1972 Beetle Restoration

Sweet!

I autocrossed my '72 yesterday. EJ22, standard VW transaxle. Yours is already in much nicer condition than mine. I'm interested in your progress.

rollins111 wrote:

JohnInKansas wrote: I autocrossed my '72 yesterday. EJ22, standard VW transaxle. Yours is already in much nicer condition than mine. I'm interested in your progress.

John, how fast is it with an EJ22? Are you running the stock Subaru ECU? I've been going back and forth for months about which engine to swap in. EJ22 would be the easiest (since no cutting of body required) and the cheapest (using a donor car) but I want this car to be fast. Not just faster than it was.

In the Wartburg which is about the same weight at a Beetle (weighed in a 2200lbs at the challenge with a cage) a stock EJ22 with VW transaxle was running very low 15s in the 1/4. Out on the track at Summit Point for Lemons the word from the other competitors was that there were about 5 other cars that could catch it in the straights (out of 75+) but since we were still working out suspension they annihilated it in the corners. The 2.2 in a bug will be very fast. Like anything you will get used to the speed, but it will scare the crap out of you the first few times.

In reply to rollins111:

Yeah, stock ECU. Not quite "no cutting required", but very very nearly. Only cutting I had to do was on the rear panel between the fenders for clearance over the timing cover.

I'm still running original suspension, with the single addition of a 7/8" rear sway bar. Worn-out steering box, crappy tie rod ends, squashy shocks. It's fast, though that's comparative. I don't know what the 0-60 is. We were seriously doubting the speedometer ("we aren't really going 95, are we?"), but we confirmed it yesterday on the way to the autocross. With stock gearing, 80mph is about 4000rpm, with rev limiter at 6500. Fast enough to be either "giggle like a high school girl" or "crap your pants in sheer terror". Sometimes a little of both.

If you're just looking for a comparison to the dual port 1600, its not a fair comparison by any measure. EJ hands down. WAY faster, WAY quicker. I'd have to imagine the improvement between the 2.2 and the 2.0turbo is not quite that much again; stock engine is about 60hp, EJ22 is about 140, EJ20T is about 190.

EJ22's are pretty easy to come by for cheap, my engine and harness will have cost me less than $200 when I get the carcass sold.

JThw8 wrote: ... it will scare the crap out of you the first few times.

This.

From a purely budget perspective too the VW transaxle is more than up to the job of dealing with the EJ22 so you dont have to go with the Subiegears conversion right away (although Im interested in watching if you do since I have a 2.0T sitting here to go in the Wartburg someday)

As John mentioned you can buy a whole donor car and sell off the rest to recoup your money. We basically ended up with our motor, wiring, ecu and some other parts free by the time we parted out the rest of our donor car.

rollins111 wrote: Thanks for the advice. I've been going back and forth for the better part of a year between EJ22 and EJ20T. Weighing cost vs performance. The way I figure it (and this matches what you're saying) the major costs for are: EJ22 with stock trans: Engine & stock ECU - $500 (maybe less) Bellhousing Adaptor - $500 EJ20: JDM Engine - $1,200 ECU - $1,000 Transmission - $250ish Reverse Cut Ring/Pinion/Subamount - $2,200 The difference is greater than $3,000. If you're saying that it's plenty fast with an EJ22 then I think you just convinced me. $3k is a lot of money...

If you are convinced to try otherwise I have an EJ20T with harness and ECU that I'll sell you for A LOT less then $2200. You'll need to source a new turbo and have the valves done but A LOT less than $2200 (and Im not that far away from Rising Sun.) You can run an EJ20T on the stock VW transaxle, my local VW guru who has been drag racing bugs longer than I've been alive assures me the stock transaxle is good for 220hp minimum. The CV joints would probably need upgraded though, although I like to think of them as my "fusable link" for the drivetrain, if something's gotta give I'd rather they be the weak spot than the engine or trans.

Looks like you are about an hour away from me. If you'd like to drive the Wartburg with the EJ22 to get an idea of what it will be like in your bug we can set up some time for you to come visit :)

(I hope this works; I'm at work, and photobucket is blocked, so I'm stealing the image from the hotlink thread)

Nice! Good luck with it, I'm deep in my own Subaru conversion (though a different application) but I have used subarugears.com as well. Good pieces and fast shipping from Australia. Also noticed you have a '12 TDI VW as well, as do I. We may have the same problems (and successes) on multiple vehicles in the future.

I was in the process of doing a 73 standard for my mom and dad before we moved. It then got tucked back into their garage where it has sat for 2+ years. Theirs was going to be all stock. But I will be following your motor swap with interest.

Nice work.

Ahh inspiration to get back to my Beetle project. Looking good so far.

You are making some great progress. You should be very proud. I can't add anything about the engine but, having a rust free driver is a noble cause in my book.

Chris

Follow up on my setup, since you are considering Scooby power.

I just threw a set of Bilstein shocks on all 4 corners in place of the (horrifically mushy) original shocks. Much much nicer in the corners, but scary wheelhop at launch... My google-fu says if you have enough motor, you need to consider solid-mounting the transmission and/or installing a Kafer bar (ties the wishbone/frame horns to the rear upper shock mounts, and the upper shock mounts to each other). Apparently not something to try and live with, either... going to have to do some looking around before we take the car out again.

All that said, we had an awesome weekend. Weren't quite the slowest, but easily 10 seconds down from the others in our class (a father-son duo in a Factory Five Cobra with a supercharged 302).

Also of note:

We did two autocrosses on the last tank of gas, and still managed 28mpg.

JohnInKansas wrote: My google-fu says if you have enough motor, you need to consider solid-mounting the transmission and/or installing a Kafer bar (ties the wishbone/frame horns to the rear upper shock mounts, and the upper shock mounts to each other). Apparently not something to try and live with, either... going to have to do some looking around before we take the car out again.

The drivetrain in the Warty is solid mounted. Sonic and I made up our own Kafer bar out of about $10 worth of supplies from the local hardware store. I don't recall any wheel hop issues when drag racing it at GRM. But yes, if you dont take care of it now it will cause issues quickly.

rollins111 wrote: In reply to JohnInKansas: Thanks for the follow-up. I've pretty much decided to go the EJ22 with VW Transaxle route. I'll just buy a donor car and then have ECU and most things I need.

Here's a link to the "how to" I used for the EJ22 conversion. Feel free to hit me with questions when you get to that point.

I kinda liked the paint job in the first pic you had, what's going on it this time?

You should put on similar checkerboard graphics. Looking good!

Loving this.

So close to color! This should look hot as hell all put together.

I'm liking the bodywork here, one thing I'm vaugely familiar with. How well does that bedliner handle heat?

The car is coming along nicely. Cant wait for the oustide paint.

rollins111 wrote:

DoctorBlade wrote: How well does that bedliner handle heat?

Thanks a lot! You just made me do some panic searches on google about raptor liner and heat. I hadn't thought of the heat issue before hand but it turns out that lots of people are reporting that raptor liner holds up well to heat. I found reports of people's headers being 1" away from the liner and not having any trouble. My exhaust will be much further away so I think it should be fine.

You're welcome! I always think heat issues with VW Bugs mainly because I live in MS, and I know they get stressed here in the summer.

Nice build!!1 And here's a thought... The money you don't spend by using a NA Subie engine can be spent on brakes instead to slow that thing down.....