In reply to JRH :
That's the goal for this one! More power, add some lightness, decent tires and hopefully a lot of fun!
In reply to JRH :
That's the goal for this one! More power, add some lightness, decent tires and hopefully a lot of fun!
Monday update:
Received some parts from eBay this weekend, and there appears to be something funky afoot. No surprise for a partially disassembled 20 year old Honda Civic. I got my climate control bezel & controls and expected plug and play, but no such plug and play was to be found. The part of the harness that is still in the car has 3 similar plugs of different colors, and the cluster has different size/color/style connectors. Some quick googling has me believing somebody went through the trouble of putting the updated controls from a 1999-2000 in at one point. More research is needed. I'll try and snap some pictures after work in case any of you are Honda geniuses.
I know you said it didn't have an engine harness but 96-98 are OBD2a and 99-00 are OBD2b, they do not pug up with each other without a jumper harness. The B20b will likely be OBD2b and will not work with an OBD1 ecu without a jumper harness, it also won't pass emissions inspection (if you have to worry about that). Furthermore, JDM ecu's don't usually work with US emissions tests either.
For the interior harness, the 99-00 EX/Si model is different than the earlier models, but may be beneficial for an emissions legal b series swap - rear O2 sensor plug on the body harness is located near the shifter, rather than near the block, since the cat was under the car, rather than on the manifold.
Honda-tech.com forums are really helpful and when using Google make up 90% of the hits. There are pretty decent wiring guides and swap guide there. My car was already swapped but I was curious as to what all was involved so spent way too much time researching it.
Good luck!
Also, thank for the S2k steering wheel tip, mine is looking a little worn, and one horn button is missing. Also, thanks for the Yonaka exhaust review, I have a Mugen header to a "cat", to a resonator, to a Magnaflo muffler, and the drone is really getting to me.
No emissions here in MN so I'm not concerned about that, and I received my jumper harness this weekend to make my obd2 car run an obd1 ECU. Seems easier from a tunability standpoint, and what I've read on Honda-Tech.com also tells me that the ECU I ordered should run my B20 pretty close to right on as it is, although I plan on running a wideband as well just to double check before I get too frisky with it.
Ideally it will get dyno tuned, but I'm hopeful that I can drive it around some on the stock ECU and get some basic details sorted before it gets flogged on the rollers.
How were you planning on tuning things once you reach that point? I'll do the ECU mods for a GRMer for free if you don't have the proper tools. Just cover shipping to 60089. I solder and desolder stuff at work all the time and have modded a handful of ECUs.
chrispy - you're welcome! Fingers crossed that the yonaka exhaust hasn't changed in the past 6 years.
Gunchsta said:In reply to dropstep :
Interesting, what was your complaint about how you sat?
You just sit down in too far for me, my friends didn't understand it but I tore my mcl and lcl a few years back and wear a knee brace so it made it akward. My zephyr and the ranger you sit up in. It's hard to describe.
In reply to clutchsmoke :
Oh man, that's super cool, thank you so much for the offer! I was anticipating doing some kind of chip tuning, I think there is a shop around here that can burn the chips if you have the socketed ECU. Which I don't presently, but it sounds like you may be able to help with that. GRM FTW.
In reply to dropstep :
That makes perfect sense, and kind of what I thought you were going to say. I like the low seated position but it's not for everybody.
For those following along - here's what I'm talking about with the climate controls. My plugs are pictured vs the back of the climate control unit (not my picture, stolen from eBay for representative purposes)
And the plugs (again not my picture) on the back of the 1997 hvac controls
The green plug on the right hand side of the above picture almost fits with the green connector in my harness, but my male connector [giggity] is just a hair (like 1/8") too wide to fit into the female connector on the climate controls. I also don't have the 6 prong brown/black connector anywhere that looks like it would be for the fan switch (pictured above lower left).
Here's another picture from eBay of the backside of the 99-00 climate controls, those plugs look like they would work with the harness in my second picture. Meaning perhaps the other harness is for the radio. My plan is to take a trip to the junkyard when time allows and investigate further in person. I would be surprised if somebody swapped out the heater controls, but the car also has the revised 99 front clip on it, so maybe somebody was desperately trying to make this thing 2 years newer than it actually was. Or, maybe I should double check the vin to see that it isn't actually a 99.
Tune in next time on... Honda Mysteries!
That seems like too much work to swap the wiring inside the dash. I'm starting to suspect you have a 99 civic with the 96-97 tail lights, but Honda people are strange and it could be possible they did go to that much trouble.
I may even have a socket for chipping the ECU. Let me check at work tomorrow.
That's a really good observation, I went back and you've got '99-00 headlights on there. I'd run that VIN.
Is the wiring for the ECU still there - passenger side under the glove box? The plugs are noticeably different between 96-98 (OBD2a) and 99-00 (OBD2b).
There was no engine harness when I got the car - I ordered an OBD2a harness for a 97' off eBay and it is now in place.
The good news of the day is my garage passed final inspection so I now have a separate panel out there, 50 amp service, a nice 17000btu heater, and a whole bunch more outlets. So work can really start on this thing.
Also, not sure how much stock anybody puts in the Honda-Tech vin decoder, but that came up with a 1997 Civic EX. The front clip is all cheap sorta-fit parts, and the core support has been changed. So somebody definitely took the trouble to change that. Or it was in an accident, though nothing on the frame horns looks twisted or mangled.
I agree that it seems like way too much fiddling around to swap out hvac wiring, but there's a write up on Honda-Tech about it, so apparently its popular enough that someone documented it. This car also had a B series in it previously, maybe somebody was desperately trying to make an EM1 clone for some unknown reason? Has holes for a spoiler too.
Stay tuned!
I do recall that the 98-00 HVAC controls were nicer than the 96-97 stuff. I guess that could be reason enough for someone?
I do have a socket, but it's just a normal 'stick the chip in and hope you don't need to remove it later' type. Since you'll need a chip anyway you may want to hit up xenocron tuning and get a chip or two plus a ZIF socket which will allow you to swap chips out easily. Once you've got that send it my way and I'll get your ECU set up.
In reply to clutchsmoke :
The articles I read cited the fact that you could put a double din head unit in the 98-00 stuff, and it was impossible with the 96-97. That is not something that matters to me, but I'm sure in the Honda modifying community at large the ability to have a double din head unit/touch screen matters.
And thanks a lot for the offer on the ECU - I'm a ways off for that one but definitely will look you up when it comes time.
GRM is a cool community.
Note to self (and others reading) :
When you get a relative shell of a car that you don't have a back stock of fasteners for, things get expensive. It's a Honda so fortunately so far nothing has been insane, but there are a lot of bolts, nuts, wiring harnesses, etcetera that I've had to purchase already that I took for granted in other project cars.
Gunchsta said:Note to self (and others reading) :
When you get a relative shell of a car that you don't have a back stock of fasteners for, things get expensive. It's a Honda so fortunately so far nothing has been insane, but there are a lot of bolts, nuts, wiring harnesses, etcetera that I've had to purchase already that I took for granted in other project cars.
My suggestion is to hit the junkyard for whatever is needed. Strip/raid everything you can and bag/label it as you go.
In reply to clutchsmoke :
I am planning on it, but the u-pull-it yards around here are pretty picked over. The last couple trips I didn't find much left on these cars. Plus, most cars in Minnesota disintegrate in 20 years haha.
And just to be clear I'm not specifically complaining, just pointing something out that I hadn't really thought about. At this point I've been able to order just about everything on eBay and save time rummaging through yards every weekend. I'm paying for the convenience and I know it.
I just figured I'd throw it out there. The downside of these cars being popular and reliable is that you really have to keep an eye on either the junkyard or grab a wreck and part it out. And since they're reliable they get really crusty around here. I'm in the Chicago suburbs so I know your pain. The civics and accords always get picked clean.
In reply to clutchsmoke :
Oh definitely, I would like to scavenge more of the stuff at the junkyard but I'm just not patient enough to make 4 or 5 trips trying to find an unmolested wiring harness for example. The thought of grabbing another one and scrapping it probably would have been the way to go in the first place, but again then I'd have some unsightly heap of E36 M3 sitting in my yard.
Either way - I firmly believe this is going to be a really fun car to bomb around in when it's done.
I don't have much knowledge to contribute, but remember, if it helps you, I have a 2000 model Civic EX in my driveway and the manual for it.
I can supply pics as needed from either.
In reply to Cousin_Eddie :
Thanks man! I recently looked through your thread again and found how to orientate the battery cable wiring on the fuse box, so you've already helped!
Just let me know what pics you need. I have an eye phone and a good unlimited photo hosting site.
^^^ Thanks Cousin_Eddie
Spent some time last night enjoying my garage- the new heater, additional lighting, and 50 amp vs. 15 amp shared power make a world of difference. Bring on winter!
I love my garage.
Anyway, some progress was made yesterday. Acquired a set of 15x6 Acura Integra GSR wheels, which were inexpensive and a good size and weight. Aesthetically there are more interesting wheels out there, but considering the only other wheels I possess are the two 14" steelies and two donut spares that are on the car, I'm super pumped on these. Condition is fair at best, but for $60 I'm stoked, plus they'll allow me to run decent tires and enjoy the car.
Beyond that I bought paint which is exciting because I've never painted anything other than from a spray can. I plan on painting the front clip and bumper covers - Hopefully yet this fall. It's so ugly with the black.
One of the things I thought needed addressing first on the car was the fact that the core support was barely attached. When someone decided to swap to the newer front end style they apparently bought all the parts, hung them on the car, and lost interest. So, I cleaned some paint off and set about welding it on.
removed, old welds ground down and frame rails being cleaned for new welds.
Icky. Old spot welds that hadn't been primed and had sat out in the elements. I filled this area back in and ground it down before putting the core support back on.
Core support attached to frame horns. I can't decide if I think I should fully weld this whole joint or just make sure I get a few good beads on either side. The core support is pretty flimsy, I can't imagine it serves much purpose aside from holding the front bits on.
And since I was there, front tie down/tow hooks cleaned & painted.
Picking the wife up from the airport today, but hopefully go play around some more this evening.
More to come!
Opinion: Those acura wheels are the most attractive factory wheel for integras/cicics, etc. I like them better than most aftermarket wheels, too. Nice score.
You seem to be moving right along.
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