95 Thunderbird v8 Coupe bound for Lemons glory. Or not.

captainawesome said:

The eagle has landed! My buddy that kinda brokered the deal for me was worried Missouri would shut it's borders for non essential travel. So he loaded the car up Friday night and headed out early Saturday morning. The newer battery with the car was toast. Must have a dead cell or whatever batteries no longer work from. I'm not a scientist. Anyway, I stole the one out of my Montero to get it unloaded. Posts are in the wrong spot, but we were able to get them somewhat connected so we could pull it off the trailer. After figuring out the car won't start in anything but neutral we were off and running.

I love this car.

It sounds good. It looks cool. It's kinda fast?

Anyway, I spent a good hour just kinda looking over the work that's been done to it and seeing what we may need to go fetch from a junkyard. I also went through the pile of parts to see what we kinda spares we have or what could be sold off. There's quite a bit of stuff to look at and go over so I won't paste the 90 pics I snapped. Just the stuff we will address and some overall shots.

The seat brackets on the driver side have to weigh a ton. Way overbuilt, and due to lack of adjustment will need to be address. After the team gets a good look at things we will go over whether a new seat is in the future or if we make this work with the proper safety measures in place. I'm pretty sure I still have a circle track head bracket from a Kirkey. My buddy has more too I think that could maybe bolted on as a halo of sorts.

No wiper motor assembly or arms. I imagine we are going to need that for any possible race days, so that's on the pick n pull list.

Air intake is a jumbled mess. We may leave it. If we find a stock one for cheap it will get swapped out. I was told by the PO that I should look into retaping the intake. He's funny.

Steering quickener is probably too fast for track work. Even so I think the only part of the collapsible column was where the quickener now resides. I need to do some research on that though.

The fuel gauge is pegged out. From a quick google search there's a chip on the back of the cluster that can fall out or be loose enough to cause the symptoms we are having. I'm hoping that's all it really is. Temp guage and all others appear to be working properly.

The e-fan is on when the ignition is turned on. Always. Not sure I like that at all, so we will probably get a relay set back up on a temp switch. The ignition switch itself is an interesting setup. Gotta figure out where and how we wanna setup the kill switch.

The front core support is mostly cut out and some bumper support brackets were fashioned up to kind hold things in place. It's functional but the lower part of the bumper needs support. Really the whole bumper needs a quick release setup because getting it on and off the trailer without scraping is tough even with long ramps. We will worry about that later though.

Looks all the wiring is still there for lights.

There's a set of spare wheels. They are hideous. The tires on both sets are basically round and good for moving the car around. That's it.

Main drive belt is cracked pretty bad. Gonna swap that out immediately.

I forgot about the back spoiler. It's been a while since I've seen the car, so I was planning to fab one up cheap. Looks like it's already done for me, and looks cooler than what I would have came up with.

In conclusion I think we got a great starter car. We mostly just need to focus on maintenance upkeep and getting safety equipment set up. The team should be all here today to go over everything and set our plan of attack.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

I'm confused about the ignition question.  Kill switch is not the ignition.  Kill switch should be before anything else in the battery / alternator circuit.

That is a kill switch in the picture.  The question is if it is wired correctly.  

I would want an actual switch for the ignition and only rely on the kill switch to actually isolate the battery.  Don't use it to shut the car off.  They wear out if you do that (as well as all sorts of weird things with the alternator).

captainawesome said:

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

As in ZERO fan? I definitely want to work our way into some proper air ducting that forces it through the rad, but with it possibly doing autocross as well I'm not ready to kick it to the curb. What I do want to setup is a proper temp switch so it's only on when the system needs it.

Yes, zero fan.  Sitting in line at autocross would be not good!  If you still plan to drive it around at slow speeds, keep the fan.

Still, duct the crap out of it

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

This "kill switch" is wired as the ignition switch. We plan to wire in a proper kill switch with separate ignition circuit. I also assume the position of the current switch wouldn't be close enough in reach to pass tech for safety crews. It will be all done to the letter once the cage is in place with proper seat position figured out.

Not sure what you mean about converting the corner lights from turn signals to brake lights--they should already do both.

The trunk-mounted LEDs (absent on your car) are just taillights. They're not brake lights.

In reply to Will :

Thanks for pointing that out. I was thinking the second filament was for running light and not brake? I guess it can be turn/brake and running light?

I'll disagree with Rob on the fan.  With the slow traffic of some extended yellow flags, or the sudden airflow stop of a red flag, or the long slow parade into the paddock when the days ends I want a fan.  I was driving a car with a broken fan and had to shut the car off every stop in those situations and it still got pretty hot, and a different car that was getting quite warm in traffic when the fan was too small.  
 

I agree on the ducting though, both in and out of the radiator.  

2021 late summer/fall is slated to be our first Lemons race at Hearland in Topeka Kansas. That's going to be a lot of time for prep, so we can actually get seat time beforehand. For now we want to do some track days at Hallett and a handful of autocross meets if they don't get canceled. So operation "seat time" is upon us. Other than lights and a proper harness, we are headed down the dreaded road of tire selection. Originally we planned to just get a set of RS4s since they currently are at a damn good price in 255 40 17. Total ends up a smidge under $700 after taxes and all that jazz. I've also seen mention that some other Lemons guys like the Riken Raptors which will be around $260 less. Hard to argue with a bargain like that. As a team we have decided to get the Rikens and have fun with the car. When it's time to turn laps at an actual race we will get the good stuff and have what's left of the Rikens for backups.

Wiper switch stalk came in.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

I expected brake lights and turn signals to function once that was plugged in. Brake light switch is bad, so I made a quick jumper wire. Only the driver side signal/brake light was lit up, and nothing else. Alright, I'm halfway there!

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

After looking at the wire colors for the passenger side, I confirmed one of the wires that were chewed up under the dash matched. Took some effort to make a quick splice, but got one. And we are in business.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr3

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Tomorrow I pick up a new brake switch, and the front corner lights should be here. Hoping to have functional brakes and turn signals for a test ride down the road. Yeehaw!!!!

Back from the dead. Forgot to update our last weekend of work. One of the local teammates swung by to get some stuff knocked out for our maiden voyage down the interstate. He patched the wires under the dash area and swapped out the brake switch. I traced wires for the new signal harness for the driver side after I confirmed which wires were which. We decided to just zip tie the bulbs to the fenders for now and I would create some brackets for the housings later. Basically everything got zip tied in place. Turn signal/wiper stalk. Gauge cluster. All of the things.

So we headed out on our first real journey. Uncertainty of our fuel level forced us to pit at the local gas station. It was a couple gallons shy of FULL.

The tires are still pretty bad so there's some vibration probably related to that in the steering, but nothing serious.

All the way up until about 80mph the car pulls great. For whatever reason around 80 and above the fuel or spark must be cutting out. If i roll into the throttle gently it produces the same effect as stabbing it. As of right now we haven't looked into it much, but we are pretty stoked on how the car feels and drives.

After the teammate headed home I made some crappy brackets from some scrap sheet metal. Forgot to snap pics of those, but just imagine some bent up sheet metal with holes drilled in it for the time being. Since then it's been rolled out the gravel parking awaiting another day of work. Tonight I may finish the wiper install. Maybe. I really love this car though.

Oh, almost forgot, I am trying to talk the team into entering the car into the GRM Challenge. We are WAY under budget, so there's space for go faster shenanigans. Or just run it as is.

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

Back on this big old Bird as we are hoping to take it on a private track day in a couple months time.

I need some help though.

We are about to dip our toes into the 80mph cutout issue. I think it may be related to the factory top speed cutout, but since it's got a Jet Chip in it I would assume that deletes the limiter. The Jet part number is 79511 and I can't find anything that mentions it removes the speed limiter.

What makes me think it's the top speed limiter is the rear gears have been changed, the speedo reads considerably higher than the speed we are moving, and it seems to be MPH specific. I can load the gas pedal lightly and roll up to 80 where it begins to cut out. If I mash the pedal and get to 80 it cuts out the same way. At that speed it just acts like there's a misfire or fuel cut. Maybe both.

So is there a way to check if it's the limiter?

Is there a way to remove the limiter without getting another chip that may be pricey? The plan is to go into the track day cheap, and see if we are all ready to commit to the LeMons cage and safety requirements or just sell it and focus on our own stuff. A buddy has some cheap GForce R1s we are going to put on, some higher temp brake pads are planned, and hopefully whatever is required to fix the top speed issue.

In reply to captainawesome :

I took a quick look on the T-bird forums and the consensus there seems to be that the Jet chip isn't very good. I couldn't find anything definitive but it seems like it caused problems. The other thing I found is that the stock limiter is somewhere around 105 mph, so with the shorter gearing, it seems plausible to be hitting it at 80.

It's not cheap, but the SCT tuner is what people recommend for these cars, with a good tune from someone who knows these cars specifically (i.e. not a generic Mustang tune)

https://www.tccoa.com/threads/my-recommendation-for-an-mn12-tuner.189253/

In reply to slowbird :

Unfortunately I really need the least expensive option possible to just remove the limiter. If I can get a used SCT tuner and somewhat inexpensive tune that's plausible, but trying to keep it LeMons legal.

Does SCT stuff work on OBD1 vehicles? 4.6 cars sold in CA in 94-95 are OBD2 (mostly--but they still take an actual chip that plugs into the ECM).

As mentioned in the thread above, Moates Quarter Horse tends to be the preferred tuning option for the Supercoupe crowd (all of which are OBD1.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's a cheap option for this.

Sounds like we just have to bite the bullet on this one. I believe this is OBDII but will confirm first.

So after a bit of debate between team members about the future of this big old bird, we have all decided to part ways with it so we can focus on our TT schedule next year. If anyone here is interested in buying the car, it is located in Garfield Arkansas. All spares go with it and currently priced at $1750. I think it would make a great GRM Challenge car or continue on with the dream of LeMons. Price is negotiable but be gentle. We never got around to messing with the speed sensor issue, so that would need to be addressed if needing to go above 80 mph.

captainawesome said:

So since the car isn't being purchased for $500 how does that work? Can I "sell" parts off the car to recoop like you would a GRM Challenge car?

Champ car doesn't worry about purchase price anymore. You get so many points for a given car at a given age.  Look at Thunderbird on the chart then go across to the year and that's how many points  you start with. Performance stuff costs points.  They don't care if it's new, used, or the bargain of a century. 
Sway bars cost so many points, aftermarket brakes are 15 points. A supercharger/ turbo charger is 100 points.  Etc. 

I won't bother looking up your car. I know my JaguarXJS starts out at 200 points 

add 200 points for the two super chargers and I'm still 100 points under  the 500 point limit where penalty laps are added. 

In reply to frenchyd :

How big is the fuel tank?

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

XJS is 24 gallons.