm not just trying to sneak in something nice at a low price.
Were I to be able to get my friend to sell the fiberglass flairs to me, would they need to be available to everyone and advertised and all before I could buy them, or can they simply be purchased without any problems. I ask because the person that I got the dune buggy from also has some VW speed equipment that I would like to grab up before it's gone. I'll most likely buy it anyway as I would need it for the buggy engine regardless of whether the Fiat ends up in the Challenge or not.
Again, thanks for the help, I'm gonna need it !
