Fabrication club with instruction

First post as I just joined. I'm looking at opening a fabrication "Maker-Space" in the Boston area and I'm looking for feedback from this community.
The shop will be extensive and include CAD software, welding gear, CNC and manual machining stations, WaterJet for cutting anything, sandblasting and powder-coating stations, woodworking etc.
Access granted for $125month membership dues.
Mandatory training or checkout prior to using the dangerous stuff (anything that's fun). Advanced training classes for those that want to make great stuff.
Who would Join.
A similar company is TedchShop.com Take a look and let me know what you think.
Thanks for your feedback. Rob

Sounds excellent but I live in Florida and too much $$$ for the amount I would use it.

One of the only problems is the lack of options for memberships. It'd be nice to see a day rate or hourly rate for machines with the option of up-ing to a month for the monthly rate minus the daily rate. It'd give the ability to try it out before dedicating a month to it.

I'm in the Boston area and I'd be very interested.

Enyar wrote: Sounds excellent but I live in Florida and too much $$$ for the amount I would use it.

There's an orlando makerspace
http://familab.org/blog/

and tampa has a makerfaire coming up http://tampabaymakerfaire.com/makerspace/

New York has 3rd Ward, which I believe just opened a new branch in Philly. You might reach out to them and try to get some pointers.

Your monthly access seems cheap, but that might be heavily influenced on location. If you're going to use the "maker" buzzword, your clientele are going to be hipsters, and your location needs to be sensitive to that - public transit, bicycles, maybe Zip car nearby for materials runs...

RWR wrote: First post as I just joined. I'm looking at opening a fabrication "Maker-Space"

Welcome aboard. That sounds like a good project.

RWR wrote: Access granted for $125month membership dues.

That may be too high of a price to get participation. The Orlando makerspace memberships are $50/month.
http://familab.org/blog/membership/

I love the idea of maker spaces, but there's no way I could justify $125 a month. A day or hourly rate per machine would make more sense for me. That much money invested in my own tools goes a long way, but I'm lucky enough to have my own maker space - my shop.

I think $125/month is too high of a barrier to entry. The local maker space that I know of charges $35/month and then charges additional for use of the expensive and/or consumables-using machines.

I agree with most here...you need a tiered pricing structure...$xx per month flat, then maybe fees for instruction classes, which must be taken prior to using specified higher complexity tools. Then hourly/daily rates per complex tool. Add on top of that materials rates for consumables, and then you start having a flexible enough pricing structure that people can feel comfortable mixing and matching services. That way, they will only have to spend what they need to in order to accomplish their goals, versus a rigid structure that may give the impression that they have no choice in the matter.

I understand that $125/mo is steep for a simpel "maker space" (ie the Orlando maker space at $50/mo and no equipment) but this is not a simpel shop=nice home work shop. The waterjet and other CNC equipment will total $300k. Add in all the CAD software and manual controlled equipment and you have a facility for serious projects, sharing ideas and knowledge.
We probably will have several classes of membership but the price point is necessary to cover cost of machinery. Let me put it another way, would you pay $125 month to have access to the Factory 5 facility and get advice from their folks?

I think the idea is good, but I think you are setting yourself up for failure with your desire to include expensive, specialized machinery.

I consider myself a pretty hardcore home fabricator/designer/engineer. My list of fabrication project is: utility trailer, shop press, recumbent tadpole bicycle, electric powered kid Jeep, aluminum bodied pedal car (my avatar), car lift, multi-function metal working machine and I am currently completing an off/on-road bike-powered buggy. And doing all those project, I've rarely needed CNC equipment. Never enough for me to justify spending 125$/month.

Also, did you consider the fact that projects that require that kind of equipment, are long term projects. So you need to include enough space so that people can store their half completed projects. In the case of a car, that can require a lot room.

Also, you will need to have someone constantly there to monitor the CNC equipment, because a user mistake can quickly render those non-functional. That's expensive.

I think you would be better to simplify your offering, with more simple equipment. You could always get a partnership with local CNC shops for cheaper rates for machine and CNC work.

i think youre going to need to view the tool purchase costs as sunk, at least temporarily. Fixating on breaking even on those in theshort term is going to make it hard to be priced "competitively" enough to attract members. Eventually, you want to turn profit, sure, but this is going to be a long term break point.

In business classes in college, I remember being told that many economists say a new business needs to have as much as 80% startup capital in cash as possible, supplementing the other 20 with loans/credit , plus enough cash to be able to cover operating expenses for 5 years. I think this is definitely one of those cases. You need to price yourself to break into the market, and cover your startup costs through volume and longevity.

RWR wrote: Let me put it another way, would you pay $125 month to have access to the Factory 5 facility and get advice from their folks?

For many folks, that might be a good option. Me, personally? No, I would not pay that money (or any money) to hang out with Factory 5. I would just fabricate the car from scratch in my own garage, and ask the other GRMers how to do it.

I agree with fanfoy. I've built some stuff, and I've seen some amazing stuff built by friends and relatives, all with not much more than hand tools. I've also worked in a shop with CNC and worked with waterjet. It's awesome equipment and there are some things that there are no other ways to do. BUT. For 99+% of the hardcore people out there, it's just not a necessity. Even the full time racers.

Maybe you should freelance work for small businesses to cover the equipment. No monthly feed, bring me the cad and spec and I'll hand you a part for $x. Then run the maker space as a fill in, feel good project.

4cylndrfury wrote: In business classes in college, I remember being told that many economists say a new business needs to have as much as 80% startup capital in cash as possible, supplementing the other 20 with loans/credit , plus enough cash to be able to cover operating expenses for 5 years.

RWR wrote: The waterjet and other CNC equipment will total $300k.

So the OP needs to have, in cash, at least $240K for start up, plus the money to operate a half decade without turning a profit.

I'm curious if the OP has been to a maker faire......I've only been to one, but it was guys casting aluminum trinkets from melted down soda cans, kids making liter bottle rockets, and people with 3-D printers making plastic christmas tree ornaments. There was a guy playing a xylophone he had built out of PVC, a guy playing a keyboard that was synchronized to a tesla coil, and lots of vendors, both of the etsy and the "your robot needs my arduino" variety. Then there were the parasite vendors (hire us to teach your kids how to play with robotic legos.....they're not smart enough to play on their own)

JoeyM wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: In business classes in college, I remember being told that many economists say a new business needs to have as much as 80% startup capital in cash as possible, supplementing the other 20 with loans/credit , plus enough cash to be able to cover operating expenses for 5 years.

RWR wrote: The waterjet and other CNC equipment will total $300k.

So the OP needs to have, in cash, at least $240K for start up, plus the money to operate a half decade without turning a profit.

Essentially, yes. There are variances in that equation obviously, depending on the business type, location, market climate and other factors. I cant remember the specifics...maybe he could get away with 50% startup cash, and 2.5 years of operating costs (also, remember, most of his operating costs will be real estate and utilities, employee payroll, and consumables. This may not really be as much total cash as it sounds like for that startup period). There would likely be other business people willing to invest cash, in exchange for a potion of ownership. Depending on the exposure he may be able to provide to tool mfrs, they may be willing to offer better pricing on their tools as well.

But yes, cash is really the only true safety net when it comes to diving off the self employed high dive platform...

I'm not disagreeing.....I'm trying to point out that the guys from makerfaires are not the clientel that can support that type of expensive venture.

my point exactly.

The Raleigh area Techshop just closed a few months ago. I was very excited when it opened, but the pricing was too high for me.

http://www.techshop.ws/ts_rdu.html

I'd say start with a few welders, a powder coat oven, a vinyl printer, some woodworking equipment , maybe a car lift or two and see where it goes from there.

ultraclyde wrote: my point exactly.

You also pointed out, correctly, that you've done more making of stuff than most people, and didn't need that equipment.

I'll add to that point, saying that some of our forum members have made amazing things. They've done it in their garages, using their own tools, and without the assistance of ANY makerspace. That's why a higher cost, higher end makerspace is really unnecessary.

I don't think you guys understand the costs of things around Boston...

This isn't Florida, or Ohio, or any other place with low cost of living. It's also a pretty affluent area.

People in this area pay $300 a month for a membership at a GYM.

I don't think the business needs ALL the bells and whistles planned. I also don't think the cost is out of line.

DaveEstey wrote: I don't think you guys understand the costs of things around Boston...

I'm sure you're right.....I've never been to that neck of the woods.

It's also a pretty affluent area. People in this area pay $300 a month for a membership at a GYM.

Yeah, you live in a different world than me. I do my metal shaping with an oak mallet, that I made myself. I bought the dowel I used for a handle, but the head was carved out of a branch from neighbor's tree trimming waste. (I still have the rest of the branch, so I can make more mallet heads if that one splits.) My shot bag is filled with sand, not shot....and none of that fancy playground sand.....I'm talking about the dirt from my flowerbed. Oh, and the bag is an old purse.

JoeyM wrote: Yeah, you live in a different world than me. I do my metal shaping with an oak mallet, that I made myself. I bought the dowel I used for a handle, but the head was carved out of a branch from neighbor's tree trimming waste. (I still have the rest of the branch, so I can make more mallet heads if that one splits.) My shot bag is filled with sand, not shot....and none of that fancy playground sand.....I'm talking about the dirt from my flowerbed. Oh, and the bag is an old purse.

Yep, Im with Joey...I have a thread floating around where I cast a MAF adapter out of aluminum to bolt a cone style aftermarket filter to my DD's intake. I use a melting furnace made of industrial grade refractory and ceramic fiber insulation. These were remnants being thrown away by a boiler installer. I have literally no money in it, aside from the gas I used picking the stuff up. Cost of living aside, zero = zero where ever you are.

The best part is, when you're surrounded by affluent people who don't how to fix anything you can get great deals on "broken" stuff.

It was a shock moving down here from rural Vermont, but I'm learning how to take advantage of it.