A century car of parts meshed together - '26 roadster build

This is mostly a place holder so when I say the roadster or Lincoln project is distracting me you'll know know its this.

I've bee thinking about this for some time now.  About 10 years ago I drug home a 1947 Lincoln flathead V12

Originally I was thinking wooden boat, but I don't live near water so that's kind of stupid.  The plan now is to buy a '26 ford roadster body mostly because they are pretty cheap and light which is important when the engine weighs 800lbs and puts out 125hp stock.

.....but the engine won't be stock of course.  I acquired some much lighter weight finned aluminum heads

It will have boost, I was thinking blower but today its turbo.  And I'm thinking modern V8 looking intake with wrapped runners,  central plenum, injectors moved to the inside to both conceal and get them pointed more in the right direction for this engine kind of like this:

Years ago I owner a speedster replica and had a vague plan to take siamese 2 frames like I designed for an FSEA can to make a super stiff and light mid-engine speedster. I even laid it out, modeled it and FEA'd it

....fast forward and reverse it and that is the ford plan.  The roadstster is a step in doorless thing with tubing running everywhere.  80lb max for the bare frame and it will have the 60s Maserati birdcage flavor.

Maybe an 80 944 transaxle in the rear....or maybe a newer 6 spd...or new paddles  unit  and kind of cover a century of progress in 1 car.  

That's the plan, I'll update as I add to the parts pile and things firm up

frenchyd said:

In reply to mke :

 where the badge bar and lower lights are is where the blower goes. I was thinking something like a 32 Ford grill shell would be in keeping with the 29  body and fenders.  Edsel Ford really made a beauty when he designed the 32.  
     If you can find a picture of the XKE frame  you'll see it's a lot less busy than your model.  The remarkable thing is the rear 1/2  is a Monique and the front frame just bolts onto the body. You could either put that type of frame into the the model A  body. And bolt them together or just set it on top of the frame.   I'll look and see if I've got  a picture of my XKE front frame.  

 

Visually I much prefer the 32-34 to the earlier stuff but the reality is those bodies start around $5k vs $1k for the 26 and the 26 is smaller/lower so it'll be fine.

The whole point of a space frame is to "be busy" .  Ever and every point should be supported in 3 dimensions.  Notice in the model there is not  opening that is not a triangle, that's the other rule.  That frame was estimates are... 56lb iirc and about the same stiffness as an 80s F1 car.   Almost all the tubing is 0.028" wall...very light.

The cheap body is not structural, it would need the firewall cutout  and be bolted to the space frame....its just a cover.

I will need to look at a bunch of pictures to pick a front grill ....26, 28, 32, 33?  Not sure but style wise 26 or 28 most likely.

Yes.  More please.

I hate none of this.  Please continue to post pictures of your unusual ideas.

I don't want to ruin your plan but if I had a 800lb V12 I would probably attempt to take a roadster body like you have and build a Mid Engined 1920s hypercar. 

nocones said:

and build a Mid Engined 1920s hypercar. 

God, imagine the swoops and curves of the lines on it.

I don't know what the heck's going on here...but I like it.

Do carry on.

I was just looking at turbocharged flathead V8 hotrods the other day, this is 1.5 times more awesome.

Not sure where the engine fits into that space frame, but it's gorgeous!

I love everything about this.

I also vote "Track T" grill.

In reply to nocones :

I just couldn't figure out how to make it come out right with the engine in back...the engine is about 3ft long and 20s bodies pretty small in back.....I would need a 4 door body I think?

The front axle is well in front of the engine that so technically is a front mid engine I thing.  Then use a transaxle, move the battery and fuel to the rear...I'd think 50/50 it certainly doable.....I'd think.....

In reply to Javelin :

I like it, I'd forgotten about those.  I was planning fenders and running boards  and what I'm talking about would sit about 6" lower than that with less ground clearance and no frame under the body since its a space frame not a ladder frame....making me question if the rear fenders I'm planning are even possible.  I nned to collect more part.....

You could reduce your engine weight some with fabricated steel headers and aluminum bracketry.

I always wondered if a cast iron block could be reduced in weight with some careful CNC work...take a little off here, a little off there...

I like the plan though!

Hmm...maybe a transverse V12 in the back with FWD hardware?

Mke, bro, you got these things goin on in your head and somehow you have the skill to pull it off and I don't know which to be more impressed with. 
 

Also, 800lbs and 125hp is pretty hilarious. I'd be tempted to leave it alone just to claim those numbers and make folks scratch their heads.  What's the displacement on that lump? 

Yes...this is so awesome! I'm definitely in for updates...

I remember seeing a photo of a mid engined 26 T drag car, driver sat with ears level with the stock dash, engine was under a hard tonneau over the interior. Works great as a single seater. Not so much as a 2 seat speedster.

Make the engine the main stressed member of the frame like a 60's F1 car? This is going to be so cool. This is me, egging you on.

78CobraII said:

Hmm...maybe a transverse V12 in the back with FWD hardware?

been there, done that 

barefootcyborg5000 said:

800lbs and 125hp is pretty hilarious. I'd be tempted to leave it alone just to claim those numbers and make folks scratch their heads.  What's the displacement on that lump? 

As it sits its 292ci so 125hp is pretty funny.  The ferrai is 332 so about 10% higher displacement, maybe 60% the weight..... and about 700% higher output.  Time marches on  

I was going to generate some renderings of what I was thinking of a Mid engined version of this but in doing research I found Aaron Beck has already done the work for me.  Is his design perfect..  no there are lots of small things I would do differently but it captures the general idea.  

http://aaronbeck.com/projects/f132lm

This version is pretty hot also..

http://aaronbeck.com/projects/f132-fv

In reply to mke :

292cid and 125hp. I mean, it's not THAT far from 350ci making 170hp. Looking at you, C3 corvette. 

In reply to nocones :

I truly love where you are headed on the subaru, so much so I was a little sad when I saw you decided to keep it a challenge car and not throw some more money at the details.  I think the concept just works really really well with the basic shaped of the 360.  I'm not feeling the same majic with the '32 body concept. I think it might be a bit better with something more like the "track T" grill but....I'd have to give that some thought as its a bit shift from where I was headed mentally on this.

In reply to mke :

When Do you think you might get it  ready for the challenge?  Now that the limit is off  it would be fun to meet and see what yours does. 
   I'm still going to try for a $2000 budget. But I won't bring receipts etc.  I'm working with a guy who wants to trade a used set of Dayton wire wheels for my 16 inch basket weave wheels  

if that happens I will be under the $2000  limit  

mke said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to mke :

 where the badge bar and lower lights are is where the blower goes. I was thinking something like a 32 Ford grill shell would be in keeping with the 29  body and fenders.  Edsel Ford really made a beauty when he designed the 32.  
     If you can find a picture of the XKE frame  you'll see it's a lot less busy than your model.  The remarkable thing is the rear 1/2  is a Monique and the front frame just bolts onto the body. You could either put that type of frame into the the model A  body. And bolt them together or just set it on top of the frame.   I'll look and see if I've got  a picture of my XKE front frame.  

 

 

Visually I much prefer the 32-34 to the earlier stuff but the reality is those bodies start around $5k vs $1k for the 26 and the 26 is smaller/lower so it'll be fine.

The whole point of a space frame is to "be busy" .  Ever and every point should be supported in 3 dimensions.  Notice in the model there is not  opening that is not a triangle, that's the other rule.  That frame was estimates are... 56lb iirc and about the same stiffness as an 80s F1 car.   Almost all the tubing is 0.028" wall...very light.

The cheap body is not structural, it would need the firewall cutout  and be bolted to the space frame....its just a cover.

I will need to look at a bunch of pictures to pick a front grill ....26, 28, 32, 33?  Not sure but style wise 26 or 28 most likely.

Mke 

  The reason that light a frame works on the XKE is because of the triangles you mention. But there are some major strength advantages in square tube that round tube can't replicate. 
plus the speed and ease of building square tube over round tube.  When I built the DeMar my first iteration was  large diameter ( 2") round  4130 tube 

    The square tube version barely took 1/3 as long  to build and weighed 1/2 as much while being slightly stiffer. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to mke :

When Do you think you might get it  ready for the challenge?  

Never, me and budgets don't play well together.  

I consider cars projects a hobby and can usually divert about $2k a year without TOO much trouble at home.  This is probably a $10k-$15k build if I'm being even semi-honest with myself so 5 years best case, assuming when the ferrari engine goes back in the car in a couple weeks it runs well enough that I can call it done.

I am thinking the engine plan is upfront but actual engine build will come at the end of the project meaning I can start looking for a body, trans and such so I can get on with the construction which eat more time than money and let it move along.

frenchyd said:

Mke 

  The reason that light a frame works on the XKE is because of the triangles you mention. But there are some major strength advantages in square tube that round tube can't replicate. 
plus the speed and ease of building square tube over round tube.  When I built the DeMar my first iteration was  large diameter ( 2") round  4130 tube 

    The square tube version barely took 1/3 as long  to build and weighed 1/2 as much while being slightly stiffer. 

There is no actual engineering truth in any of that 

Square tube can be much easier to fit up for sure, and is stiff in the 2 direction but has poor torsional stiffness compared to round. 

In a well done space frame the fame members are in nearly pure tension and compression.  For a tension load, shape is mostly irrelevant, cable, tube, I beam, doesn't matter as long as they all have the same cross sectional area then the result is the same.  In compression though the issue is buckling and unless there is something that tells you what direction it wants to go, you have to assume it to be random and then round is the best shape.  Then there are other concerns like a load can't be applied at a corner so it will impart bending loads in a known direction so the shape can be chosen to deal with it....or maybe side impact protection, which again will produce bending loads.

Just know, when I get to it, the frame will be dangerously light and the safety equipment like the roll hoop not legal to be called a roll hoop by any credible racing organization