Huh... I swore I updated this one too. Anywhoo.... due to this thread https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/grm-guessing-game-with-prizes/116900/page1/ we know that the car was tuned, puts down great torque numbers, decent AFR and made 163whp on that dyno that day.
Ordered my tires on Tuesday night, arrived on Friday and got them installed on the wheels Sat morning just in time for SUnday's first auto-x of the season. So, suspension was good, car was running right and new super sticky RE71R's that are Andy Hollis Approved. How did it go? IN a word: awesome.
So, something a couple of previous co-drivers had mentioned that I paid no heed to last season were A.) these tires have no grip, 2.) Why is the throttle so slow to respond? and iii) what's that weird "hop" on high grip left handers? The tires were a known issue. They were season and a half ovd RS3 V2's with 100-150 runs on them and close to 5k street miles. No surprise they were harder than a concrete block. New tires obviously fixed that. The 'stones like to talk and that is a nice change from the kooks.
The slow throttle I disregarded due to the driver being an Fmod guy. I just figured the 2-stroke smell had messed with his sense of direction and he was mistaking hte gas for the brake. I hear it's a common issue with Fmods. WEll, come to find out he was right. Well, at least partly. With the tune leaning out the engine, it really responds well. power comes on nice and linear and instead of my normal smash the gas and wait the wheel spin out I was able to nicely modulate wheel spin with my on/off switch. Wow... this is nice! The added 500 rpm also came in handy on Sunday's course. I could stretch out first gear to the point where it was time to ease off for the first hard righthander and then shift. That was perfect.
The last thing was something this car had done for as long as I could remember. When you turned in on a hard left hander with high grip, the car would literally feel like the front end would hop once then set. Never happened on right handers. This off season I installed new strut lower bolts. The other issue I was having was BOTH sides slipping with good grip and hard turns. No matter how much I tightened them they slipped losing close to 1-1.25* of camber usually on just one side. Once it slipped, the grip sucked and the day was over. Well, the install of the new bolts revealed why. The new bolts had the nice serrations that let them bite into the strut to get good purchase and were 1/8" shorter. The old bolts had not only stretched, but those serrations were completely gone. The more I thought about it, I understood why. Those nuts/bolts had been through 8 suspension swaps. Oh well... lesson learned.
NOw onto the fun stuff. Yesterday's fastest run:
https://www.facebook.com/bob.miller.1804109/videos/10207794165985142/
And the gratuitous mid corner pic:
Looks good!
When installing camber bolts I always take some sandpaper and rough up the knuckle and inside of the strut ears and wipe down with parts cleaner to make sure there's no residual dust/corrosion grit/etc. That can be a problem on Mazda 2s.
Out of curiosity, do you have your camber bolts maxed out? When possible I max them out, and pull the knuckle towards me so the bolts/knuckles/struts have all the slop taken out, I've never had one slip when doing it like that.
I was hoping to see you in Wilmington at some point but it looks like that won't happen this year for me, just can't do that many travel events with other stuff going on.
I slot them all the way in to get myself a starting -1.5 static camber before I even touch the upper plates. That allows me to DD at -1.5, then for events bring in the extra 2 in a minute or so. The way the plates are slotted, adding that 2* does not affect the toe so I can go from 1.5 to 3.5 in under 5 minutes, run the event, then 5 minutes to switch back and cut down on wear.
I don't use camber bolts, just taking advantage of the slots in the strut and using stock bolts. I think camber bolts, plus the slots plus the plates would give me -7*. As it is, I can max it out at -5.5 on the front end!
Good work on the new improvements. I hope you see you kicking some butt this year!
Btw, the FB video link didn't work for me.
No vids this weekend. Too damn hot. First local points event. Small, dusty asphalt lot. Blew my last 2 runs doing stupid things, had to stand on my 2nd. PAX's 3rd overall of 80.
New fave pic frpm this weekend:
Finished 12th on PAX, 3rd (of 4 :( ) in our "X" Class. Lost to the stupid fast FMod and the M3 in FStreet. The day before was our drag cross. Fun event, if I hadn't been chasing that "Low ET" trophy I would have won the last chance bracket but I ended up red-lighting to the winner.
So after a weekend at Wilmington, and throwing away my first ever National Tour trophy....(2nd to 4th on day 2) I think I'm going to fiddle with ride height a little.
The civic that ws stupid fast was so damn low... making my car look like a semi next to it. I know I have an inch and a half up front I can go down... the rear is what bothers me. I don't want to lose my preload so I think I'll fiddle with the rear shocks and springs to see how low I can go.
Gratuitous pic courtesy of Mr Perry Bennett:
Never seen this car pull a tire like that.
Also... considering stepping up the front spring rate. Sitting at ~550 front springs and thinking about a 650. Will this negatively affect the the rear's ability to rotate? I'm fairly certain Ive got enough shock for it now after Feal fixerated them. thoughts?
In reply to Bobzilla:
What's your camber up front? You need to keep that outside front tire planted first & foremost, but based on that pic I'd tend to agree with upping the front spring rate, and possibly front swaybar size too.
You can always balance out the rotation at the rear to your liking using a combination of increased spring/bar/rebound and/or tires.
You also have to keep the surface in mind too though. What works on concrete may not be fastest on asphalt, and what works where it's smooth may not where it's rough. Pick the one you want to be fastest on & setup for it, then figure out what you can/are willing to change for other sites.
Concrete (especially Lincoln) is my concern. I'm running a tic over 3* of front negative camber. I can easily change spring rates up front, out back is another story. Basically, what I have in the rear is what I have. The rears are basically 680's with an 18mm bar added to the factory torsion beam. REbound in hte rear is all the way up and it's not easily adjusted.
In reply to Bobzilla:
Can the rears be revalved? Slightly less sticky tires(maybe just an old pair previously on the fronts & w/more runs)? 1-size narrower rear tires? Looking at that pic again, you also have quite a bit of dive, so I do think raising the front spring rates is a good idea.
Do you get PMs through here?
You ever run at Rantoul, IL I've never been to Lincoln, but I know a lot of people hit Rantoul before nationals.
Vids are coming. PMS I get, also you can email me (bobnjenmiller@tds.net) directly. NEver been to Rantoul, we have Grissom (Peru) where I will be spending a lot of time at these coming weeks. Fronts have already been revalved and work great, in fact I'm able to actually get something from the knob now!
To adjust the rears, the rear shock has to come clear off the car, then you disassemble the top portion to get to the adjuster, make the adjustment, put the shock back together and then reinstall. Not exactly ideal. So I've just set it full stiff and make adjustments with tire pressures. So far that's worked as the car rotates well without hte snap oversteer I have had in the past.
Day 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCsn7D49YWs
Day 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6h16Hx2APg
Audio is crappy, but we hit rev limiter 4 times on Saturday's course. That's now 68mph. In an STF car.
Bobzilla wrote:
Also... considering stepping up the front spring rate. Sitting at ~550 front springs and thinking about a 650. Will this negatively affect the the rear's ability to rotate? I'm fairly certain Ive got enough shock for it now after Feal fixerated them. thoughts?
As much as you're rolling over, I'd bet that stiffer front springs add traction up front, making the rear more likely to break free. That was what I experienced when I went from 550 to 700s up front.
OK... time to shop for some new springs.
Next question is.... 650 or 700? car is still 2800lbs and is still a DD.
I DD on 700/450 in a 2250lb car. Edit: 100 miles daily. Over the HRBT which sucks.
Its not the fronts that are uncomfortable(Konis 8610 inserts), its the rears(Kyb AGX meant for a Focus). Good valving goes a long way.
Go 700s.
Would 650 or 700 potentially be useful in the rear in the future? I'd consider that too.
The problem is hte shape of the rears. They're ~5" at the top and ~3.5" at the bottom and are a wierd length. Stupid Koreans. I've though about running a smaller spring inside the bigger spring and run a double spring. But the rear is already a 680 and there's an added rear sway bar to the torsion beam. Add to that and I don't think the rear shocks could handle much more.
Ah ok... I wasn't sure if the rear used the same size coils as front or not... I'm able to take fronts to back or visa versa on mine which is nice... unless I want to run the same spring rate all around(which I have been doing with 700/700), I can swap one end with the other to make a big change in balance.
Personally I think once I add tabs to my strut housings(or lower control arms... for a lower motion ratio) I'll reconnect the front bar and entertain the idea of lowering my rate a bit.
I'm only running about -2.1deg of camber right now up front, I do need some more, but not a whole lot. The 700s alone up front work great for keeping it flat. Mathematically it's about the same as 550s + stock front sway bar body-roll wise.
If you think the 700s may exceed the useful part of the shock's valving I'd probably err on the safer side and run 650s... but if the shocks are good for it, definitely try the 700s.
FWIW with high spring rates, if you disconnect the sway bar it makes it a TON more comfortable for daily driving(you could disconnect or remove one end link to make it more liveable day to day is what I'm getting at). When the rates are high PLUS a sway bar... it makes the car take uneven bumps/etc at a retarded^2 type of rate.
Removing my rear bar makes a notable difference for me.
sO, a pair of new 700lb springs are on a fed ex truck in the NW Indy area with my name on them. Header going back on and hte tires are getting flipped this week as well. Have to see how this works.
I'm curious how your camber adjustment at the event doesn't effect toe.
In reply to kevlarcorolla:
The camber plates are slotted to tilt the top of the strut to compensate. So it's not JUST toe, it also (slightly) affects Caster.
But if the strut is moved at the top and the pivot is the lower ball joint with the tie rod attachment at some point in between like every vehicle I can think of then toe has to be effected.
I play with camber plates a fair bit,with a rear steer rack adding camber means substancial toe in afterwards and thats not helping front grip at all.
Just trying to get my head around your set-up.
THat's the best I can explain it. HAving it on the alignment rack when I was at the dealer as well as checking and rechecking my own plates show the same thing. 2+* makes no change in toe.... at the plate. WE checked a few different settings and it wasn't until we were over 5 (total, 1.5 on hte slots and 3.5 on hte plate) that there was a change and even then it was less than a 1/4" total toe change.
