These first gens were never sold with a roof, correct? Just a flimsy fabric cover IIRC. So freakin badass.
These first gens were never sold with a roof, correct? Just a flimsy fabric cover IIRC. So freakin badass.
Remember, this was the concept car:
And this is what we actually got:
The promise:
The reality:
That is pretty dammed impressive, truly a concept car come to life. I wish the deep-dish rear wheels would have carried over though.
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
I think that's one of my other favorite things. It's one of the few cars where the concept and reality are so close. It's still out there by today's standards. You'll never second guess what you saw, heard, etc. "THAT's a VIPER!"
I'm going to order some stuff for a tuneup today, and get this car back to a place where it needs, and deserves to be. Side note: Looking at the parts cost I am shocked of the fairly reasonable price by comparison to something like Porsche or Lamborghini considering how rare these cars are.
I love the cheaper viper parts.
interesting tidbit: Lots of brake components from vipers rear is shared on my elise. Parking brake/brake pads
Alright, so....
Things I inspected and don't necessarily know the last time they were worked on and feel it'd be best to "just replace":
- MAP sensor
- IAT sensor
- O2 sensor
- Master Cylinder for brake
- Master cylinder for clutch (it's actually seeping every so slightly)
- TPS
- Coil packs (bought the upgraded "screaming demon" packs and wire set)
- Wires
- Plugs
- Pedal bushings (definitely worn out)
- Steering rack bushings
Total price: Not bad. Good lord if I had bought those in lambo parts all at once i'd be hurting. I went ahead and ordered all these and they will be here shortly. I figured considering the age of the car, regardless of miles, these are all things that would be best to go ahead and just do, be done with, and not worry for quite some time.
My experience with putting the ragtop on this thing so far.
My 911 top was great. Unfolded accordion style, then had 2 hinges that flattened. Twist the handles to lock in place, done deal.
914: Open trunk, pull rubber tabs, lift out, put on top, latch in place. Nice.
Lamborghini: Move holders out of way, lift top from behind seat, put heavy ass top on top of car, lock in place with bigass, heavy, solid handles that make sure you know it isn't going anywhere. Nice.
Viper: "Ok so first you unfold it, then you line these up. Then these hooks go here. Then you do the other side but wait... oh berkeley those hooks came loose, okay let's line those up again. Ok now try to put the hinges in place and... god dammit, berkeleying... ugh. Ok ONE MORE TIME. We'll just.... ah man i got that one, okay let's do the .... GOD DAMMIT the stupid hook is off on that side. Okay.... from the top.... Ok that's done, now let's align these dumb hooks, and then the handles. Why isn't it lining up? The berkeley man. Okay, move the handle back AGAIN... okay got that one, let's do this... WHY WON'T YOU GO IN YOUR HOLE. OKAY FINALLY, got it."
And that's putting the top on a first gen viper.
That top install video is a 90s zeitgeist masterpiece.
Took it out for a good 30 minutes today. It keeps stalling after it's warmed up and seems to be pretty rich. It's only when coming to a stop. Fires right back up with zero complaints. I have read numerous threads on the viper forums that this gen is incredibly dependent on battery voltage for the idle speed sensor and if they start dying or are weak, they will run great and idle like ass. So I'm going to go ahead and check the voltage in the morning, and then take it for a drive and check the voltage during idle. Then do it again while hot and see if I'm dealing with some weird battery, alternator or other issue. If that seems normal and not at all weird, I will do some testing on the idle speed sensor next and see if I can rule that out. Worst case, I buy a new sensor.
I may also have it tested and see what the O2 is with a sniffer since it seems pretty rich. I'm wondering if an O2 sensor is at fault as well.
Also... how in the hell does a car this old shift so great. The shifts are pretty damn crisp, it never feels like a floppy wobbly shifter that's all over the place. It's easy to tell where the gears are and shifting is so easy in this car.
IIRC aren't you shifting a T56? They're not the worst things in my experience.
In reply to corsepervita :
It shifts well because it was driven well by the previous owners. This is a great sign! Also (unlike a mid engine car) there is precious little mass between the stick and the gear.
clutchsmoke said:IIRC aren't you shifting a T56? They're not the worst things in my experience.
True. They are a T56. I've not owned a dodge before so my contrast to them is virtually nothing aside from knowing what transmission is in it.
TurnerX19 said:In reply to corsepervita :
It shifts well because it was driven well by the previous owners. This is a great sign! Also (unlike a mid engine car) there is precious little mass between the stick and the gear.
It definitely doesn't give me vibes that it was abused. The previous owner is an incredibly nice guy and I could tell he was really sad to let it go due to circumstances. He didn't come off the type to go romp on it 24/7.
Is the speedometer cable driven or electronic?
Dodge at the time liked to use the speed sensor to help control the idle using the speed sensor to prevent idle droop when coming to a stop. A partially dead speed sensor could do it.
They also used the speed sensor to control cooling fan speed and when they would turn on.
Just a thought.
Any codes set for anything?
A good cleaning of the TB's and going over of the vacuum lines is always a good thing to do while you're poking around, especially on a ride that old from that time period.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:Is the speedometer cable driven or electronic?
Dodge at the time liked to use the speed sensor to help control the idle using the speed sensor to prevent idle droop when coming to a stop. A partially dead speed sensor could do it.
They also used the speed sensor to control cooling fan speed and when they would turn on.
Just a thought.
Any codes set for anything?
A good cleaning of the TB's and going over of the vacuum lines is always a good thing to do while you're poking around, especially on a ride that old from that time period.
No codes, good idea on cleaning out the throttle bodies, who knows the last time a really good thorough maintenance was done on the car. My weekend task will be to clean it out and go through things a bit.
My father in law has a 96 gts with 2100 miles on it. It's sad seeing a beast like that locked in cage. I'm excited to see someone here get one and drive it and not make it a parking lot show car queen. They are meant to be driven.
Sorry. Haven't read past page 1. but didn't they make a crate V10 based on the later model Viper that was 600+ hp? That'd be a sweet upgrade here. Just sayin.
Well, bled the cooling system. It was low on coolant. Heater works amazing and could heat me out of the damn thing. The AC blows just as cold as my 997. I'm amazed that the electronic bits are working as well as they are for a '95.
My giant order of parts arrives today and I got some solid storage setup for the car that'll allow me 24/7 access in a very safe location (I do not feel safe leaving this in my driveway).
So this weekend I'll be giving it a MASSIVE tuneup. New TPS, MAP sensor, new O2 sensors, new IAT sensor, new Coolant Temp Sensor. From what I can see.... the spark plug wires are the original as they still have the skinny, crusty, old mopar wires on it. So the plugs were done a while back per the previous owner but I'm betting the coils and wires are original. The new coils that arrive are the "screamin demon" coils which are supposed to be far superior to the stock coils and even allow for a better gap. On top of that, comes with the better "live wires". The car is definitely doing a little stumbling on idle which I can't discern is because of O2 sensors, or a E36 M3ty ignition system.
The throttle response is pretty "meh" to small throttle changes and responds well to larger throttle input, which makes me think that the removal of the air box and moving over to the pod filters has changed the map reading. Either that, or it could be that the TPS sensor is starting to crap out and the map sensor is fine. I unfortunately do not know enough about how the ECU on these early dodge vipers works in terms of if it's speed density or closer to alpha-n, or if it's a blend on how they read.
I've been searching for documentation on it but the only thing I can find is old service manuals and diagnostics, no real solid "This is how these ecus work" - if I could, I think I could do a much better job diagnosing it. If anyone has any "viper guru" friends who know the early dodge ecus and how they work, I would love to understand more on how these things work.
The car is running pretty inherently rich on startup and seems to lean out a bit more to what I'd consider normal at operating temps. Looks like the temp stays proper, fan works proper so that's good. Until it's completely warmed up it does tend to hunt, and sometimes stall coming off the throttle which seems to me like an IAC valve. I read that you can turn the AC on to simulate it correcting the idle all the time, and if it fixes it then the issue is not the ISM, if it does not fix it then it is the ISM. In this case, it had no effect so it could be the idle speed motor isn't working. I also read that the ISM relies heavily on good voltage, have a new battery since the voltage is running low at startup on it so I'm starting to wonder if this battery is old and on the way out since cranking is pretty weak on the car.
Now, apparently the ISM can be cleaned, so I will probably take it off this weekend and inspect it and bench test it to see if I can apply voltage to have it open or close. I've read that idle on these cars is very finicky on the older cars especially once owners tend to go to aftermarket intake systems. I'm also not a huge fan of pod filters on the fronts of engines because hot air intake, and hotter IAT means less power once a car is warmed up. So I likely will look into seeing if there is a better, more efficient method that'll be closer to OEM. Problem is finding an original airbox to modify since PO threw it away.
Took it for a fun drive last night, it was pretty cold outside, I will say it has no gripes breaking traction on cold tires with not tons of throttle input, it has torque for days. You most certainly gotta be nice and be aware because that torque band feels pretty damn instantaneous. Hilariously, a guy in one of the car groups said "by today's standard this is like turning traction control off on a honda, they're not so bad and it makes just as much power!" and I thought "ok guy". - I can't think of a single accord with that type of weight distribution that's RWD and has that much torque. Just like any car, if you're nice and responsible they're driveable, but if you push it you should be doing it in the right place in the right conditions and know the handling behaviors of said car.
I suspect its straight Speed-Density. Chrysler didn't really do anything with Alpha-N in that time period.
Running rich could be leaking O-rings or dirty injectors, assuming the rest of the maintenance doesn't solve the issue.
Checking the date codes on the tires might be a good idea as low mileage super cars are even more dangerous on old, hard tires, probably as spring approaches that will be a bigger concern.
Stefan (Forum Supporter) said:I suspect its straight Speed-Density. Chrysler didn't really do anything with Alpha-N in that time period.
Running rich could be leaking O-rings or dirty injectors, assuming the rest of the maintenance doesn't solve the issue.
Checking the date codes on the tires might be a good idea as low mileage super cars are even more dangerous on old, hard tires, probably as spring approaches that will be a bigger concern.
PO claims the tires are "pretty new", and they do look pretty new and feel pretty supple, but they feel like touring tires and not aggressive tread at all given how easy she breaks traction.
Great point on the injectors as well, I may need to just pull the injectors and see if the orings are in good shape. I want to make sure I don't skimp on maintenance and just get it up to speed and happy.
I am far from an expert but it sounds to me like your O2 sensors could stand to be replaced. If it's hunting, maybe you're getting dynamic O2 readings causings it. Rich on startup kinda points that way too but maybe that's a Viper thing? (Who knows? I don't) It also does sound like your IAC might be going but don't know anything about ISMs so huge grain of salt there. Lastly, I can finally be the first one to toss out a "didya check your grounds" when you're have funcky electrical-y problems. woo! :)
Mainly, though, I'm just jealous.
Just saw some reruns of walker texas ranger last night and had forgotten that one of the characters drove a viper in it... also...
I'm willing to bet the air intake is part of the issue. The previous owner removed the airbox and added crankcase breathers - the system needs to be closed, otherwise said breathers will amount to a large vacuum leak that the PCM is attempting to compensate for. Those intakes are junk, anyhow, best to procure and install an OEM intake system and plumb the PCV lines back in.
Gab said:I'm willing to bet the air intake is part of the issue. The previous owner removed the airbox and added crankcase breathers - the system needs to be closed, otherwise said breathers will amount to a large vacuum leak that the PCM is attempting to compensate for. Those intakes are junk, anyhow, best to procure and install an OEM intake system and plumb the PCV lines back in.
Yeah it drives me nuts when people install hot air intakes and think that somehow just "upgrading" to K&N filters are the method of performance. *gag*
Finding an OEM intake on the other hand, that'll be a pain. But I'll see what I can do. Worst case, if I can't find one.... I /do/ have a 3d printer.
Found a rats nest of previous owner wiring under the dash for what I can only assume is probably some kind of scanner or alarm, or radar detector from back in the day that is no longer there. Wires literally twisted onto other wires with nothing to cover them, and this nasty autometer shift light that was drilled right into the steering column because someone watched too many fast and furious movies.
I spent a while getting rid of the rats nest of wiring, cleaning it up, heatshrinking any loose ends so they were no longer exposed, resoldering, and just going through it all proper. No more nasty shift light, no more rats nest.
New TPS is in, new MAP sensor is in, and so far it seems to be idling better and responding much better. The parts were definitely the original which makes me glad I bought all the parts to replace. The master cyl for the clutch is most definitely seeping, so I will get that replaced on my next "to do". Whoever installed this shift light, if you ever read this, you are grounded. Go to your room, and don't come out of it until you think about what you've done.
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