E30 Rally Car

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

If it makes you feel better, I've done the same thing not once, not twice, but three times in the last decade...............

Thanks.  It actually does make me feel better.  The aftermarket one feels a lot beefier and I installed it with what felt like the same torque that broke the original...

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

Regarding the temp gauge - literally pay no attention to that thing at all.

Well, rats.  The time to do that would've been while I had the intake off and easy access to that sender.  Is there another easy place to add a sender?  There's that port on the radiator, but that doesn't tell you the temp where it matters.

 I initially planned to do oil temperature, but started to wonder if there was much point on a normally-aspirated water-cooled car.  If the water's the right temperature, the oil should be okay, right?

In reply to Berck :

Not at all.  Oil Temps can skyrocket even if you do have a cooler, and high oil temps and what kill bearings.

Dang, lots of work to be done. Do you have an event you'd like to attend, timeline? Or just getting it ready to go and decide from there?

In reply to tperkins :

I'm hoping to make it to Rally Colorado, July 23-24.  The Colorado Hill Climb association is doing their Temple Canyon Hill  Climb on May 21-22, and that'll probably be my first event.

Berck said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

Regarding the temp gauge - literally pay no attention to that thing at all.

Well, rats.  The time to do that would've been while I had the intake off and easy access to that sender.  Is there another easy place to add a sender?  There's that port on the radiator, but that doesn't tell you the temp where it matters.

 I initially planned to do oil temperature, but started to wonder if there was much point on a normally-aspirated water-cooled car.  If the water's the right temperature, the oil should be okay, right?

you should be able to get to the sender with the IM there. It's a hassle, but use a crow-foot or some u-joints on your ratchet extension (after unplugging it) and it's doable. Or find someone with small hands and skinny forearms lol. 

I can't think of another good temp point. The radiator is where my fan sender/relay are hooked up though. 

I just ordered $132 of stickers.  Maybe I can't actually afford this racing thing.

Okay, time for some tire/wheel questions.  First up, wheels:

The car came with 5 Compomotive 15x6 rally wheels with some old gravel tires mounted.  I'm assuming that 5 wheels is probably cutting it too close for a whole event.  I assume I need at least 6 mounted tires, or can I get by with 5?  Should I try to buy just one more, or a lot more?  What's the thing to do for E30 rally wheels these days?  There doesn't seem be a good collection of disposable 15" OEM wheels.  Euroweaves are expensive.  I'm not even finding a good selection of fancy rally wheels in this size/bolt-pattern.  It looks like Braid will make them to order for $350+, but geeze.  I do have very long lugs installed and a set of spacers, so I can get around offset requirements.  My spacers do have the OEM hubcentric ring, though presumably I can find a set of flat ones so I can ignore the hubcentric issues?

Next, tires.  I'm not looking to be competitive to start.  I just want to survive and have fun, so there's no point in buying something expensive like Hoosier to start. These Accelera RA162 are the right price, but a pretty questionable size for my use. I assume 205/65s are a lot wider than optimum for an M42-powered E30.  It does look like I should be able to mount them on my 15x6 wheels and if the only penalty is that I'm slow, is it a terrible idea?

The better choice is probably these: MRF ZDM3.  Available in in 175/70 which is the size the PO was running.  The only other choice I've found readily available is the Federals, available in 185/65 for roughtly the same price.  Downside is federals are only available in soft compounds right now, and it seems like Mediums might be a better choice for a non-competitive beginner.

Advice sought!  Thanks!

I think e30 people like MINI wheels now for OEM stuff.

I've run the MRFs before and they're decent, I was very happy for the price.  Josh runs the Federals and likes those too- I'd run the skinniest smallest option in either one on your car.  If there are any rally people local to you, you could ask them what they do with their used tires and try to buy those.

I usually bring 6 gravel tires at a minimum, more if I have snows since they're easier to damage.

EDIT:  Looks like Maxxis is selling Victra R19s pretty cheap, I had those in hard compound on the Merkur and they didn't have amazing grip but they wore like iron.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Thanks!  So even at the amazing price of $115 (and free shipping on my first set), you think the Accelera 205s are a bad idea being that wide?

It does look like MINI wheels are a good option, but I'm not seeing many of the 15" ones available on craigslist or ebay, but I'll keep an eye out.

In reply to Berck :

At $115 I'd bump it up $15 more and grab some 195 Maxxis instead- I don't know anybody who runs the Acceleras and the fact that it's a right side pattern with no matching left is very weird.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

EDIT:  Looks like Maxxis is selling Victra R19s pretty cheap, I had those in hard compound on the Merkur and they didn't have amazing grip but they wore like iron.

Oh!  Sadly, there are only Right sides in the 185s available.  But there's both sides in hard and soft available in 195/65, which still seems pretty wide?

I'm still trying to dig up a cheap narrow option, 195 is still wider than I'd prefer on that car but at least not as crazy as 205.

Looks like with current promotions on both, a set of 6 Federals would be $1062 shipped to me and the Maxxis would be $887.  Definitely leaning toward the Maxxis.  Now to find at least one 15x6 wheel...

Berck said:

I just ordered $132 of stickers.  Maybe I can't actually afford this racing thing.

I feel like damn near every BMW rally car running in the US uses at least two of those numbers, so you're in the right range :). 

I have 424, Downey is 142, Yuvali is 234, Noyes is 32, Cessna is 724, Cooper is 723, Kelsey has 823....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I think e30 people like MINI wheels now for OEM stuff.

I've run the MRFs before and they're decent, I was very happy for the price.  Josh runs the Federals and likes those too- I'd run the skinniest smallest option in either one on your car.  If there are any rally people local to you, you could ask them what they do with their used tires and try to buy those.

I usually bring 6 gravel tires at a minimum, more if I have snows since they're easier to damage.

EDIT:  Looks like Maxxis is selling Victra R19s pretty cheap, I had those in hard compound on the Merkur and they didn't have amazing grip but they wore like iron.

Yeah, all of us are running stock Mini 15" wheels now. Cheap, available in a few different designs, right bolt pattern, and stronger than e30 wheels. YOu will need a 20mm spacer - buy one that fits the mini wheel and then have 1mm milled from the inner half of the bore to fit the e30 hub (which is 1mm bigger than mini), and it's a perfect fit. You'll need longer wheel studs, of course. At this point myself, Brolin, Downey, and a few others are running them. The phone dial ones look the best :)

Euroweaves are VERY expensive and VERY hard to find (I know, I have a set for street use). Also not particularly strong.

I've had a couple sets of Federals and had no problems. They are tough and don't wear fast. I have three full rallies on one set and it's still at like 70% (medium compound). Not sure how they are on grip vs. the $$ tires - I suspect they have less. I am going to grab a set of MRFs this year just to see if they're better/worse since they're similar in price. I am considering grabbing he acceleras in the 205 because they're dirt cheap, but I'll only use them for rallycross since our local venue is hardpack and more tread is more grip. Plus I have an M50 to turn bigger/heavier tires. 

Edit: didn't realize the Victras were so cheap. I may get a set of those instead. Federals and MRFs are around $200 each shipped. The Maxxis are only $15 each shpping so that makes them much cheaper. I think I'm in on those :) I get medium or hard because I'm cheap and I want them to last (and NEFR this year has LOOOOONG transits that will wear softs down faster). Softs obviously have more grip, especially for rallies with more dirt/soft stuff than rocks. 

I've never had issues with flats or debeads but I always have a full second set with me at stage rallies (the worn set I use for rallycross). 

I like 185 or 195 width. though. The 205s are actually a LOT wider than the 195s (definitely more than 10mm) and heavier. That's the size that turbo Subarus use and other heavy/high-power cars.  No need for that much meat on an M42 car. Thinner ones will dig better. I currently have 195/65/15 Federals but would grab 185/70s if I can find them. Height is what you want, not width. 

Maxxis too good to pass up. I actually just grabbed some soft compound. For this price, figure I'll see if the extra grip is worth the extra wear, since I still have a 75% set of Federals that are really hard.

Awesome that I grabbed an appropriate number.  My Vee is 55, so I thought about 355, but 342 felt right.

You guys have me sold on the Maxxis, I went ahead and ordered 6 of the hard.  I figure I'm not going to be all that fast, so I might as well get them to last awhile.

The phone dial MINI wheels with a bored spacer makes sense. I'll keep an eye out for them. I've already got super long studs.  The trouble is that I have 5 awesome rally wheels with 20mm offset that don't require any spacers.  How absurd is going to be to carry a spare mini wheel that requires an adapter?  Maybe no big deal?

Berck said:

Awesome that I grabbed an appropriate number.  My Vee is 55, so I thought about 355, but 342 felt right.

You guys have me sold on the Maxxis, I went ahead and ordered 6 of the hard.  I figure I'm not going to be all that fast, so I might as well get them to last awhile.

The phone dial MINI wheels with a bored spacer makes sense. I'll keep an eye out for them. I've already got super long studs.  The trouble is that I have 5 awesome rally wheels with 20mm offset that don't require any spacers.  How absurd is going to be to carry a spare mini wheel that requires an adapter?  Maybe no big deal?

Just put a piece of tape on it that says "don't forget spacer" for when you have to change it in a rush on the stage lol

I'm guessing to get a deal on the MINI wheels I need to shop local on craigslist.  Not finding a bunch of them right now.  They're readily available on eBay for $110 shipped per wheel, which is hardly a great deal for well-used wheels in rough shape.  A lot cheaper than Braids at $350/wheel, but I'm guessing the Braids will probably outlast the car.

I did stumble across these. Way too nice for what I'm going to do to them, but they're the right size, right offset, and even the right center bore.  The big question for me is--are they going to bend on the first rock I hit?  At 13.7lbs, they sound awfully light for rally use.

The car also came with some 15" wheels with street tires that require spacers, but do have the right center bore.  They're also too wide, at 15x7.  Okay for 195s, but if I ever do find some 175/70s, they won't work for that.  But maybe I should just use one of them for a spare for now.

Berck said:

I'm guessing to get a deal on the MINI wheels I need to shop local on craigslist.  Not finding a bunch of them right now.  They're readily available on eBay for $110 shipped per wheel, which is hardly a great deal for well-used wheels in rough shape.  A lot cheaper than Braids at $350/wheel, but I'm guessing the Braids will probably outlast the car.

I did stumble across these. Way too nice for what I'm going to do to them, but they're the right size, right offset, and even the right center bore.  The big question for me is--are they going to bend on the first rock I hit?  At 13.7lbs, they sound awfully light for rally use.

The car also came with some 15" wheels with street tires that require spacers, but do have the right center bore.  They're also too wide, at 15x7.  Okay for 195s, but if I ever do find some 175/70s, they won't work for that.  But maybe I should just use one of them for a spare for now.

Mine are all off marketplace. I can easily find the 5-spoke ones and the ones that look like Miata wheels for cheap. Harder to find the phone-dial ones and they tend to be more expensive. I've been collecting mine for 2+ years and have 5 total sets, but only two of the sets are the phone dials that I like.  There are a billion Minis around here though, they're like one of the main suburban commuter cars.........so plenty of take-offs.  Hell, I'm selling a set of the 5-spokes if you want to make a road trip :)

Another option is Honda/Acura wheels with 4-lug. Look for 2nd gen Integra wheels, they're basically the same fit as the mini wheels and have the same 56.1 centerbore and most have the same offset, so you can use them with the same spacers as the Minis.  Also cheap and plentiful at least on my local marketplace. I *hear* they are softer than the Mini wheels, but who knows if that's true or which Honda/Acura wheels that applies to. 

I like the Rotas, but I would pass on them for rally use. 

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

A lot of those four lug are 4x4.5 not 4x100, gotta be mindful.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

A lot of those four lug are 4x4.5 not 4x100, gotta be mindful.

Good point. The 4x100 were (IIRC) the Fit, 90-2005 Civic, Del Sol, and Integra up to 2003. NOT early Accord 4-lug or any non-Integra Acura. 

My fire suppression system finally arrived!  I went with a Stroud 10lb F-36 (halogen replacement) system.  Pricey at $800 shipped.  I could have gone cheaper with one of the foam systems, but I didn't want to for several reasons.

(1) The foam systems have a minimum temperature limit.  They can freeze, and I live in Colorado at 9,200ft.  The car lives outside when I'm not working on it, and for instance, it was -12F a few nights ago.  I don't want to have to deal with taking the bottle in and out of the car.

(2) Foam makes a mess.  I accidentally discharged the fire system in my Vee once.  It was an unfortunate $500 accident, but at least I didn't have a giant mess to clean up.  I'm not actually sure what happened--I'm not sure it was correctly installed.  I noticed that the fire handle looked like it was about 1/8 an inch out from where it should be.  With the pin in the bottle, I pushed the handle back in.  To make sure it was fine, I pulled the pin on the bottle.  It wasn't fine.

(3) Gas systems require fewer nozzles.  My 10lb system only has 3 nozzles.  Easier install.

I also could have legally gotten away with a 5lb system.  But I think that something the size of a rally car is probably more properly equipped with a 10lb system.

Thankfully, the fire bottle (barely!) fits behind a seat.  Unfortunately, Stroud sent the wrong bracket/clamps.  I'm pretty sure they sent me the bracket/clamps for a 5lb bottle, which means that they won't secure my 10lb bottle.  I assume this is an easy thing for them to make right, so I sent them an email.

So, I got the system about halfway installed.  This system requires bending and flaring 1/4" steel tubing, which does take a little time.  It also has 2 outputs from the bottle.  This works great for, say, my Formula Vee where you want one tube to go to the engine bay and another to go to the cockpit, but less good for a rally car where I'm just running both of them forward.

ARA rules say to install according to the instructions.  The instructions are vague.  Dragsters should install one nozzle on the driver, and one each over each exhaust header.  Circle track racers should "blanket the driver".  I'm going to to install one nozzle from the driver, one for the codriver, and one for the engine compartment.

Thus far I've managed the co-driver and engine compartment nozzles.

The fuel comes in on the intake side and that seemed the more likely place for a fire, so I put the nozzle on that side.  Presumably with a gas system the location isn't super critical.  A little annoyed that while they supplied steel lines, they went with aluminum fittings.  But I guess if the aluminum fittings have melted, I'm dead anyway.

On the wheel hunt.  Facebook marketplace only has 3 15" MINI wheels in the Denver area.  They are phone dials, but they're painted black, which isn't the right color for a rally car and look pretty rough.  $75/each is a more reasonable price than ebay, at least.  Of course, getting them requires driving 1.5 hours each way.  I'll see if they're available next time I drive to Denver.

I went ahead and bought a Stilo Trophy DES.  The yellow one, because it's cheaper.  I was initially just going to buy coms for my full face helmet, but I realized that even with the visor up, I'm never going to be able to keep my glasses from fogging with that thing in a closed car, and I'd just be much happier with an open faced helmet if I could wear one.  Annoyed that there are no FIA/SA2020 Stilo rally helmets, but whatever.

Good call on open face. It gets hot. I have the DES as well and the WRC comms are excellent, crisp, and clear and the Stilo ear cups are great in noisy cars. My only complaint on the Stilo is how big the shell is compared to other helmets. Didn't know there was a yellow one. I really wanted to get the "Offshore" model used for boat racing which is a cool orange color. But for some reason they cost like $200 more even though they're identical except the color. 

All my mini wheels are painted. Unlike e30 wheels, the phone dials are pretty easy to sand and paint.