¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to java230: Inb4hesaysvolvo240
Lol like this 500+ HP logbooked one for sale locally?
The want is strong, budget does not meet. and my mom drives one.....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to java230: Inb4hesaysvolvo240
Lol like this 500+ HP logbooked one for sale locally?
The want is strong, budget does not meet. and my mom drives one.....
^^^
Technically that is not a 240. It's a 262!
Nope, not a 262. The full-height 2 door is the 242, the 262 had a chopped top.
Observe:
In reply to mck1117:
Thats even uglier that I could imagine!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to java230: Inb4hesaysvolvo240
That's because you know I have a soft spot for Volvo 240s having grown up riding in them, and that I was looking for a Volvo when I ended up with the e30.
That said, if I were starting from scratch again (assuming a similar limited budget), I would do the e30 again. I still love the Volvos but I think the e30 is just as tough, better aftermarket, more "enthusiasts" out there to find parts and help from locally, and frankly is probably an easier car to build and work on - especially with the availability of so many drivetrains and LSD diffs out there to swap in at some point. Anywhere I go, I can be sure that I can find someone on the e30 forums nearby if I need spare parts or help or whatever.
I can't really think of anything else I would pick over the e30 at this point - I'd want RWD still so....Volvo 240 would probably still be the 2nd choice. And I'd probably do a 240 wagon just for cool factor! Not interested in RX7/rotary whatsoever. The thought of a vintage Datsun Z car would be cool (and I enjoy the one that shows up at most Eastern rally events and does well), but age and junkyard parts availability are downsides. XR4Ti is a neat car but same issue there. Nothing American that I have much interest in rallying. Maybe a Porsche 944, but it seems every time I see one rallying it is somehow broken, so IDK. I like having the 4 doors and big trunk and european=80s-car build strength, honestly. Ideally, if I could get my hands on a beat-up e30 TOURING (wagon) shell, I'd build using that just for fun. Some people may say e36, but I think they're a harder build than an e30 due to more reinforcement needed. Plus they make for ugly rally cars. The exception to that rule would be an e36 318ti. That would probably be my 2nd or 3rd choice, equal with the volvo.
For stage I'd probably start with a basic early 318 and immediately do an M54 swap into it before the build to get the power with a fairly lightweight big engine, IDK. That may be the direction this car goes someday once I run out of M42s, lol.
java230 wrote: In reply to mck1117: Thats even uglier that I could imagine!
Hey now, styled by Bertone'!
Also a note: it makes me happy that Nonack hates e30s for some reason. Because in an e30, I have little doubt that he would be substantially faster than in an equally-sorted RX7 (and faster than me in my e30). And it would be harder for him to break. So Chris, keep not buying an e30 
In reply to irish44j:
Thanks for the input! I was looking at a e36 318ti build and thought it looked like a nice starting platform. There are millions of cheap 240's though....
Did somebody say rallyx Volvo 240?
java230 wrote: In reply to irish44j: Thanks for the input! I was looking at a e36 318ti build and thought it looked like a nice starting platform. There are millions of cheap 240's though....
I'd say you can't really go wrong with either, and both are popular rally cars in various European series, so that says enough about how good they are. I'd say the one downside to the 240 is that in stock form the engine is pretty wimpy (what, 105hp on a red block non-turbo?) - so the main options are to drop a white block six in there (200hp) or turbo it (which has its own issues in a rally environment, I'd think). WIth the 318ti it's not a powerhouse engine (M42/44 is good for 140hp or so in stock form), but it's a pretty easy swap to any of the sixes out of other e36s if power is your need.
I don't know, I never had much trouble breaking my e24 or e28. I'm fairly certain I'd kill an e30 or e36 in short order if it didn't have significant chassis reinforcement, at least if the flimsy crap under our 318ti is any indication.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: I don't know, I never had much trouble breaking my e24 or e28.
as opposed to all those other cars that you haven't broken IDK, the e24 and e28 were a lot heavier cars and less designed for sporty driving, I would think. Can't speak for the engines, but I certainly don't think engines are a weak point of the e30 or e36, frankly.
I think the e30 chassis is stronger than the e36 overall, but the TI should have a stouter rear end than the regular e36 in non-reinforced form, I would think. That said, the way you drive I think it's pretty clear that whatever you have will probably need substantial reinforcement of stuff (clearly the RX7 did...).
I don't know the Ti well, but what stuff looks particularly flimsy? I know several Ti's race in the RG318 cup in germany and they are pretty limited to a few "spec" mods. I don't recall hearing from any of those guys about having particular chassis problems...
I don't recall Hooper or Jesse or any of the RA/NRS e30 guys having major problems either, other than rear trailing arms bending (Hooper) and upper rear shock towers (Jesse, but he has a full coilover conversion back there so a lot more stress on it). Us bending the uppper mounts in the rear was directly attributable to picking the wrong springs which were binding at full compression over jumps and stuff. That problem has been resolved with beehive-type springs.
YMMV though. I think you drive aggro enough that you'll break pretty much anything you get, lol. I"m a bit more careful than you
Just normal stuff- trailing arms are teeny, front and rear shock/strut mounts look weak, tabs on the subframe, that kind of stuff. Now, tie the cage into all that E36 M3, double up on the steel thickness, add some gussets and it's probably strong enough... but that goes for anything. The trailing arms on the RX7, for example, are fine despite bottoming that bent 1/8" plate and separated some chassis seams, same goes for the stock subframe.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the driving style thing though- stock chassis on ANYTHING isn't beefed enough unless I develop a little more sensitivity to bumps/yumps
well, at least you get nice air for the pictures. We look totally boring lol.
I wonder if the TI subframe is different from the e30 - I always assumed it was basically the same. I'm probably going to find some spare trailing arms and do some reinforcing and then swap them in at some point. Will see how the stock ones hold up to BRS, since I hear it has a good number of yumps....
mck1117 wrote: Nope, not a 262. The full-height 2 door is the 242, the 262 had a chopped top. Observe:
There were non Bertone 262's
ok fine we can bring it over here. For a starter car, rwd/fwd or pony up the $$ for awd? There are ~4 stage rallies in my area yearly, and a few rallyx (which honestly doesnt do much for me)
Ive been talking with a guy who owns a geo metro, logbooked, tubro'ed, raced in CA through last season, says its not really a "winner" car, but seems like a good starter car perhaps, not a ton of $$, needs a tranny. Or f I can likely find a rwd car thats not yet finished for around the same $$ but would need finishing and logbooking.
In reply to java230:
What do you prefer driving? Is awd a goal eventually or is competing in whatever class you happen to end up in more of a goal? A lot of people seem to view 2wd cars as a "stepping stone" rather than a class to compete in.
In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:
I'm fine with 2nd, but I don't really have much experience with fwd. I just want to get out and do it at this point. I do have an audi in my driveway, but I think awd may add a lot of complexity and cost at this point.
If you want rwd I think the Purple Panda is still out there: Panda!
I actually tried to buy that thing before the RX7, but the guy didn't want to deal long distance.
In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:
Panda = $$$. Emailed you.
I don't want to spend that much yet, I want to get my feet wet, but there are not that many local ish rallies.
In reply to java230:
Local is relative- Black River is "close" for me at only 5ish hours.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote: In reply to java230: Local is relative- Black River is "close" for me at only 5ish hours.
Yeah I get the Oregon trail, Idaho, doo wop (when they run it) and Olympic. Those are all within 8ish hours. Not much sadly, East coast has a lot more. There are a couple in BC now that I think about it though. One winter one summer iirc
I bought this for about what it costs to get a cage installed:
It came with a JDM ITR engine, 16 tires, DMS suspension, and a crap load of spares. The only downside are the seats and belts are expired.
I have driven mostly AWD or FWD, so honestly I am not sure how well I would do in a RWD vehicle.
java230 wrote: ok fine we can bring it over here. For a starter car, rwd/fwd or pony up the $$ for awd? There are ~4 stage rallies in my area yearly, and a few rallyx (which honestly doesnt do much for me) Ive been talking with a guy who owns a geo metro, logbooked, tubro'ed, raced in CA through last season, says its not really a "winner" car, but seems like a good starter car perhaps, not a ton of $$, needs a tranny. Or f I can likely find a rwd car thats not yet finished for around the same $$ but would need finishing and logbooking.
I mean, there is only really one stage rally within 4-5 hours of me every year (STPR). The next closest ones are Sandblast down in South Carolina and a couple up in New York. So no matter where you live (except perhaps in the Northeast) you'll have a limited list of "nearby" rallies.
That said, for me I can only afford to enter a couple per year anyhow, and I do enjoy rallycross as well (and also road race/Chumpcar a few races per year)...so I'm ok with that. Not going to run all over the country for rally like Nonack does ;) Can't afford to and frankly my car couldn't survive a ton of events at this point.
So I would also say "get something you like driving in the twisties on a nice Sunday morning" or something. I actually enjoy street driving my car in the woodland roats and intend to do some track work with it as well at some point.
Turbo Geo Metro? Well, it certainly sounds a bit insane - and I have no idea whether than makes for a good rally car or not, honestly. But who knows? IDK about a "starter car" per se. Can a Metro hold up to the beating? What about a turbo drivetrain (needs a tranny - is that common?). Are you going to be repairing it more than racing it? I know Chris (Nonack) likes his oddball cars and he has his reasons. I tend to like having a car that other people are rallying/racing as well - better aftermarket, better chance that people at the event will have spares that they could loan/lend if needed, and some amount of knowledge out there about how to set it up or whatever. So for RWD that's the e30s, Volvos, RX7s, 944s, Mustangs perhaps, and some others. For FWD clearly Golfs, FWD Imprezas, Neons, Civics, and a handful of others I guess.
My advice: FWD or RWD, get something you will enjoy working on, perhaps a make that you already know about working on, something that's known to be reliable with a good chassis, and I tend to say get something where there are other people actually rallying it. The knowledge I've gained talking to other e30 rally people has saved me tons of time, money, and frustration by using their lessons learned and setup knowledge to my advantage. I wouldn't worry about what is "fast" or not - slow cars can be fast with a good driver and when they don't break.....
In reply to NGTD:
Can you share what you paid? I just kinda want to skip the whole cage/logbooking issue.
In reply to irish44j:
While I totally agree on the using a proven platform, things that meet my budge are often not 'common platforms' I can see ther merit in a e30 per say, but sometimes you have to make it work if that makes sense.
Hes run the 2011-15 seasons in the metro, no idea if the trans is a common issue, he has main shafts made with straight cut 1st and 2nd gears, just need to build it. Im tempted by the cheap ass 240 wagons, but i see a year or two build involved, and I see money spent better on someone elses project/car they are letting go.
If this happens my mr2 will likely be going, which means I would like to find something I can drive in nice weather/summer fun car etc. I dont mind crawling over a cage if its fun/stupid to drive. (pink vinyl wrapped metro anyone?) just not sure it has the hp to be fun outside rally really.
Am I crazy to think about trying to drive this thing home 12-16 hr wo/ a working first gear?? 
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