In reply to wae (Forum Supporter) :
I’m not sure, but I seem to recall road racers considered Neon hubs to be consumables. It’s also possible the ACR had a slightly beefier hub for this reason. It’s been so long since I read about this stuff that I can’t remember anymore.
The acr had thicker hubs. Even then, they were consumables. Just longer between replacement. The hubs crack and deform.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael ("that guy" Forum Supporter) :
Hmm, in that case, it sounds like there may be a different problem, if there is some looseness between the hub and knuckle.
Acr has beefier hubs. Someone back in the late 90s built some even beefier than acr hubs and they lasted slightly longer. Thankfully they are dirt cheap.
I've heard about the ACR hubs being an upgrade. I had to get the wheel back on to move the car around so I didn't have a chance to really look at it, but it really seemed like the movement was in the bearing itself. Which seems improbable. When things calm down a little bit for me, I'll take a closer look to see exactly where the play is.
One of the problems I have, though, is that I can't just go grab any hub - my axles are thicker than stock so the hub has to be hogged out and re-splined to accommodate the axles. I'm hoping that the spare hubs I have were designed for axles of the same diameter and pattern.
Come to think of it.... that hub isn't all that old. When they made the axles for me, I had some Moog hubs drop-shipped from Rock Auto, so one would think that the hub itself shouldn't be that worn. Unless it was defective to begin with.
You heard the April event got canceled right? You have some time. (It's tradition the first event gets canned, but usually because of rain.)
In reply to Jerry :
I assumed that it wasn't going to happen, but I hadn't gone to check for confirmation yet.
For the record, though, when I was complaining that the first event always got canceled because of rain, I didn't mean that I was hoping for a different reason to cancel.
In reply to wae (Forum Supporter) :
Stay at home order in Ohio has been extended until May.
Shower time means thinking time. I still have to deal with the axle and the wheel bearing, but I'm going to wait until the axle arrives to think too much more about that.
For the engine mounting, there is an existing bracket between the engine and transmission in the front of the car/left side of the block that is numbered as "4" in the exploded diagram on the previous page. I've already pulled that off the car to get a look at it and it's not terribly complicated. So my plan is to get a new front engine mount and try to hunt down some Prothane inserts for it (I think I might have some on the shelf right now). Then, I will create a new bracket that is roughly shaped like the #4 bracket to bolt between the engine and bellhousing. Then, I can use some square tubing to connect between that new bracket and the (modified to clear the charge pipe) 1gn front motor mount. That all assumes there's enough room in there to do that, of course.
For the bobble strut, I need to fix the top bracket since it's all torn up and then I'll create yet another solid bobble bar, but this time I'll use a decently large round tube. I haven't figured out what to use at the top for a bushing, but I think I have some control arm bushings that would be about the right size.
That should support the engine through the abuse that Bitzer's yard dishes out!
Still haven't had a chance to inspect the hub v/s bearing thing and all, but I did confirm that if the hub itself is trash, things are going to get a little difficult. Apparently the hubs that Chris sent over were hogged out for an even thicker axle stub than they made for me, so they aren't going to work.
Ordered a new front mount from Rock Auto along with a bunch of other things for the other cars in the fleet. I still need to go through the spares bin to see if I've got a set of inserts or if I still need to get some. If I don't have any Prothanes, I'll probably just fill the mount myself since I apparently have nothing but time now. I whipped out the grinder and took off some of the bracket on a damaged front mount that was kicking around and I can definitely make it fit, but there won't be much clearance between the charge pipe and the bracket. If the mounts fail and the motor slams forward I will almost certainly put a hole in the boost pipe.
I also mocked up a couple different bracket designs in cardboard. It might be easier to build a bracket that attaches to the front of the #4 bracket, but it may not be strong enough. The good news is that there's actually a pretty good amount of room to get from where the #4 attaches to the FMM and it's a straight shot, so once I figure out the bracketry, the connection down to the mount will be pretty simple.
I have been going through the same thought process on my project's motor mounts. Same engine, but in a custom chassis. I currently have it set up using the stock SRT-4 left and right mounts (filled with urethane), and at the front am using 4 cyl Stratus brackets on the block and the SRT-4 dog bone down to the chassis.
I'm still thinking about what to do in the rear. I was going to use a bobble strut on custom brackets, but am not sure if that will be enough. I like the Prius lower mount that was pictured. The Mazdaspeed 3, Focus ST and RS use a similar arrangement as the only torque prevention mount.
Well carp.
The axle is 1 1/8". The spare hubs I have are 1 1/4" and the stock axle (and thus a stock hub) is something like 63/64".
The hub is definitely loose inside the inner race. I guess I'll have to send another hub up to Nick and see what it'll cost to have it machined. Truthfully, I'll probably send him two so I have a spare ready.
In reply to bgkast :
Woah, I totally missed this until now, sorry! I love what you have on the front mount there. You say the engine side is from a Stratus? 2.4? That looks like the easy button!
On second thought... don't tell Nick I'm considering cheating on him, but I'm going to call Monarch on Monday and see if they are able to machine the hub. As happy as I've been with A1, the shipping alone will probably add about $50-$75 to the whole deal and if I can find a local place that can do that, then I don't really have to have a spare on the shelf since I don't have to deal with international shipping in the event that I need another one.
I'm really perplexed as to what killed that hub, though. It was a relatively new Moog part, so in theory not complete crap. Does that side take more stress since it's the shorter axle? Maybe when the heat of the stuck caliper toasted the bearing, that failure cascaded down to the hub itself. Maybe I damaged it somehow when I pressed it in or out.
In reply to wae (Forum Supporter) :
The black steel bracket and the aluminum one between it and the block are from the Stratus. You have to shave down the aluminum a bit to clear the crank angle sensor, and it makes accessing the sensor and plug a real pain. If you have room you could try a Stratus rubber mount too, the dog bone is untested so far in this mounting arrangement.
The machine shop that I know doesn't do round things, just engines, but they sent me to the guy they use. He's not too far from me and thinks that it shouldn't be a problem to hog out a new hub for me. Next step is to order a new Timken hub assembly then make an appointment to take it over to Chuck and have him look at it and see what he can do.
No progress on the motor mount yet, though. I'm trying to mock up that Stratus mount in cardboard to see what that will look like. I also might be able to come up with a similar plate that bolts in but then comes down to the stock FMM.
And speaking of FMM, I bought a new one and put in the Prothane insert that I already had in the spares bin:
New hub and bearing arrived on Sunday at some point!
I need to go ahead and press the studs out - I'll use the longer ones from the Greenhouse hubs eventually, but it's probably easier for the guy to work on it without the studs in the way. At some point today, I'll get a minute to make an appointment with the machinist and see about taking this over to him and getting it carved up.
Well, crap.
I was finally able to get ahold of the machinist so I could drop the hub off. Now, I know when I talked to him on the phone I told him that it needed to be hogged out and the splines re-cut, but I guess I wasn't clear enough because he took one look and said that he was in no way equipped to be able to cut those splines. What we settled on, though, was that he's going to turn down the part of the hub that the bearing presses to, put a sleeve on it, and then turn it again to match the diameter of the new hub.
Hopefully that will work. What I wonder is if the bearing fails, heats up, and causes the hub to wear or if the hub is too soft and wears down causing the bearing to fail.
No word on the hub yet, but t since I wrecked my back the other day I decided to tackle a small project that didn't require any lifting or bending.
That's the bobble relocation bracket. Hint: it is not supposed to relocate the bobble to the firewall.
Between a hammer and the 20 ton press, I got it mostly flat enough.
I also chopped a sliver off of it where it was making contact with the hot side charge pipe. Banking on the mantra of a little grinding, a little paint turns me in to the welder I ain't I got this:
Yeah, it's not painted yet, but that's the next step.
If your having hub problems, look into using shadow knuckles. With a stronger, and bolt on hub. They also change the roll center for the better. You'll need to use larger axles, I'm not sure how that will work out with your set swap.
In reply to 79rex :
I've heard about doing that, but this hub thing is sort of a unique problem for me at this point as opposed to something that keeps happening.
No pictures yet, but I played with the front mount more yesterday and last night. There is just no way that I'm going to be able to fit anything in there with the existing bracket. Between that bracket and the hot side pipe, the car-side of the FMM has nowhere to go. But, if I make a new bracket that ties the 5 bolt holes together - three on the block and then the two that go through the bell housing - I will have space to build "fingers" that will come down to meet the FMM. That bracket will be at a slight angle compared to the ground (but 0 degrees offset from the block itself) so it should remain mostly in tension instead of being in shear all the time like the bottom-side torque strut that I keep breaking.
So far, I've got some bar stock cut down and the bolt holes drilled for the main bit that will bolt to the three holes in the block. It is much thinner than the aluminum bracket so this is a note to myself to remind me to check how deep those threads are so that I'm not bottoming the bolts out. This bracket will also be in the way of the crank position sensor and the oil pan bolts so if either of those ever need to be accessed step one will be to remove the motor mount.
79rex said:If your having hub problems
i feel bad for you, son
I got 99 problems but CV ain't one
( i am sorry )
Pete. (l33t FS) said:79rex said:If your having hub problems
i feel bad for you, son
I got 99 problems but CV ain't one
( i am sorry )
I LOLed!
Yay! The machinist is finished with my hub!
I won't be able to pick it up for a while, though, since we went and got tested for the Wuhan this morning and have put ourselves on 100% lockdown in the house. If the results come back negative (which we are 99.9999% certain they will), then we can go have an actually normal visit with my parents so they can see and interact with the grandkids. Not doing a damned thing to jeopardize that!
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