Let's say you wanted to take a $0 car to the challenge. Under current rules, I think that means you have to buy parts lots and spend less than $1k total, and then recoup everything you spend. Fair enough. That means a great challenge would be in the consumables. IE, what if you need a few cans of spray paint to make the fender presentable? Even worse, a little bit of bondo? Welding wire? What if your junk needs a new head gasket? etc. You could trade (or even self-trade...) budgeted parts for things like paint or fuel line or whatever I think.
That said, what recipe would you use to build a free challenge car?
Would your $0 recipe be significantly different if you could recoup MORE than the purchase price (but still limited to $1k recoup) so that you could fund a few cans of spray paint by selling other parts?
$0 budget is harder than $0 out of pocket.
Honestly, if things had gone a different way on the "theft is allowed" clause in the rules, I may have had a loose plan to steal a GRM project car and show up with it and a $0 build book detailing the heist. Maybe.
Realistically, I think a good starting point would be a basket case project combined with the "your labor is free" clause. Clean somebody's entire shop in exchange for that old disassembled racecar in the corner, build a new deck for somebody in exchange for that engine that was sitting under the old deck for years, etc.
MrJoshua said:
$0 budget is harder than $0 out of pocket.
I sort of agree. Unless the out of pocket means you don't get the safety exemptions like 4 free tires and replacement brakes.
A "true" $0 out of pocket car would be pretty hard too.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
But isn't trading labor for stuff now priced at "exchange rate"? Ie minimum wage?
That labor exchange rate thingy is my new favorite loophole.
Now if I can just find somebody that wants to trade IT leadership consulting for Honda d16 rods.
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Actually, now that I think about it, this is labor market arbitrage. An hour of labor is valued differently in two markets (the open market and the challenge car market), and the difference is value is captured on the challenge build.
To do this you must trade off for anything you need before selling to zero out parts cars. For example I'm trying not to sell anything off my 350z until I get all my big ticket budget items in trade. That way I can offer a unfair to me trade value wise with the more desirable parts. Most people try to zero out then trade.
Mndsm
MegaDork
4/22/20 4:38 p.m.
I think the idea would be to buy as complete as possible, trade out everything possible, and sell down to 0. Horse trading would be the hardest part when it came to consumables. How do you trade a fender for a case of oil?
Alternatively 0 out of pocket and 0 budget don't have to be the same. You could sell into the negative but you can only claim to zero. That negative could be your slush fund for budget exempt consumables.
Labor is covered under the exchange rate rule. It's no different from paying a seller with Canadian fun bucks or francs or something.
And child labor is free right? Anyone need Lil Stampie to mow their lawn?
In response to OP: uhh, blow endless time and money warping it all to heck, and likely still go over budget/never finish....
Oh wait, that's not what you're asking. I could loose money selling something you gave me.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
I contemplated this with the DSM. I have all the gaskets to put it back together & plenty of other parts to zero it out.
However, I didn't see a reason to throw it back together without at least paying to get the head checked(and likely decked, which would hit the budget). I'm also not sure about using the unknown brand head gasket I have vs. buying a good Fel-pro or similar.
Then there's the horribly crappy suspension on the car now(seriously it's almost on the bump stops and/or in bind at ride height) vs. the $800 Koni Sport coilover & camber plate setup I have ready to bolt on it.
Since I have better access to the engine bay now, I might as well get some paint & make it look as good as I can...
After all that & the other little things that need done I think I'll still be under budget by a fair amount - as long as nothing catastrophic fails during testing - so it may make sense to use my remaining budget for some other upgrades if there's time.
I just don't see a reason to bring another crappy performing car to the event. Not that I'll have a chance at winning overall, but it should be capable of performing well in the autox & drags.
Labor for parts/Exchange rate clause + FMV self trades = the path to a $0 Challenge budget car.
A person could spend a whole year documenting the budget on top of however long it takes to build the actual car. Challenge math ≠ Reality
Can we do it without significant use of the self-trade?
I guess if you buy two complete miatas (or any other car) for $500 each, and then combine them, and sell off the pieces of each you've got a pretty good mid pack $0 car assuming you don't need any maintenance parts or paint or anything.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
Just drive it hard enough to break all the maintenance parts and replace them under the "wear and tear" rule.
I traded, out of courtesy mind you, a 4 pack of beer for the EGT. It needed a fuse. I've put a few hundred into it, as the car deserved working calipers, functional, but junkyard score, plug wires and rear hatch struts that supported the hatch. And tires that weren't dryrotting.
More will likely be coming, but unless it gets boosted, it'll be well under $1k real money. With zero recoup.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:
I traded, out of courtesy mind you, a 4 pack of beer for the EGT. It needed a fuse. I've put a few hundred into it, as the car deserved working calipers, functional, but junkyard score, plug wires and rear hatch struts that supported the hatch. And tires that weren't dryrotting.
More will likely be coming, but unless it gets boosted, it'll be well under $1k real money. With zero recoup.
Sounds like it will be cool and quick, but not a $0 car!
I have one i could get there for $0. I can't say what it is or how except that it was so well bought that it could easily be $0 challenge budget and probably put $1000 in my pocket
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
True, but if I wanted to go challenge $0, I could've swapped on calipers from my parts protege lx that was $350, 100% of which is claimed towards the 323 budget for the BP engine and G series swap. Power window switch netted $20, power mirrors and switch netted $50 and I got $89 for scrap after stripping it in the front and rear subframes, suspension arms, hubs and brakes. I could argue that FMV on used protege lx calipers would be the same as core cost and the cores would be coming off the escort. It can be done, I just opted not to as I want to retain extra calipers to have rebuilt and ready as spares with available parts dwindling for the chassis. Even the fuse would've been available from the protege. I could swap the calipers on the EGT with the protege ones, same with the plug wires, and pull the Radwood inspired headunit and pioneer speakers and I'd be there for challenge purposes, but it's just not the plan.
I would say that luck, knowing a platform and being active within that community is the way to go. People who enjoy and appreciate platforms give deals or even stuff away to people who they know will appreciate it and will use it. It's one of the most strange, we make our own luck situations that I've observed, but it's part of what makes the community great.
There's another way, that's legal, legitimate, valid and definitely out there for anyone, but it's creative, so I'm not disclosing it until I get to the parking lot.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Yes!
If I could do one part of my build differently it would be to first trade my most valuable bit of my parts car for the big ticket items i needed for the build, and then sell the rest.
If you sell the most valuable stuff first you quickly kill your recoup (bad) and end up with not-valuable parts that you could sell on ebay, but are almost impossible to line up a trade for (worse).
Hypothetically, what if someone bought a car like this for $1,000, sold off or self-traded $1,000 worth of extras that came with it, and drove it 1100 miles to the Challenge without having to spend a budgeted dime on preparation?
The good:
-New front pads and rotors (Done at Zim's)
-New CV boots (also at Zim's)
^^(Unfortunately this cost more than I'm selling the whole car for)
-Doesn't overheat even in Texas - I put in a 160 thermostat
-Has some extras: 996 throttle body, 996 shifter, underdrive pulley, secondary cat bypass pipes, 160 thermostat, the cool headlights that were being sold on here, LED taillights with originals in a box...probably some more stuff I'm forgetting.
-Has the Porsche factory airbag bypass installed so you can deactivate passenger airbags for kids to ride
The bad:
Convertible top stuck up
Check engine light with smoky exhaust as mentioned
2 keys, but remotes stopped working a while back and I never dealt with it (I think it was after disconnecting the battery for something)
Probably some other minor stuff in keeping with a 20 year old car
In reply to AAZCD (Forum Supporter) :
Did you buy that!?! That would be an excellent way to bring a $0 car...
