Modernizing my first vehicle - 1991 Audi 200 20v (there's another one??)

After some prodding and encouragement, it's time to start my project thread... another 1991 Audi 200 20v has entered the forum. 

This was the first vehicle I'd ever purchased for myself, back in 2000. Because of that, as other vehicles came and went, including a '92 Audi S4, a '95.5 Audi S6 Avant (now maintained by Jehannum, visible in the background with better wheels ) and an '01 Audi S8 with a 6 speed conversion (partially visible), a '20 Toyota Tacoma 6MT (I do wish this one was still around), and lastly a '22 Tesla Model Y I could just never part with this one.

Early mods were euro headlights which are a significant improvement over the early 90's DOT approved trash... and 5 spoke wheels from a first gen Audi S6 Allroad. I also put a roof rack on (not in pics) and paid a shop to replace the stereo.
 

While she looks great here (these are older shots), she's overdue for some work. Clear coat needs some work, could use some PDR, the headliner is now sagging. The power windows are slow and their tracks could use some grease. I've lost one of the Audi fender symbols. Additionally, the stock 2.2L pushing 217HP doesn't quite hit the way it did 24 years ago....

I had no real mechanical experience before this vehicle... but due to lack of local expertise I started frequenting various popular forums around this and other Audi platforms as they came and went in popularity/participation. VW Vortex, AW, QW, Motorgeek, The Project Pad, etc... I followed Nick (amdisthebest) and tried to learn as much as possible from the folks (034, Iroz, EFI Express) pushing the platform before me. As little things came up (alternator failure, A/C leak, PS leak, etc..) I tried to maintain/repair as much as possible. 

The goal had initially been to look toward a bolt-on Audi RS2 conversion. This was a time tested Porsche/Audi collaboration and a rather potent bolt-on upgrade for the time period on the stock bottom end. After acquiring the S6 Avant which came with the full RS2 conversion, it became my daily and the 200 sat for while. With those upgrades, the S6A was pushing 28psi and ~325HP for the 11 years I owned it. After a couple cross country moves (and finally landing in a space with a garage), and seeing what Jehannum did with his project, I was finally motivated to reassess and allow some scope creep. 

New plan stands as:
Four Ring Performance Built Motor by the legendary Jeff Gerner combined with a BorgWarner EFR 7163

Yes! Glad to see you've started a thread! We need more classic Audi around here. Looking forward to following along with your progress, and to seeing pics of that FRP built engine - I'll get over my jealousy eventually lol.

The 7163 really seems to be the perfect turbo for these cars based on the people I've talked to. I'd like to get mine there one day.  

Turbine said:

Yes! Glad to see you've started a thread! We need more classic Audi around here. Looking forward to following along with your progress, and to seeing pics of that FRP built engine - I'll get over my jealousy eventually lol.

The 7163 really seems to be the perfect turbo for these cars based on the people I've talked to. I'd like to get mine there one day.  

I'm genuinely excited to see how Steve's 7163 does as compared to the G25-660 on mine.

Hrmmm.... this BB software won't let me edit my place holder posts so I removed them.... alright, so keeping this thing going for the last ~25 yrs, I'd repaired some door hinge wiring, replaced an ignition switch, replaced the AC compressor, an alternator, a couple batteries, replaced light bulbs in the console, a couple window regulators, some vacuum lines, the timing belt twice and various engine sensors, the rear tail lights with the full red ones from the same era V8, a steering wheel conversion, some CV boots, the suspension bushings, shocks and springs and the stock clogged exhaust system with a 3" Strömung system.

Having done all of the above, I'd never actually done anything quite this big before, so my buddy Jehannum came over to assist in his special way.

Let's start with a proper tear down, for timeline purposes this was June 1st, 2024.

She's off the mounts.... 

And on the stand.... 

Beyond lucky she's been a southwestern car for her entire life, minimal rust to deal with, looking pretty solid

Head looks pretty clean for 154k miles....

Top of block, stock paper headgasket is looking crussssty and due for a proper MLS replacement: 

Bottom of block:

Pistons and crank out: 

Crank itself:

The pistons and rods are being replaced so I just tossed them in a box. I am also going to swap in some camshafts from the 7A engine (a common mod to smooth out turbo power delivery in these motors). Engine builder requires a clean block/head, so I took these down to be hot tanked.

If you ever want to have one helluva conversation starter, take an obscure old German inline 5 motor on down to the local American muscle big block machine shop... in the back of an electric vehicle. You can then watch the entire staff individually reboot when they're not sure what to talk about first. It was fun.  The good news is everything cleaned up very well, and was now ready to get to the builder.

This is the face of a man wondering if it will ever go back together and drive again under its own power....? I think we've all been here.

Motivational pic (from a temporary stint in NC) with the roof rack, v8 tail lights and Strömung exhaust on the car... 

Teaser pic (L to R, stock K24-7000, Intended Acceleration RS2 hybrid?, EFR 7163 with SX-E housing):

You want to confuse them more, show up to the same shop with a big ol' American V8 in the back of your German hot hatch and ask them about your mid-engine GTI.

Then you end up getting rules named after you, like the "you must make and take delivery of V8s in a truck from now on".

In reply to steve_3b :

Cool car and build thread.  You'll be able to edit your posts eventually but need to get to some number of posts (xx ?) first, it's a forum feature that helps to keep the spam bots from multiplying.  Welcome!

Seeing another old Audi thread makes me really want to get my 80q back on the road.  Good work, keep at it.

 This thing is cool. I can't say I've seen many silver ones. It does need some altitude adjustment though.

de80q said:

Seeing another old Audi thread makes me really want to get my 80q back on the road.  Good work, keep at it.

Do it! Yours is one of the cool ones and I took a bunch of info and inspiration from it for the 90q I had.

In reply to Jehannum :

I forgot you were running one of the new G series! I don't have much knowledge of anything that's come out since the EFR's, but judging by your dyno graphs, that thing's pretty sweet! Looking forward to hearing your impressions of each 

For timeline purposes, the disassembly and cleaning happened over about 4 weeks but I wasn't able to get the engine out to the builder until the end of July 2024. So we drove it out there. While the builder had it, some pictures of the build started coming in... but while waiting for those, I had to start cleaning up parts and reviewing the parts I'd hoarded over the years for the project. 

Everyone here has a collection of build inspiration photos, right...?

Here are two of mine (I've forgotten the attribution details, so props to whomever built/owns these vehicles).
My 3B motor has a different valve cover where a plastic piece covers the spark plug wires which goes back to a distributor. My plan will use 'red top' coils on top of the plug so I wanted to use the 7A style cover (top) as it calls back to some of the early raudier (see what i did there ) rally style Audis.

Stock 3B valve cover and plug wire cover for comparison: 

So I acquired a 7A style cover and had it milled to accept the red-tops. Due to his various projects over the years, Jehannum has a powder coating setup at his shop, so in addition to the valve cover, over the prior years we'd also refinished some 17z brake calipers and various engine bracketry and heat shielding. I think it all turned out pretty solid overall, and while it adds a little 'bling' I think it'll be pretty tasteful too. Mostly, I wanted to protect these surfaces from additional corrosion so they'll last another 30 years and maybe be a little easier to clean up in the future too. 

Overall I think it turned out pretty well. The R8 oil cap will obviously add +1HP. 

Some of the bracketry, water manifold, tubing pieces and heat shielding:

Imagining what it will look like as I am cleaning up the bay...

The stock brakes found on the 1991 Audi 200 20v are referred to as the UFO brake system. It was a unique rotor and caliper solution.

This was Audi's effort to fit a power powerful braking system underneath the stock 15" BBS basketweave wheel. The UFOs were prone to warping to due overheating. For the subsequent year 1992 Audi (Ur)S4, the performance sedan that replaced the 200 20v and was the first of the S line, Audi switched to using the more conventional G60 uprights. These were decent enough, and much easier to service. They also fit under the stock 15" wheels and were capable of stopping the heavier chassis S4 successor. This was a common mod/update to some of these vehicles and it is what mine came with. This allowed an approximately 9" rotor (I know, I know the tape wasn't well positioned here).

One of the earliest acquisitions toward the overall project was "More whoa before more go" so I refurb'd some 17zs and obtained adapter to fit them to these uprights. Quick comparison after base color:

Quick mockup with the correct ~11" rotor: 

and a retro style decal (hoping this survives, but we'll see)

The lines I have are a little longer than I would like, so I may swap them out before running them. Which lines did you source, Turbine?

but I was also able to confirm these fit under my wheels as well...

I'm considering a vacuum booster upgrade similar to what Turbine is doing, but according to Jehannum the 7A cams really reduce the vacuum so I may need to consider a pump or something as well and the current system works well enough.

iansane said:

 This thing is cool. I can't say I've seen many silver ones. It does need some altitude adjustment though.

Thanks! It's actually already on lower B+G springs, and Koni Sport shocks. I have considered coilovers but also want to use it as a winter vehicle too... so we'll see. 

There are still quite a few of the 'Platinum Grey' ones on the road.

This one is unique because according to Audi of America it is 1 of 2 with the Marine Blue velour cloth interior. All others were leather. 

In reply to steve_3b :

I'm running these from Apikol on mine. I don't have any good pictures showing the brake lines, but I'll try to grab one soon. 
 

If you're looking for another option for vac brakes, there's this kit from Ultra Performance Engineering that a few guys are running. This allows you to use the MC and booster setup from an R8 (which is surprisingly cheap). Here's one in an UrQ
 

He had to trim the adapter piece from the kit about 2" IIRC. Not sure if you'd have to do that on a large chassis though. There's a guy currently going this route on a T44, so we'll see. 
 

The kit I used fits great and works well, but if it fails, I'm stuck getting parts from Europe. This route would at least keep things in the states lol

Also, that blue cloth interior is beautiful! 

Yeah, I still think that 7A cams are a bit too rowdy for vacuum conversion.  During warm-up, my AAN only makes 12-13 in-Hg of vacuum.  When it's good and warm, it sticks around 15 in-Hg.  That's on a brand new motor.

Turn on the AC, it'll easily drop to 12 in-Hg when warm.

EFI keeps the idle relatively tame, but even though the advertised duration isn't terribly large (213° intake, 224° exhaust), the 5 cylinder doesn't make great vacuum.  If I were planning to run a conversion to vacuum-assist brakes, I'd add a vacuum pump, because no brake booster I've ever run does great under about 14 in-Hg.

In reply to Jehannum :

Yeah, 100%. That's what's keeping me on AAN cams for now at least. I vaguely remember a few people running a GM vacuum pump, although I'm not sure which one. Been a while since I looked into that.

Turbine said:

In reply to Jehannum :

Yeah, 100%. That's what's keeping me on AAN cams for now at least. I vaguely remember a few people running a GM vacuum pump, although I'm not sure which one. Been a while since I looked into that.

Having run an electric vacuum pump on a different car (a '67 GTO that also makes terrible vacuum), I 100% prefer the hydroboost setup, to the extent that I'm collecting parts to convert over to that.