Muffin - 1997 Jeep Wrangler(TJ)

Some days are like that. Can I get a close-up of the texturw? Maybe spray a piece of scrap with it and see how well it holds up to sevrre and abnormal abuse?

Well we are learning from your experience if it's any consolation. Sorry about the fail, but your next attempt will be smooth. Keep your chin up. I had one rocker panel in and out like four times. It looks great now!!

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Check your email, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself, I'm trying to stay a couple weeks ahead of the thread progress, but I sent you a picture.

So the next day I kind of cleaned things up, and went to work masking Muffin, again. It wasn’t as hard this time, since I already had the bed rails and door sills sufficiently covered in liner. When I had previously ordered another 50 count pack of ear plugs, I ordered 3 more rolls of masking tape too, so I had plenty. I had to go back and plug all the holes again, but I was able to reuse a lot of the ear plugs, and almost all of the nails and golf tees.

I was really impressed with how well the LMR worked. Cleaning up the inside of the texture gun was pretty easy. I neglected to turn the gun upside down and let any residual drain out, though by the time I quit spraying, the liner was starting to harden, so I don’t think much would have drained out anyway. I did kind of have to get mean with it to pull the hardened liner out of the body of the gun, but when it came free there was nothing left stuck in the gun.

Negative mold of Al’s Texture Gun

While waiting on the second Al’s kit to show up, I also rebuilt my filtration system, it was originally kind of a quick, one and done, thrown together contraption. Since I stunk up the house so first time around, SWMBO made it pretty clear, under no uncertain terms, I would not be spraying liner with the garage sealed up again. She didn’t get an argument from me though; I didn’t want to go to bed still smelling that stuff either.

dculberson wrote: I thought about that .. but didn't think of the bugs + lights add-on.

Here’s to you Dculberson, I taped up most of the tares in the original packing paper I used, and added some card board reinforcement in the larger holes, but the key to its success was sealing off the top of the garage to keep bugs out.

Garage "Paint Booth" Filtration System 2.0

I knew I wasn’t going to need another entire gallon of the stuff, but that was the smallest quantity I could find to order. As far as bed liner pricing goes, Al’s is on the more affordable end of the spectrum, but it isn’t exactly what I would call cheap, and I didn’t want to waste any more product. I sent Dana at Al’s yet another email asking about the shelf life of the product once opened, and he helped put my mind at ease.

Dana at Al’s Liner:You can store the remaining materials, if they can be kept in a temperature controlled area that is best but not necessary. You do want to keep the lids tightly fastened and out of direct sunlight. You should see minimum 6 months but I have had open containers on my shelf for well over a year.

The day that UPS tracking showed my new Al’s Liner kit had arrived, I stopped by Home Depot on the way home from work and picked up a Tyvek body suit and shoe covers, I wasn’t going to have a denatured alcohol sponge bath again if I could help it.

When my second Al’s Liner kit arrived, I sprayed the Adhesion Promoter in the areas that needed it, and I originally only mixed up ½ a gallon, lesson learned. I was much more confident this time around; I had my technique down pretty well, and was able to work much quicker to ensure I got all of the material where I wanted it before it hardened.

Once I was done I was pretty satisfied. I pulled the masking off right away, stepped back and admired my work, only to notice a couple spots in the corners that still didn’t get covered as well as I would have liked. E36 M3! Specifically the right rear corner, under the bed rail lip, the inner rocker panels on both sides of the Jeep, and the factory jack holder bracketry under the front passenger seat had shadowed some of that area from the liner while I was spraying.

So guess what I did when I got home from work the next day? I masked off the tub in those areas that had potential for over spray, and followed the directions to mix up only a quart of liner this time. I sprayed the areas that still needed it, but still had a little bit of liner left, so I went back over a few spots that I thought could use an extra layer, and made sure I sprayed as far up on the inner fire wall as I could until the hopper was empty. I removed the masking again, and FINALLY I had results that I was mostly pleased with.

I believe, even if I hadn’t wasted as much of the first kit as I did with spilling it, and it hardening in the gun on me, I would still have had to order another kit. I basically wasted 1 quart, and put a gallon and a half on Muffin, so I’ve got a quart left to do something with in the future. I’m not sure if a gallon and a half to do a Jeep tub is normal or not? All of the videos I watched and other forum post I read about it, seemed as though a 1 gallon kit was sufficient for most folks. Though my application was certainly NOT the norm, most folks don’t remove the roll cage, or coat the bed rails and door sills. So I was applying material behind where the B pillar would normally prevent it, I covered as far up on the fire wall as I could, I sprayed the inner bed side above the rear wheel wells, I covered the rear tailgate, and I covered the inner rockers on both sides. I probably put it on a little thick in a few spots too, but even if I was a little more conservative with the application, I don’t think I would have gotten satisfactory results, at least I wouldn’t be satisfied, with only 1 gallon of product.

I was finally happy with the bed liner, so I removed all the remaining masking from Muffin, cleaned up most of my mess, set my "bucket" seat in the floor, started her up and drover her outside.

It was time for the moment of truth.

Ambient temperature and Muffin's surface temperature was roughly the same. It was hotter outside for the "after" measurement than the "before" measurement.

I measured the same spot as before, same procedure as before. Muffin parked outside and left to idle for 30 minutes.

Cue sad trombone: womp womp womp womp waaaa

Max temp of 136.5° F before coating, 133° F after coating, and the HF thermometer has a margin of error of +/- 2% so in reality I could be seeing less than 1% lower temps than before coating.

Hence my previous statement about HNR:

Lee said: preliminary findings would have me leaning toward, don't bother with this step.

I know I have at least the recommended 31 mil in the area tested, actually I believe there's more than 31 mil of HNR in the area I have before and after temperature readings for.

It might make a difference in noise and vibration, but if there's any difference I won't know if it's from the HNR or simply the Liner.

Granted this has no air flow, this is a stationary temp with the engine at idle. Maybe it'll be better with the Jeep driving down the road and air blowing across it?

I still have about 1/4 of my HNR bucket left, I've considered putting some on as an undercoating. I also have quite a bit of FatMat (cheaper version of Dynomat) left from when I covered the trunk of my Volvo, I could attach to the underside of the tub, don't know how well it will hold up in an external application, but it's pretty dang sticky. I've also got a 1x2' sheet of Thrermo-Tec adhesive backed heat barrier. Just about anything I do at this point will have to be an external application.

However I do have a brand new set of Quadratec's molded to fit TJs front floor mats. I've considered sticking some FatMat to the bottom of them for an added heat barrier.

Any thoughts?

First I'd try just driving it and seeing if it feels different. Then I'd try the mats plain. Then insulating them. Then I'd look into a proper product designed to go on the underside of the tunnel. I would stop progressing down this list when the proper heat attenuation has been achieved.

flat tin sheet spaced 1/16th off of the shell under neath would do an amazing amount to help cut down the temps. (adds another air boundary layer).

Vorshlag used a gold foil type stick on thing for heat on their mustang. maybe see about that. (was not actually gold.) reflecting the heat first is the best choice... (so that the metal does not gain temp...)

Id add a heat shield on the bottom like stated above, maybe put the fat mat on the upper side of the heat shield. If that doesnt work, Id add some fatmat to the floors and then put in some carpet just in the passenger part, and make it so its easily removable for washing.

I think ozite makes some cheap auto carpeting.

I love the heat shield idea. What would you use to make it, as well as the spacers for best results?

Dusterbd13 wrote: I love the heat shield idea. What would you use to make it, as well as the spacers for best results?

See the heat shield in the picture? It is BMW heat shield. Found under the hoods and in the tunnels of most of them since at least the mid 90s. Great big sheets of it. Usually molded to shape but very easily bent into other shapes (though usually not on purpose). Range Rovers of the mid 2000s had huge pieces in the tunnel. Grab some and go nuts.

Looks like you can buy it here.

I imagine the dimpling is to provide a bit of air gap without standoffs. The factory pieces are bent outward from the body at the attaching points too.

Good ideas with the heat shields, but the last thing I need is something else to collect mud and gravel, the stock skid plate does enough of that on its own. I envision mud collecting between the tub and heat shield with any kind of air gap.

The Thermo-Tec stuff I have is similar to what, I think, Vorshlag used, except it's silver not gold.

I'm not going to put carpet back in, but the floor mats I have are fairly thick rubber, and molded to make a bowl, so they go up the fire wall, and trans tunnel a few inches. The hottest spot I used as a measuring point will be covered by the floor mats. I could, do something like I mentioned earlier, sticking some FatMat or something else to the back of the mats. Maybe some of that thin under hood insulation, or bubble wrap foil stuff?

That art deco looking, crinkled heat shield material would probably work great, but great googly moogly, are they ever proud of it. I don't see me spending that kind of money on a heat shield material. Muffin won't be needed to reenter the Earth's atmosphere from orbit anytime soon.

I don't know if using the leftover HNR as an undercoating under the front driver and passenger floors would be worth the effort? Right now I'm leaning toward not worth it.

Mazdaduce's idea of just throwing the floor mats in it as-is and seeing how it is to live with is probably what I'll do to start with. Past Lee managed to live with bare floors and cheap Walmart rubber mats for years, Present and Future Lee sure were hoping for better results though.

• Lee

bigdaddylee82 wrote: Good ideas with the heat shields, but the last thing I need is something else to collect mud and gravel, the stock skid plate does enough of that on its own. I envision mud collecting between the tub and heat shield with any kind of air gap.

Most modern cars have that crinkly looking stuff. It works, but great googly moogly are you right about dirt and mud getting caught behind it. For proof, find my old Mazda2 thread, look at the post-mud rallycross pictures.

If you use the dimpled stuff, you can probably get away with a big fat bead of sealant all the way around with a small gap at the lowest point, should keep the dirt out that way.

Apparently you cannot refer to a post directly. This is from the "Project LS2 S14" thread. The below is the gold paper I was refering to above.

That bmw dimpling would also work very well. Sealing the other edge would definately provide anti mud tendencies...

s14blane wrote: I just recently made the decision to keep the heat down as much as possible inside the cabin of the car, which mainly includes installing A/C. I believe I'll have to wait until after Power Tour (ironically when I'll be wanting/needing A/C the most). One of the products I'll be installing on the firewall and throughout the transmission tunnel to aide in keeping heat transfer from the engine bay to the cabin is called "Reflect-A-Gold" from Design Engineering Inc. Quoting from their site directly, it boasts these features: "Reflect-A-GOLD is a metalized polyamide polymer laminated glass cloth with a high temperature pressure sensitive adhesive for use in extreme temperature swing environments. It is lightweight and easy to apply and remove. Highly effective material for firewalls, fuel cells, engine covers, under hoods, engine compartment, bulk heads, seat bottoms – anything or area that needs protection from heat." I think it is effective to temperatures up to 375 degrees Fahrenheit, so it should be more than capable of keeping the extra heat from an additional exhaust pipe down in the cabin.

I thought I'd get nostalgic with today's "update." I don't have any digital pictures before I or any friends got our first digital cameras, maybe '02-'03ish, I do have a few old pics of Muffin though.

Really what that windshield needs is more stickers, and that hippy getting in the drivers door needs a hair cut.

True "rock gods"

Who really ties their disconnected anti-swaybar links up out of the way anyway?

Flexy, not very

Bunch of goobers on a little hill

I read all this and was thinking I need to look at jeeps....

Pretty jealous of your off roading adventures. Ive always wanted to go out and find some actual trails. Around here this is about the extent of what Ive seen.

Find a mud pit and then everyone tries to drive through it.

I love my Jeep, but don't think I could recommend Wranglers, as an only vehicle. Great second vehicle or toy though. I did the, only vehicle is a Jeep, thing for years, but gas was way cheaper back then, and I was young, dumb, and invincible, now I'm just dumb. I like my car for commuting, it rides smooth, gets great mpgs compared to the Jeep, I don't have to worry about it raining inside, and I don't have to yell to carry on a conversation above 50 mph.

What blows me away is the price these silly things are bringing on the used market. I've seen SE TJs similar to mine bring $7K. What kind of dolt is paying that kind of money for a 4 banger TJ? As tempting as that is, I don't think I could bring myself to put a for sale sign on Muffin.

I've not done any offroading since ~'09, I'm not sure I remember how. I aim to remedy that though. I went through a mudding phase when I was younger, then I went "rock crawling" with some friends and was hooked. Muffin will become a much more capable, dual sport, Jeep nothing extreme, still 100% streetable. I can totally see a dedicated, Southern style, rock bouncing, monster finding its way into my stable of vehicles though.

• Lee

Still dejected about the extra warm floor boards, I started reassembling Muffin.

I didn't get many pictures, but I disassembled a lot of the dash and removed a lot of Past Lee's questionable wiring. Past Lee had done a lot of wiring before he discovered the magic of relays, fuse blocks, terminal buses, or how to determine proper wire size. In his defense Past Lee did spring for high amp rated switches in lieu of relays.

In addition to questionable accessory wiring, in the dash there were the remains of an old Nokia hands free kit for an ancient brick phone; brain, speakers, microphone, as well as speaker wire and a pair of old Phoenix Gold tweeters, all removed.

Mice had been living in the glove box, you can imagine, it got removed, emptied, and sanitized. Yuck!

When I had the dash off, guess what I found? Yep, another dirt dobber nest.

The center console was particularly nasty when I got Muffin going again, I had it fairly clean, but since I had it out, I thought I'd try something.

Sure enough, it fits. I don't ever use the heat dry function, so it was safe on the bottom rack.

I mentioned earlier that I have quite a bit of FatMat leftover from another project. Since I had the shifters completely taped off while coating the tub, I thought it would be a good idea to add some insulation over them as well. I covered the entire underside of the center console, and was sure to cover the cup holder too. Maybe my drink will stay cool longer?

While I had the dash apart, I did the kick panels too, inner and outer.

May not make a difference, may cut down on some NVH, or could be total placebo, since I know it's there I'll notice a difference.

I didn't mention this earlier, but when I was welding up the holes in the tub, I had my fire extinguisher at the ready, and I regularly hosed down the underside of the tub with the water hose just to be safe.

I still managed to catch some stuff on fire. There was a small pile of debris, leaves and dirt that had collected under the driver seat, I never really thought about it, I was going to vacuum and clean thoroughly after I was done patching the holes anyway so I paid it little mind.

About half way through welding up holes I raised my hood and noticed flames out of the corner of my eye. It was no big deal I put it out quickly with just the garden hose I had at the ready.

Though I did some minor damage. The wiring harness for the seat belt reminder and parking brake light were a tad roasted. The loom melted, but the wires all seem to be intact, so I didn't think much about it.

I didn't think much of it. Then when I was cleaning up the mess I noticed this.

What the heck is that thing? Or maybe the better question should have been, what was that thing?

I had forgotten the key cover for the ignition switch cover had fallen under the seat when I removed the steering column cover to remove dirt dobber nests.

It's not that big of a deal, it's not like it prevents me from starting the Jeep, but I have to look at the ignition switch to stick the key in it versus blindly stabbing the key at it and the plastic thing guiding it into the hole. I'm having a heck of a time finding a replacement, it looks like it might not be available separate, I don't really want to have to buy a whole new ignition switch just to get that little plastic piece. It might help if I knew what it's actually called, but so far eBay searches for "ignition switch cover," "key bezel," etc. have turned up nada.

Sounds like a trip to the junkyard is in order!

Further progress...

We enticed some friends of ours over to our house with the promise of pizza and Moscow Mules. When they arrived I extorted their assistance with putting the roll cage back on the Jeep before I'd go get pizza , the ladies had already started in on the libations so I couldn't hold those over anyone.

I removed the roll cage by myself, but had gravity working with me instead of against me then. The cage isn't really all that heavy, but it is a bit cumbersome and SWMBO doesn't have the wingspan required to pick up either end by it's uprights. Regardless, if you're going to be removing or reinstalling a roll cage in a Jeep I highly recommend, another pair of hands.

Once the cage was in place I went and picked up the pizza, so I held up my end of the bargain.

I decided I wanted to do something about the original fabric on the roll cage padding, it was dirty and faded from the sun. Unfortunately just about everything attached to the roll cage is done so with those infernal tamper proof Torx bolts. I've lamented about Jeep's excessive use of these stupid fasteners a few times already in this thread, but usually just welded a "regular" nut or bolt to the offending tamper proof Torx bolt and removed it with a traditional socket. I was very reluctant do do that to the roll cage fasteners, with all of the meltable and flammable foam, nylon, and plastic I'd be welding directly above/next to, so I broke down and bought a 13 piece tamper proof Torx socket set before I disassembled the roll cage.

It's a Neiko brand, don't know anything about them, it was cheap, and I figured I'd get what I paid for, but so far it has been $16 well spent.

While stripping down the cage guess what I found? Yep, more dirt dobber nests.

I removed all of the padding, the spreader bars between the windshield and B pillars, and the sound bar.

Then I was left with a naked roll cage.

Exocage?

Dont know how you're going to finish it off, but judging by the rest of the thread, it'll look great and bevvery functional.

but the worst thing they did to it was killing the 4.0l in favor of the minivan 3.8l

Thats just as wrong now as it has been every time every other person has said it. The 3.8 makes effectively as much power everywhere as the 4.0, is smaller, lighter,EVEN MORE RELIABLE, less leaky, more efficient, etc etc etc. The ONLY reason people dont like the 3.8 in the jk is because the JK weighs 4500+ lbs, which coincidentally is 99% of whats wrong with the JK. Hook a 1000 lb trailer to a 4.0 TJ and go race a 3.8 JK for me.

The Pentastar is just a patch job. The problem is that the damn thing is gigantic and weighs too damn much. Adding a bunch of moving parts on a motor with a less than stellar reliability record is not anyone's preferred approach to Making A Better Jeep. The extra HP helps a lot, but the JK is still a fatass, and the 3.8 is still a better motor than a 4.0. Dont get me wrong. I like both. Ive owned more 4.0s than 3.8s (4 to 1). The 3.8 is just a better motor.

I also REALLY like the AMC 2.5.