1998 Dodge Neon Modified class rallycrosser

You've got a mity-vac pump don't you? Try putting that on a vac line somewhere and seeing if it'll hold vacuum. I think it's pretty much the same process I use to check for boost leaks, but in reverse: take the CAI pip off the throttle body and cover it with something (I usually use a 2" rubber sewer cap, but I think the TB is bigger than the turbo inlet, so you can lay the palm of a nitrile glove over the TB opening and then use a hose clamp to hold it tight. At that point, you should be able to pull vacuum on the system.

If that is totally off base, I'll blame it on the growler of beer I drank plus the fact that it's been a while since I've done boost/vac leak check on the turdbo.

Knurled wrote: I pulled the head from a PT Cruiser today. Let it be known that a 10th level of hell has been commissioned for whatever committee designed the motor mount arrangement. I say committee, because it's so frustratingly difficult and asininely designed that no single person could possibly have created it. The service procedure for the mount *literally* has Step 1 being "remove drivetrain from vehicle". The bracket very nearly does require that as well, and the timing belt loops through the bracket, and the timing belt procedure conveniently glosses over how to remove it.

Thats because they pretty much rebodied a neon and narrowed the fenders. When they first came out, I liked the PT Cruisers because they were about the only small car out there with a lot of interior room. Now that we have better options, no, just no.

In reply to wae:

I can try something like that. my MAP reading is pretty stable though, so I assumed a vacuum leak wasn't an issue. At this point, I'll try about anything, though.

Quick update. Got a new o-ring, and switched back to an OEM cam position sensor. After some frustration due to me forgetting to hook up some wiring connections, I got the car going and driving around the neighborhood. No CEL! Also, instead of a stumble, stabbing the throttle causes the car to hang at the idle speed, then rev after a second or so, and it seems like I can apply the throttle a bit more aggressively than before before this trouble occurs. I'm guessing with no check engine light, the MP ECU is feeding a bit more gas/timing even at idle.

Tonight, going to try to remove a frozen bolt form my old 49mm throttle body. If successful, I'll swap it in and see if that helps even more. If it does, I'm sure I'll be down on peak power a bit, but I'll take it if it means better driveability.

Well, that sounds like improvement! Dang computers always think they're smarter than us...

So from the way you describe it, it sounds to me like it would feel just like in an ATX when you jab the gas and have to wait for the transmission to kick down? So more of a hesitation than a stumble now?

That seems like an easy fix, just don't lift.

EvanB wrote: That seems like an easy fix, just don't lift.

Once its moving its, fine, so I just have to start it up, and never stop rolling afterwards

eastsidemav wrote: Thats because they pretty much rebodied a neon and narrowed the fenders.

It's completely stupid in the Neon, too, and the service procedure is the same - remove drivetrain first.

Knurled wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: Thats because they pretty much rebodied a neon and narrowed the fenders.

It's completely stupid in the Neon, too, and the service procedure is the same - remove drivetrain first.

Wow, thats nuts. I've pulled every motor/trans mount in my neon without pulling the drivetrain. Wonder if someone in PT land has figured the workarounds for it, too.

It CAN be done if you remove the timing belt covers and the aluminum bracket, and then pry the engine way far over to the left with the standard issue 8' prybar (previously used for Tempo harmonic dampers) but there's no way to align it properly since they are aligned at the factory and the service procedure involves scribing all the way around the mount so it goes back in the same spot.

This mount only exists on the second generation Neon (what the PT is based on) It actually sits inside the framerail and the throughbolt comes out through the wheelwell. It's... asinine. Have a look at it next time you see Greenhouse's rally car, it should be the same.

I will allow that it's really easy to access if the cylinder head is off

Drove it to work today!

Still need to secure the lawn tractor battery, and reinstall the skidplate (installed my mounting bracket for it last night), but other than that, and zip tying a few things in place, I think its pretty much ready to rallycross. I'll be daily driving it until the rallycross, just to make sure all is well.

Neons 2K13 is being held this upcoming weekend in Cincinnati. It'll be nice to drive there with the Neon, instead of catching a ride with someone else.

Time to add a turbo!

any tips on engine removal since ill be doing the sdame job in the next few weeks to mine?

im putting another 2.0 in iot for replacement.

Dusterbd13 wrote: any tips on engine removal since ill be doing the sdame job in the next few weeks to mine? im putting another 2.0 in iot for replacement.

I pulled mine out of the car with the trans attatched. Not entirely sure I would do that again, it required a lot of finagling. Left the intake and exhaust manifold attached. Other than that, go slow, and make sure you disconnect everything

EvanB wrote: Time to add a turbo!

No no, no....no, no no....umm no.

The next off season will likely be dedicated to scooter projects, and minor stuff on the Neon, like redoing the exhaust, relocating the battery, and maybe removing the A/C, assuming all the R134a has escaped on its own by then.

I really should have had the system evacuated before all this started. Keeping the A/C has caused a lot of problems. However, it'll be nice to have on those long drives home after a 90 degree, 90% humididty event.

Awesome thread....good info, and nice read

eastsidemav wrote:

EvanB wrote: Time to add a turbo!

No no, no....no, no no....umm no.

More air = mo' bettah! You've got alllllllllllll that room there behind the exhaust manifold. And, with a turbo, the exhaust becomes super-easy -- just a pipe straight out the back! I can have an MS soldered up for you in a weekend while you get the intercooler piping and oil return bung welded up.

And you have the proven reliability of turbo neons in rallycross. You can't lose!

EvanB wrote: And you have the proven reliability of turbo neons in rallycross. You can't lose!

You're not entirely helping. Although I'm glad to see Bill's car finishing events under its own power now. Car not running sucks.

Knurled wrote:

EvanB wrote: And you have the proven reliability of turbo neons in rallycross. You can't lose!

You're not entirely helping. Although I'm glad to see Bill's car finishing events under its own power now. Car not running sucks.

Hey, I've pretty much found all the weak points for you at this point!

wae wrote:

Knurled wrote:

EvanB wrote: And you have the proven reliability of turbo neons in rallycross. You can't lose!

You're not entirely helping. Although I'm glad to see Bill's car finishing events under its own power now. Car not running sucks.

Hey, I've pretty much found all the weak points for you at this point!

Maybe, but now I need to find all the weak points of a 2.4 swap in rallycross.

One day of daily driving has convinced me my Window Weld-filled motor mounts are not up to running at Roos. Between a grabbier clutch, a lot more torque, and 50lbs more engine, the engine likes to jump around a bit if I'm not careful launching it. I'll probably run it as is at National Trail, but make sure to swap 'em out before the August Roos event. Of course, last year I broke my exhaust at National Trail due to bad motor mounts...

TAParker wrote: Awesome thread....good info, and nice read

Thanks, I'm hoping to keep it detailed enough so others don't make the same mistakes I have. Of course, I'm also hoping to stop making mistakes, too...

I think I win the Rube Goldberg prize for securing a battery. It involves about 2 feet of 1" nylon strapping, a plastic buckle, part of a bicycle inner tube, a trapezoid shaped cut from a 2X4, a screw-in brass hook, and a zip tie. Tech inspection should be interesting.

Also zip tied the air filter cone to a part of the battery box to lessen the chance of the warm air intake taking a vacation while driving in the dirt. And yet another zip tie to hold the oil catch bottle in place.

Well, long delay between updates, too much family life intervened for a while. On the way to and from Neons 2k13, the car seemed to be fine, but the temp gauge started climbing after about 30 minutes of steady driving.
Now, over a month later, I was able to convince SWMBO to ride along and record the temps with my obd scanner, since it appears the neon just has a temp idiot gauge. Rather than steady temps and a sudden climb, we saw a slow climb in temps on flats and up hills, and a slower decline in temps on down hills.

So, my first guess is I just barely don't have the cooling capacity for the increased heat the bigger engine is creating. That sound reasonable, or am I missing something? I think tomorrow, I'll build an air dam ( the car currently doesn't have one), and see if that helps. After that, assuming the stock radiator is in good shape, its probably time to look for a better radiator, and see if that does the trick.

eastsidemav wrote: I think tomorrow, I'll build an air dam ( the car currently doesn't have one), and see if that helps.

The little stock airdam actually does quite a bit for cooling. It creates a low pressure zone behind it, which encourages air flow through the radiator.