Cruising the Riviera- 1998 Buick Riviera Challenge Build

In reply to Ashyukun:

I sent you a PM to arrange things for the plog and pulley tool.

If you're looking for a cheap, sketchy mod that can improve your drag times, check out the "cable mod". This was developed for the W-body, but probably could be used on the Riviera. I would not recommend this unless you have drag slicks/radials, as it hurt my times on all seasons.

On my Impala SS, I was able to put down a 13.921 @ 100 with just an intake, pulley, tune, and U-bend delete while on all seasons. The torque curve is great on these motors, making them way faster than you'd expect.

FooBag wrote: In reply to Ashyukun: I sent you a PM to arrange things for the plog and pulley tool. If you're looking for a cheap, sketchy mod that can improve your drag times, check out the "cable mod". This was developed for the W-body, but probably could be used on the Riviera. I would not recommend this unless you have drag slicks/radials, as it hurt my times on all seasons. On my Impala SS, I was able to put down a 13.921 @ 100 with just an intake, pulley, tune, and U-bend delete while on all seasons. The torque curve is great on these motors, making them way faster than you'd expect.

Emailed you back, thanks!

That mod definitely does look scary- but it also sounds a whole lot like something I've heard of people who still have functioning auto-leveling air shocks doing with their cars for drag runs. There's apparently a way to jumper-on the pump so it fills up the air shocks completely so they're WAY stiffer and thus keeps the rear from squatting as much under full power. Of course, it runs the risk of blowing out the shock from so much force while fully inflated. I'm not sure which mod is riskier, but it's a good, cheap (almost free) mod to keep in mind.

I'll (hopefully) be running on at least R-comp tires, it's doubtful I'll have the budget (or need, realistically...) to have dedicated drag tires as well.

Yeah, that cable mod... don't do that.

If you can find the air shocks, they still have real springs around them. for like $8 you can get a t fitting and hose kit with a Schroeder valve so you can fill them manually. That's what I did with My superbeater, 80 psi got me about 6 inches of lift and no squat.

Then you just let some of the air out for the auto-x.

The speed daddies are cheap, but they take some work if you want to run them full time. The flex section will blow out in about 6 months. (but they'll work for the challenge. They're designed for W-bodies but I've run them on both H and U bodies. the manifolds fit just fine, but you'll need to modify the downpipe.

Here's the setup on our $2015 challenge car (H-body)

If you run the headers, any headers, you'll need to swap to a W-body oil dipstick. I'm unsure which transmission mounts you have, but they will only clear the non-damped mounts. (on the left)

Here's the part number for the "direct fit" front strut tower bar.

gm part# 25653157

They're discontinued so... good luck. I think it's from an STS.

AClockworkGarage wrote: Here's the part number for the "direct fit" front strut tower bar. gm part# 25653157 They're discontinued so... good luck. I think it's from an STS.

Is it an aftermarket part, or did it actually come on the STS's? Because I'm going to be hitting up the salvage yards for a STS rear seat bar, so I can look out for the STB as well if it actually came ok the car.

It's a factory part. I'm still doing research to see if the GXP one will fit. The GXP bar curves further forward and doesn't interfere with the master cylinder.

In reply to AClockworkGarage:

Cool, I'll have to see what I can find. Unfortunately most of the yards don't list the trim level on their sites so it's difficult to tell if a Seville is and STS or not. On the up-side, one of the nearby lots is having a pull-a-thon in a week an a half, so if I can find all the parts I need off other cars and grab them all at the same time I can get everything for just $80.

Looking at the car yesterday, something occurred to me and I pulled the old Saturn S-series rear spoiler out of the rafters and did a test-fit on it:

Surprisingly, it actually looks pretty darn good. I may have to see if I can find one in a bit better condition- though I'll still be looking out for other ones that look good too. I also think an early-2000's Mustang rear spoiler would look good- it looked fantastic on the back of my RX-7 convertible.

In reply to Ashyukun:

It needs a 2G DSM wing.

petegossett wrote: In reply to Ashyukun: It needs a 2G DSM wing.

You mean one of these?

I'd have to check the sizing and see whether it would mount properly or not. Could be interesting... if I make it to the pull-a-thon I may grab a whole armful of wings and sell off the ones that I don't use.

That being up an interesting question that I think I need to ask in the rules questions thread...

In reply to Ashyukun:

That's a 3G - you need one of these:

FooBag wrote: If you're looking for a cheap, sketchy mod that can improve your drag times, check out the "cable mod".

Other good ideas along the same lines include reusable toilet paper and mint-flavored Draino.

So will that setup fit in the Deloreon under the blue tarp when it's done with Challenge duties?

84FSP wrote: So will that setup fit in the Deloreon under the blue tarp when it's done with Challenge duties?

Yes, no and maybe. (I like covering the bases )

The setup SHOULD fit into the DMC- and it's one of the possibilities for what I'll swap into it when I do the complete overhaul it has coming (that will be somewhat delayed by this project). One of the reasons for picking a L67-powered car was that I have another L67 out of the Park Avenue Ultra I owned last year sitting on an engine stand in the garage that was pulled with the intend of putting it into the DMC. The Riv is not only a Challenge car but also something of a driving test-bed to see what works well in improving the engine.

I won't be swapping the engine from the Riv into the DMC, I'll just be using what I learn from the Riv if I end up putting the L67 into the DMC- I'm still not wholly decided on doing that vs other options (see this thread).

I also won't be using all of the tricks that I pull on the Riv on the DMC if I do end up going with the L67- things like the water/meth injection wouldn't make sense on a car that is not going to be drag racing, etc. I'll probably just use things like a slightly smaller pulley, etc.- the base 240HP of the L67 is still a considerable improvement over the DMC's PRV's 150HP.

petegossett wrote: In reply to Ashyukun: That's a 3G - you need one of these:

There goes my lunch.

So, update after the weekend (effectively, not much going to happen the rest of today car-wise I imagine...).

I learned a few things I didn't know before.

First, the Riv's battery is located under the rear seat- so that's one nice piece of weight-balancing I don't have to do. Though there's not likely a huge amount of additional weight I'm going to be able to pull out of the front of the thing (AC system might help if I lose it)

Second, after some testing it SEEMS like the pump for the auto-leveling shocks is actually working- but one of the hoses that connected it all together was badly disintegrated. For now I'll try hooking it back up with fresh hose and see if it works. I did pick up the kit to fill the shocks manually so if the stock system doesn't work I can do that (if the shocks are good), but for driving around I'll just keep it stock (will likely use the manual for racing though, since I can dial it in where I want it).

Saturday morning I ran up to the salvage yard to scout out if they had the cars that they say they have that I wanted parts from in the Pull-a-thon in a week. The bad news is that they don't have the STS they say they do. They do however have a number of other things that would be useful- including a not-too-terribly picked apart SSEi that I can pull some nice things off of (half of which I'd re-sell though- it's kind of pimped out so has some nice aftermarket stuff). I'm about 95% sure I can get everything I want here for free in the end after sell-offs.

The good news is that HOPEFULLY the other lot near that one has an STS that I can pull a sway bar and STB from- I'll plan on heading over there after the madness at the Pull-a-thon.

I had hoped to get the car into driving condition over the weekend, but that didn't happen. Hopefully I'll have time after work tomorrow to get the radiator hoses replaced and everything else put back together so I can drive it. Will still need to take the Jeep up to the Pull-a-thon, but it will be nice to not have to drive it around town.

One frustrating thing- it's been over a week since I signed up for the rivperformance forums. The forum requires an administrator to approve your account before you can post anything- and I've never heard anything back and still can't sign on to the forums. I'm glad this forum is far more responsive!

Since it was actually a really nice day yesterday, I got into getting the coolant hoses changed on the Riv.

The good: the hoses are now off. It's quite clear where the coolant was leaking from on the lower hose.

The bad: I have a renewed hatred for GM engineers in how difficult they made it to get to the lower radiator hose attachment. A PO made it even worse because they apparently decided that it was too difficult to get to (or couldn't find the actual correct hose) so put what amounted to an extension on the radiator (short hose to a coupler, and then the rad hose onto the other side of the coupler) so there were THREE tension-type hose clamps that needed to be removed in an area that there's no room to maneuver in.

I need to do some cleaning up of the connections before I put everything back together- but I also want to clean and flush the coolant system, which presents a bit of a problem. The radiator flush needs to be in the system for a few hours worth of run time, but is usually run with pure water- and it's supposed to get back below freezing again for a few nights coming up. So I'm probably going to have to wait to button things up and put the cleaner in until after that.

In other news, I found a relatively inexpensive Shop Manual for the car on eBay and ordered it- I figure it will be nice for troubleshooting things since there is no Haynes/Chilton manual on the later-model Rivs (the one I have on the Park Avenue somewhat covers things, like most of the engine).

Ashyukun wrote: One frustrating thing- it's been over a week since I signed up for the rivperformance forums. The forum requires an administrator to approve your account before you can post anything- and I've never heard anything back and still can't sign on to the forums. I'm glad this forum is far more responsive!

Head on over to the Bonneville club

Should be quicker to join and have plenty of tips to help you out. Users JRS3800 and WhiteArrow3800 are both awesome dudes and are relatively close to you. Tell 'em Marik sent ya.

AClockworkGarage wrote: Head on over to the Bonneville club Should be quicker to join and have plenty of tips to help you out. Users JRS3800 and WhiteArrow3800 are both awesome dudes and are relatively close to you. Tell 'em Marik sent ya.

Thanks, I've registered there as well. I figure having more input and advice never hurts!

With another somewhat unseasonably nice afternoon yesterday I headed out and got some more work done on the Riv.

First things I tackled were to be able to get the rear of the car back on the ground again- I was thinking that I would push the car out of the garage into the driveway where it would be easier to use the garden hose to flush out the cooling system. I found some of the right size hose to replace the rotted and broken hose on the stock auto-leveling air compressor for the rear air shock and got it re-installed, and pressed out the snapped wheel lug and installed the new one. With that done, the rear of the car is now safely on the ground.

Next I headed up front to see what I could do with the cooling system. One thing that I was really curious about was the AC system though- so I did some investigating and found that as I had somewhat expected there was no refrigerant in the system (the seller had said they thought there was, but I had only half expected them to be right). Since I'm not going to take the time to recharge it and get it working again and pulling it would save me 20+ lbs at the front of the car, I decided I'd just lose the system entirely. The condenser is now pulled out- the rest of the hardware is a bit harder to get out and will require a bit of disassembly of things. I've got delete pulley on order from Amazon so I can pull the compressor.

Finally, I set about pulling the airbox and the coolant reservoir. The airbox because I plan on fabricating a CAI/FAI anyway and it had to come out to get to one of the bolts for the reservoir. The airbox wasn't a problem though it was amusing seeing all the weird things they do to try and keep the noise down. The reservoir came out easily enough- but it's what was inside it that has me a bit worried.

There was a LOT of oil sludge/residue in the reservoir. When I drained the coolant from the radiator it was pretty clean, but the coolant in the reservoir was pretty oily. This makes me a bit wary now of the engine itself- but it's kind of odd that it would only be in the reservoir. I suppose someone could have drained and replaced the coolant in the engine/rad so it looked clean (it did have universal coolant and not Dexcool), but you'd THINK if someone was trying to hide a problem that cleaning the reservoir would be something they'd do as well.

I'll probably be pulling at least the LIM out so I can replace the intake gaskets that have a habit of failing- if there's a problem hopefully it's just with them and not the head/head gaskets. Replacement heads & gaskets may only be about $400 for a pair of them, but it's not something I currently have in my budget and obviously takes away from what I can do to improve power/handling...

Coolant itself is Pretty Oily and deposits will Blackin with age, Do Pressure test on the coolent system then or first Do a compression test on the Cylinders

I did a Dex dump and swap to nice green universal coolant on my Intrigue when the car had maybe 40,000 miles on it. It was still producing a slight amount of sludge for years afterward. I don't think I'd sign off on the thing just yet; GTXVette's suggestions seem smart.

definitely do a pressure test. Those LIM gaskets that you are planning to replace can also be a source of coolant leak and/or oil mixing. I wouldn't get too worried yet!

Dexcool is not friendly, unless you plan on keeping it. Thouroughly drain and flush cooling system, and expansion tank. As stated above replace intake gaskets. 3800's are noted for this. Had to do my old 89 Lesabre and 97 grand prix. Grand prix hydro locked on me, tried to get away with gaskets and oil changes.... So much for being lazy

I will be doing a whole lot of testing before I get too far into bumping up the power on it. For now though I mainly want to just get it streetable- I plan to use it as my daily for a bit so I can get rid of the Patriot, at which point I'll pick up another car (hopefully a convertible...) and be able to put this back into the garage for more serious work on it. It's then that I'll be pulling the top end apart and replacing the intake gaskets, and can then assess how the coolant and such looks.

For now I'm just going to clean out the coolant reservoir, pull the AC hardware and install the delete pulley, and get everything back together. Will have to wait until tomorrow though since it's supposed to get down into the high 20's tonight and I plan to put the coolant system cleaner in initially and it goes in with pretty much just water.

There's also the possibility that the in-rad transmission cooler is leaking- hopefully I'll get a bit of insight into whether the sludge was just residual from the reservoir not being cleaned out or if there's something else wrong when I flush the system after running the cleaner through it.