1998 Dodge Neon Modified class rallycrosser

eastsidemav wrote: Today, I modified the airdam so it could be removed without dropping the skidplate. My wife and I also bled the brakes, which took a lot longer than I planned for. I think I'll build a pressure bleeder before its time to do it again. Went to reinstall the skidplate, and between the damage it has taken, and the new engine, it no longer fit. Enter the 3 lb sledge, and the dremel to "adjust" the mounting holes. It now clears the oil pan by about 1.5", so I probably went to far, but I'll let the ground fix that at the next event. My wife and I took it for a quick spin, since she has yet to drive it since the swap. Went to a parking lot, so she could practice getting it going, an area she had an issue with in the past. With the newfound torque, she didn't stall the engine once, didn't even make it sputter, so she'll be a lot less nervous when moving it through the grid next weekend. I'll be driving it to work this week, and hope it doesn't reveal any other issues. Other than going back and reworking the battery mounting, I think it is pretty much ready for rallycrossing. Out of the garage again: The temporary airdam:

that looks like it can get easily ripped off in a rallycross

EvanB wrote: My cruising temperatures were 199-201F with a 193 thermostat. I switched to a 180 and my cruising temps are now 185-187. However I also switched to mostly water with water wetter and improved the radiator ducting so that may have helped.

Since you've also got a two-driver car, I'm curious, what temps do you tend to see sitting in the grid after a few runs? Between Lori and I driving the car, it doesn't get a ton of cooldown time, thus the garden sprayer.

In reply to fidelity101:

Its designed to be easily removed for rallycrosses. Uses the same bolt holes as the front of the skidplate, but 1 of the holes on the airdam is just slotted, so I remove three bolts, and loosen the other, and its slips right off. When I cut it down, I'm going to slot another bolt hole, so I only have to remove two of the skidplate bolts completely.

eastsidemav wrote:

EvanB wrote: My cruising temperatures were 199-201F with a 193 thermostat. I switched to a 180 and my cruising temps are now 185-187. However I also switched to mostly water with water wetter and improved the radiator ducting so that may have helped.

Since you've also got a two-driver car, I'm curious, what temps do you tend to see sitting in the grid after a few runs? Between Lori and I driving the car, it doesn't get a ton of cooldown time, thus the garden sprayer.

It sits around 11:30 on the gauge. It used to get hot during runs then need to cool off but after my cooling mods it doesn't move anymore.

(Sorry I don't have a fancy gauge that has numbers and stuff to give an exact answer).

Got it out on the highway with the 180 thermostat. in steady state, it seems to be running between 191-197 now, so thats an improvement. Still runs hotter in stop and go, so I'll need to continue doing more work before the next event.

Still had a bit of a coolant loss issue, turns out the heater hose was leaking. I cut it back a bit, and it appears to have stopped leaking. Also, shortened the airdam a bit to see if it would stop hitting the ground on bumps. Haven't had a chance to test it yet.

Since it is still running around 208-212 while sitting in traffic, and because any additional cooling will help at the rallycross, its time for hood vents

Started with this:

Cut it to this:

Made a couple of cover plates in case I don't want airflow (or rain) through the hood:

I also decided I'd screen them, up, so cut some aluminum screening material to size, taped it in place, and epoxied it down:

I removed the tape tonight, and once I get some more epoxy, I'll glue down the areas that had been taped, and also epoxy some stainless nuts to the underside of the holes around the vents, so I can install and uninstall the coverplates easily.

Finished the hood for now. The paint is drying, but tonight it'll get reinstalled on the car, so the Neon can be moved out of the garage for other projects. There's an event coming up this weekend, so we'll get to see if the 180 degree thermostat, fixed heater hose, and hood vents do the trick.

Gonna add some yellow accents for a Superman theme?

Looking forward to Saturday!

But... The.. The vents.... They aren't.... They aren't even! How does that even work!?

cghstang, not a bad idea...

wae - Okay Monk...go out to your garage. Open the hood of your car. Look where the hood structure used to be. The bracing is not even.

Something I learned when I was a kid and my dad would smoke in the car might relate to the vents. Might not, but I'll give it a try. If my dad opened his window a crack it would suck a lot of the smoke out. If I then opened my window the same amount as his the air got turbulent and less smoke was pulled out. If I opened my window, but less than him, then a nice crossflow developed and sucked pretty much all of the smoke out. I theorize that the unequal hood vents will work the same way and will more efficiently pull air out of the hood. Or it could just be that the bracing is uneven. Maybe. I'd stick to my explanation though because it sounds awesome and if you're convincing enough, asymmetrical vents will be the next big thing.
Oh, and don't smoke in the car with your kids.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Thats a good thought. I should go with that explanation.

Actually, I have a suspicion these vents will do pretty much diddly while on the course, but will be good for evacuating hot air while sitting in the grid. I think, while on course, what will happen is the air coming in under the front of the hood will hit the engine, and flow up and out through the vents, thus keeping the air that is being pulled through the radiator from escaping in that direction. However, since I'm not certain, I'd like to see it in action. If there doesn't seem to be an improvement in cooling, I will probably run some aluminum tape from top of the core support to the top of the radiator, and put some weatherstripping on the leading edge of the hood. That way, several square inches of area where air could get in around the top of the radiator will be blocked off.

I would highly recommend ducting the radiator inlet. Evan had persistently high temperatures when running two drivers at events until he sealed off the all the routes that air could take around the radiator. Air is lazy. It would rather go around the radiator than through those little squiggly passageways. Duct the front of your radiator and be rid of your overheating issues.

The Neon's got nostrils:

Highway temps are up to a max of 198, probably because I cut 1.5" off the bottom of the airdam so it would stop hitting stuff. Temps while sitting in traffic didn't seem to be any lower, but they took longer to climb with the hood vents. This Saturday will be the ultimate test.

Unless I can make it to the test event in NE Ohio, this will also be my last event before Nationals. Talk about a little unprepared...

Took 3rd out of 4 in the Modified Neon class this weekend, behind wae and cghstang, both driving wae's turbo Neon. I think I did alright in the overall rankings, we'll see when they get published.

Still having cooling issues. The newly replaced thermostat appears to have fluid weeping past the gasket, so that appears to be the weakest point with regards to pressure. However, I still need more cooling capacity.

I hate to use RTV where it isn't spec'd, but at this point, I am thinking a thin coat of it on the outer rim of the thermostat gasket is called for. Any other suggestions for fighting this leak?

Going to try to seal some of the area around the radiator, in the hopes that more air will help, but I think I am just running into the limits of the system here, and will need a bigger radiator. Would like to be able to put that off until after Nationals, and preferably after the regional season ends in November, because whenever the radiator goes, I am going to ditch the A/C system.

I would have liked to see Chris driving Bill's Neon. Then again, I would have liked to actually made it to the event also.

You couldn't really see much through the dust.

cghstang wrote:

eastsidemav wrote:

EvanB wrote:

eastsidemav wrote: We'll have to see how we compare to each other at National Trails in a month.

Probably still slower than RWD.

Challenge Accepted.

Can I get in on this action? Edit: come to think of it, I'd take the challenge in any of the vehicles being discussed

Just bringing this back up for posterity.

AM session (normal cumulative scoring): Turbo neon beats Miata and all other 2wd.

PM head-to-head: RX-7 beats Neon and Miata. And Neon beat Miata.

This mostly confirms to me that all of the cars in question are awesome.

I thought that there was a rubber o-ring-ish thing between the intake manifold and the thermostat housing. Maybe that is damaged and leaking? Or maybe I'm remembering a different car. Is it possible that there's a crack in the housing, or that the temp sender isn't sealing all the way? Maybe the heater hose is leaking? I'm just trying to think of things that could be leaking or spraying in that general area.

If I recall how it's set up, the rubber ring on the thermostat is just to keep the engine's cooling passages buttoned up if the thermostat is closed. If you run without a thermostat (and, thus, without that rubber seal), you don't get leakage at the housing-to-intake mating point. Leaking radiator cap?

I'd think that putting a thin bead of RTV around the housing wouldn't hurt. You'd be able to tell pretty fast if that wasn't getting the job done.

cghstang wrote: Just bringing this back up for posterity. AM session (normal cumulative scoring): Turbo neon beats Miata and all other 2wd. PM head-to-head: RX-7 beats Neon and Miata. And Neon beat Miata. This mostly confirms to me that all of the cars in question are awesome.

It confirms to me that the AM session was best dealt with by a car that handles well so it can stay out of the dust and not spin or otherwise get way out of shape.

Whereas the PM session was won by power, braking, and testicular fortitude in knowing where the course was going to be. It would have been more interesting if the course could have had more design features than "slight kink left" and "slight kink right" and "OH CRUD BRAKE!" but with the amount of dust and the lack of available workers for a really complex course, that's what we had to work with if we wanted the event to go smoothly and safely.

I think its the o-ring gasket around the thermostat thats leaking. It seems more like a seep than spraying anywhere. I'm feeling like a wimp right now, though, and waiting until it cools off a bit outside to check it out. Maybe thursday, I'll tear into it.

There was a bit of fluid on the driver side fender near some of the AC components, but I think it was from Lori or I using the garden sprayer to cool the car and overspraying a bit.

Debating whether its time to give in and get a heavy duty radiator, too. Of course, it might not hurt to remove the condensor, so it gets out of the way of the airflow.

Going to skip nationals again. Not enough practice this year and the car is too iffy to make the drive to Tulsa, race, and come back. Maybe 2014.

It's too bad you're in the exact opposite direction of Tulsa from me or I'd be up for a carpool. Next year? We need a GRM tent or something.

In reply to eastsidemav:

Bummer dude. I may be going now.

I'm really thinking of trying it next year myself.