1988 Chrysler Conquest Ecotec Swap

obsolete said:

yupididit said:

In reply to obsolete :

The transmission from the 240sx and 300zx fits in the transmission tunnel. They can take bit of abuse too. 

For the 240sx transmission, you mean the 5-speeds that came behind SRs/KAs? I forget what those are called but yeah, they definitely look like they would fit. I always thought they were fairly fragile. For the 300ZX transmission, you talking about the Z31 NA transmission? The Z32 transmissions are pretty beefy. The Z31 turbo transmission is a T5 :)

The z32 transmission. As far as I know the sr/ka/z32 share the same transmission internals. I know my buddy has a ka trans behind a turbo vh45 and it takes the beating. Plus they're rather cheap to buy lol 

Somebeach (Forum Supporter) said:

Pretty interesting.  I didn't know there was an adapter for ecotec to T5. That's why I love reading these build threads. Always so much to learn. 

Thanks. There are, in fact, a few other ways. One is an off-the-shelf part from Quick Time: https://www.holley.com/products/drivetrain/bellhousings/chevrolet/parts/RM-7041.

Another way is to use a factory bellhousing with the GM metric pattern and a starter pocket on the left (when viewed from the driver's seat). You can get one of these from a '94-'95 2.2L S10/Sonoma (engine/transmission mounted straight up, Ford T5 pattern) or a V6 3rd-gen Camaro (rotated 17 degrees, Chevy T5 pattern). Although the bellhousing bolt pattern is different, these bellhousings work because the alignment dowels in both the Ecotec and GM metric patterns are in exactly the same place, so it's easy to make a thin (1/8" or so) adapter plate between the two. The plate doesn't have to be precise because the alignment dowels are locating the transmission relative to the crank for you.

Apparently Quad4Rods used to make a custom bellhousing, but they've been out of business for a few years now. There's also an adapter plate from Bates Engineering, but I'm not sure whether that's still available either.

All of the solutions above mean you'll be using an Ecotec clutch and flywheel, though. The Speed Gems kit is the only solution that offers an upgrade in that department.

Another engine update...

Got it on the stand. Avoiding the lower bolt holes so I can eventually remove the oil pan leads to some awkward mounting, but it seems solid enough.

Good news: This thing is not too sludgy inside. There's noticeably more carbon buildup around cylinders 3 and 4 than 1 and 2, not really sure why, but it looks fine.

Good news: This timing chain is in great shape, it's nice and tight, and that upper guide looks almost new.

Good news: Wait, does this thing have a new timing chain on it? The guides and chain look way cleaner than everything else, so they must have been replaced recently, and that gasket is a Fel-Pro, not OEM. Score!

Bad news: This cam lobe is kinda funky. It's one of the intake lobes on cylinder 1, so it's not right underneath the oil cap. It's covered in a nice layer of oil, as is everything else in the top end, so I'm not sure why it appears to have rusted. Nothing else under the valve cover looks suspect at all, just this, which is weird.

Bad news: Some of the exhaust manifold studs took some aluminum with them on the way out, so I'll need to repair these later.

In reply to obsolete :

for better power on a 2.2 engine, if you are using that size.. don;t remove the head.. then get a 2.4 intake manifold and use a cable 2.2 throttle body, with an adapter from cbm motorsports ask for ' old ' sean  remove the head, you can take off .020 and up the compression very nicely.. i am just about finished with my ecotec into my 1984 alfa romeo spider...sorry late read.. you hac=ve the 2.4 engine... don;t know were you heard that the 2.2 were ' bad ' engines.. the 1 st year or 2,, they have timing chain problems,, but it was not the timing chain that was the problem, it was the oiler that sits just above the crank,, if you did not change the oil every 5000 miles it got plugged up, and staved the chain for oil... they also updated in 2004 the timing chain tensioner.. that also helped.. just a note.... the 2.2 engines have a lot more backing than the 2.4 on upgrades.. 

In reply to obsolete :the g.m. metric pattern will not work, it was false imfo..for some reason,, its still floating about on the net   a sky or it twinn transmission will fit, and 2 wd colorado will also work, check on the ratios on that one.. and i will check but a few trannys from a rear drive toyota celica might fit also..i did a lot of research on my conversion

In reply to obsolete :

Dead lifter on that cylinder?

Alfaromeoguy said:

In reply to obsolete :

for better power on a 2.2 engine, if you are using that size.. don;t remove the head.. then get a 2.4 intake manifold and use a cable 2.2 throttle body, with an adapter from cbm motorsports ask for ' old ' sean  remove the head, you can take off .020 and up the compression very nicely.. i am just about finished with my ecotec into my 1984 alfa romeo spider...sorry late read.. you hac=ve the 2.4 engine... don;t know were you heard that the 2.2 were ' bad ' engines.. the 1 st year or 2,, they have timing chain problems,, but it was not the timing chain that was the problem, it was the oiler that sits just above the crank,, if you did not change the oil every 5000 miles it got plugged up, and staved the chain for oil... they also updated in 2004 the timing chain tensioner.. that also helped.. just a note.... the 2.2 engines have a lot more backing than the 2.4 on upgrades.. 

Yes, I've heard of the "big runner" 2.4 intake. I'm not sure what I'm doing for an intake manifold yet. My 2.4 came with the "small runner" intake, and even though it looks okay, I'm not 100% sure I trust it since I know it got bonked in the wreck. I'd like to get an aftermarket forward-facing manifold but haven't made my mind up on that yet. I think I'll wait until the engine is in the bay to see how much room I have to play with around the brake booster and master cylinder.

The Gen I 2.2Ls are fine, and yes, there are more aftermarket parts for them. I wanted to start with a Gen II 2.4L for the extra displacement, newer computer, and to eventually move to the stronger sand-cast block. The Gen II bottom end is supposedly stronger from the factory as well, but if you're throwing aftermarket parts in anyway, that probably doesn't matter. As always, there is more than one way to do it.

Sounds like a cool swap, got a build thread or any pictures of the engine in the car?

Alfaromeoguy said:

In reply to obsolete :the g.m. metric pattern will not work, it was false imfo..for some reason,, its still floating about on the net   a sky or it twinn transmission will fit, and 2 wd colorado will also work, check on the ratios on that one.. and i will check but a few trannys from a rear drive toyota celica might fit also..i did a lot of research on my conversion

Have you tried it?

Here's an S10 build with a Ecotec + T5, he says he's using the 2.5L/2.8L bell. I didn't think that one had the starter pocket on the correct side, so he must have had to modify it for starter clearance: https://www.s10forum.com/threads/the-ecotec-swap-how-to-56k-warning.494496/

Here's another Ecotec with an F-body bell and an 1/8" adapter plate. These pictures are from Facebook.

84FSP said:

In reply to obsolete :

Dead lifter on that cylinder?

Could be! I'll check it out. Thanks.

In reply to obsolete :

i was just working with a direct engine to transmission set up..no adapters

In reply to obsolete :

yes, it's here,,, alfa romeo spider ecotec conversion

Time to seal everything up and try to get this engine clean before digging into it any deeper.

First, a bath in engine degreaser.

Then washed down with a hose (just regular garden hose at 80psi, not a pressure washer), dried with compressed air, and left in the sun for the rest of the afternoon. I'm not sure the degreaser really did much, because the engine wasn't really that greasy (it didn't appear to have any significant oil leaks) but I've had that 3/4 full can sitting on the shelf for years and this was my excuse to use it.

I decided that stage 2 of the cleaning process shouldn't be driveway performance art for the neighborhood, which meant rolling the engine on the stand into the back yard. This ended up being way sketchier than I would have liked, but I learned that the cheapest/smallest Harbor Freight engine stand will barely fit through a doorway if you can open the door 180 degrees...but since I couldn't, I took the door off, which works too.

The sketchiest part was rolling it up and over the door threshold, and off the slab onto the brick. I learned that laminate flooring scraps, while very flexible, are surprisingly strong and make decent ramps, but in hindsight it still seems kind of miraculous I didn't tip the whole thing over and dump it sideways in the yard while doing this. I was just in the mindset of being determined to get it done now and I got lucky, I guess.

Okay, time to start soda blasting.

Huge mess, but the engine is a lot cleaner!

The aftermath. Some of you are probably worried about but the fate of my lawn, but fear not, it was fine. I threw out the tarp (it was an old cheapo with a couple tears in it), swept off the bricks, then just hosed everything down. Some weeds and crabgrass got blackened and died, but by and large, the grass was fine. 2 weeks later, you couldn't even tell.

I hosed the engine off again, dried it with compressed air again, then successfully reversed its sketchy egress. Here's a before and after of the intake side of the block.

Before:

After:

As you can see, the soda didn't work miracles, but it did a nice job. While the aluminum is still somewhat discolored, it feels just like clean, bare aluminum. It's not just like new, but all of the nasty salt crust is gone, which makes it much more pleasant to work on. I'm satisfied with how it came out, and I'll be happy to put it in the car this way. Well, after doing a bunch more things, of course, but those are for future posts...

obsolete said:

Thanks! American Powertrain has some renderings from Tremec showing the TKX overlaid on the TKO and T5. Anywhere the TKX is larger is in green, anywhere the other transmission is larger is in blue: https://americanpowertrain.com/the-all-new-tremec-tkx-is-here/. The TKX is definitely wider around the midplate area. As long as that fits, the rest seems like it would be okay.

Oh, hadn't seen that! Good illustration.

The part where the TKX might be in danger is between the top cover and the shifter. I have to look at the cross beam that goes in the tunnel there...

Gustaf

Once I got the cleaned-up engine inside, the first thing on my mind was repairing those threads for the exhaust manifold studs, so that's what I started with. I've done a handful of thread repairs on engines before, and while none of them have ever failed on me, the whole process of drilling and tapping freehand always felt sketchy, and I was never really sure that my new threads were straight. So, this time I decided to use drill and tap guides, and I'm really happy I did.

Here's the drill guide in action, with some yellow tape for a depth marker. Weirdly, the Heli-Coil kit calls for a 21/64" drill bit for an M8x1.25 insert, so I picked up a standard guide with that size.

Later, I sacrificed my ability to ever drill straight 11/32" holes in exchange for being able to fit the guide over the holes around the #1 exhaust port. This is nice hard steel, bandsaw blade would barely touch it, but the grinder make quick work of it.

There are no tap guides specifically for Heli-Coil taps that I've seen, however TIME-SERT sells guides, and the diameters of their taps are the same, so their guides work with Heli-Coil taps too. It's not as stable as the drill guide since it's just a thin tube, but it doesn't need to be. All it needs to do is fit the tap precisely enough to get it started straight, and it does that very well. Oh, hey, that's a real (Harbor Freight) tap handle too! Upgraded from vise grips!

That's a fine-lookin' repair. I used 20mm long M8x1.25 inserts from McMaster. They had the best price on a 10-pack, and they turned out to be genuine Made in USA Heli-Coil brand. Honestly, with the drill and tap guides, this was so easy, after the first one, it got boring. I couldn't screw it up if I tried (although I know that some will say I screwed it up from the start by using Heli-Coils). There are 10 holes and I think I ended up doing 3 or 4 of them.

obsolete said:

Time to seal everything up and try to get this engine clean before digging into it any deeper.

First, a bath in engine degreaser.

 

Then washed down with a hose (just regular garden hose at 80psi, not a pressure washer), dried with compressed air, and left in the sun for the rest of the afternoon. I'm not sure the degreaser really did much, because the engine wasn't really that greasy (it didn't appear to have any significant oil leaks) but I've had that 3/4 full can sitting on the shelf for years and this was my excuse to use it.

 

I decided that stage 2 of the cleaning process shouldn't be driveway performance art for the neighborhood, which meant rolling the engine on the stand into the back yard. This ended up being way sketchier than I would have liked, but I learned that the cheapest/smallest Harbor Freight engine stand will barely fit through a doorway if you can open the door 180 degrees...but since I couldn't, I took the door off, which works too.

 

The sketchiest part was rolling it up and over the door threshold, and off the slab onto the brick. I learned that laminate flooring scraps, while very flexible, are surprisingly strong and make decent ramps, but in hindsight it still seems kind of miraculous I didn't tip the whole thing over and dump it sideways in the yard while doing this. I was just in the mindset of being determined to get it done now and I got lucky, I guess.

 

Okay, time to start soda blasting.

 

Huge mess, but the engine is a lot cleaner!

 

The aftermath. Some of you are probably worried about but the fate of my lawn, but fear not, it was fine. I threw out the tarp (it was an old cheapo with a couple tears in it), swept off the bricks, then just hosed everything down. Some weeds and crabgrass got blackened and died, but by and large, the grass was fine. 2 weeks later, you couldn't even tell.

 

I hosed the engine off again, dried it with compressed air again, then successfully reversed its sketchy egress. Here's a before and after of the intake side of the block.

Before:

 

After:

 

As you can see, the soda didn't work miracles, but it did a nice job. While the aluminum is still somewhat discolored, it feels just like clean, bare aluminum. It's not just like new, but all of the nasty salt crust is gone, which makes it much more pleasant to work on. I'm satisfied with how it came out, and I'll be happy to put it in the car this way. Well, after doing a bunch more things, of course, but those are for future posts...

nice work. also it looks like the engine took a nice trip thru the backyard     

here is my set up.. using a saturn  sky bellhousing and a custom t5( ford mustang ) adapter plate                   

therealpinto said:

The part where the TKX might be in danger is between the top cover and the shifter. I have to look at the cross beam that goes in the tunnel there...

Gustaf

I found another article that includes a diagram with dimensions. It's not as complete as I'd like, but it might be helpful next time you are under the car with a tape measure. https://www.chevyhardcore.com/features/sema-coverage/sema-2020-tremec-develops-all-new-tkx-five-speed-transmission/

Alfaromeoguy said:

nice work. also it looks like the engine took a nice trip thru the backyard     

Thanks!

Alfaromeoguy said:

here is my set up.. using a saturn  sky bellhousing and a custom t5( ford mustang ) adapter plate

That's a solution I wouldn't have come up with, but I won't say it can't be done when you're out there doing it. Cool that you made it work. Have you checked concentricity with a dial indicator? I know people weld up bellhousings all the time, so I can't say it won't be just fine, but I would've felt more comfortable using an F-body bellhousing with a GM-to-Ford T5 adapter. I think that combo would get you the same angle and depth. As always, again, there is more than one way to do it. Thanks for posting up another option.

at most from on side to the other.. the difff. is .37 mm  machinest  says its ok if i wanted,, i could just cut a shim from a pepsi can and shim of flat  the welded on adapter was a left over from my w/c t5 tranny to oem alfa romeo bellhousing,, slips on and off the engine,, very smoothly.. the tranny is laid over to the driver at 8 degrees/// think thats alot??? on a camaro/ firbird its at 17 degrees

Another update.

While I was on a roll from fixing the exhaust manifold stud threads, I thought I'd try addressing the heater hose ports on the thermostat housing. You can see in some of my previous pictures that whoever prepped this car at the junkyard just cut right through the steel barbs for the heater hoses, probably because that was the quickest/easiest way to get to the exhaust manifold and its precious integrated cat. I wish they had been a little more careful and left them intact, but whatever, not a big deal. With the engine in the Conquest, it's more likely those barbs would have been in the way or pointing a direction I didn't want anyway. So this is a good excuse for me to pull them out and just tap the ports for NPT threads.

I've pulled smaller pressed-in steel barbs with just heat and vice grips, but these were a little too big for that method, so I welded on nuts and pulled them out with a slide hammer, which was a walk in the park.

Since they are tapered, NPT taps are pretty forgiving when it comes to hole diameter. Depending who you ask, the drill size for 1/2" NPT should be anywhere from 45/64" (.703"/17.9mm) to 3/4" (.750"/19mm). These are in that range, so I should have no problem tapping some usable 1/2" NPT threads in them.

Back to the old bad habits, starting the tap with vise grips...

...then switching to two open-end wrenches for extra leverage to get to full depth.

I had some 1/2" NPT fittings left over from another project, so I measured the thread depth on one to make sure I was tapping the holes deep enough. Go figure, 1/2" NPT fittings have about 1/2" of threads on them.

Checking my progress, not quite there yet.

When I was confident that I'd tapped the holes deep enough, I checked the fittings. They are nice and snug with 2-3 threads still visible--perfect! I'll figure out which fitting sizes and angles I actually want to use once the engine is in the car, but for now, I'll just leave these in to plug the holes.

i have an extra one. t/stat housing if you want it

Alfaromeoguy said:

i have an extra one. t/stat housing if you want it

But I just put so much work into this one! I think the brass fittings are going to work out well for me but I'll let you know if that plan changes.

I bought a set of Solstice/Sky engine mounts and brackets (you may have noticed that they were already on the engine in some of the previous pictures). I test fitted them and I don't really like the angle. I guess I didn't realize how much the engine leans over in the Solstice/Sky bay. I'd rather mount it straight up like the EcotecMiata guys. I just think it looks better that way, which is kind of a stupid reason, but it's my car.

So, I may end up finding a way to use these, or I may end up just building my own brackets out of steel plate. We'll see how it looks once I get to the point where I can test fit the engine in the car.

In reply to obsolete :

do you have any other pics from the side showing the solstice mounts? 
 

Do you remember what you paid for them? 

Love it. Thanks for sharing with the rest of the class.