R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

The question of oil analysis has been haunting me a bit. I thought about it when I did the oil change recently and now I'm wondering if it would have shown me that the bolts were about to go. Just enough coolant to tip me off that things were about to explode.
I'll certainly be analyzing all oil going forward no matter what engine ends up in here. I didn't catch a clean sample so the oil mixed with the 1/2 quart that was in the bottom of my drain pan so I'd be a little cautious about making any real decisions about the health of the engine based on what they saw.
Unless you guys can convince me that there is value in it if course.

In reply to mazdeuce:

Wouldn't it still tell you if there's any bearing material present, and thus the health of the bottom end?

mazdeuce wrote: The question of oil analysis has been haunting me a bit. I thought about it when I did the oil change recently and now I'm wondering if it would have shown me that the bolts were about to go. Just enough coolant to tip me off that things were about to explode. I'll certainly be analyzing all oil going forward no matter what engine ends up in here. I didn't catch a clean sample so the oil mixed with the 1/2 quart that was in the bottom of my drain pan so I'd be a little cautious about making any real decisions about the health of the engine based on what they saw. Unless you guys can convince me that there is value in it if course.

I thought the game was to send the entire oil filter to these guys so they can have a sniff of what is circulating in the engine?

Wow, what a poorly designed bolt. What moron puts stress intensifiers that close together on a head bolt?...

So I echo again, does Brabus sell maybe a set of cams for this motor? what could be cooler than a lumpy german v8...

In reply to Mad_Ratel:

I DO have to pull the cams......and if wouldn't be any harder to put different ones back.......

The only oil analysis I've used is Blackstone where I send in a sample in a bottle, I've never sent a filter to anyplace. Let me check and see if I have any Blackstone bottles sitting around, I can decant some oil into one and decide what the results mean. I still worry a little about cross contamination from the pan, but I suppose I can decide if that's an issue when I get the results back.

My MB NA guy is asking what dealer you took it to so he can look up the contact for you.

Mercedes-Benz of the Woodlands

Thanks RBS. I hugely appreciate it.

To paraphrase the great Cliff Clavin, while we all live vicariously through you and all of your victories, we also feel vicarious pain when you suffer a setback. This one hurts me to a surprising degree.

While the GRM thing to suggest would be "Drop an LSx into it!", I would have been mighty tempted to ask the dealer how much they would have given me for the carcass in trade for the loaner.

I know, not cool, but...

That being said, I look forward to see you winning again.

From the very begining, when one German guy said to another German guy "you know, the 63 will fit in there" this van hasn't made sense. It's a true exotic existing outside the bounds of logic. I knew that when I bought it and I'm continuing to work with that mentality.

Having said that, there was a logic to this purchase. I thought I had a handle on the maintenance needs of these cars and was willing to fork over for them. In exchange for that I bought what I think is a highly collectable car at the bottom of it's depreciation that also happens to be the absolute pinnacle of a kid hauler that I get to enjoy like no other parent in the car rider line at school. Drive it for five years and when Deucekid#2 starts college downsize the fleet and use the money as sort of a "bonus" college fund outside their regular college funds. This is how I sold the purchase to Mrs. Deuce. I still think it was a solid plan.
So I'm hanging out for a bit waiting to see if there is a better contact at MB than the 1-800 number. Time is less of a concern now. I'm still hoping MB will swoop in and say something like "we'll give you a motor if you pay the rest" because they love these as much as I do and it makes someone happy at the corporate level that one of the original 44 is being used as intended. Fingers crossed. In the mean time the second flush of oil came out looking like oil and I think I have the engine stabilized as much as I can. I hope this step was unnecessary, but I can't just leave the motor to corrode from the inside out. The van is parked with notes reminding me where I am. I'm even mentally preparing for the prospect of monumental numbers of parts by bagging and zip tieing things so they don't get lost. I suspect organization will be key to making things go smoothly.

Curious, hopefully I'm not offending here but any reasoning why no purchase of a 3rd party warranty?

I can see extreme expense or that no service provider would cover the vehicle. Basing this on the "internet knowledge/logic" that no late model German or exotic vehicle should be owned out of its original warranty period

Having enjoyed reading your previous posts it you seem to do a pretty good job planning in advance and generally being risk averse.

I think given the low incidence of the failure the risk was acceptable, but the mileage was a bit high for me not to be nervous, hindsight is 20/20.

From a purely philosophical point of view, warranties exist to make money for the warranty company. If you deny all extra warranty coverage over your lifetime you 'should' come out ahead.

On this specific case, a 12 month warranty was offered at $8k. That was almost 1/4 the cost of the van for 1 year of coverage. If I believed that to be a legitimate value I'd be insane to buy it. What I believed (and I did look into it) was that any of the major engine issues should have flushed themselves out by 80k miles. The overwhelming majority of the 63 engine vehicles that made it that far are unlikely to fail. So what I really did was take a calculated risk based on the available informstion. A dealer maintained car that was probably going to survive the next year (and it did go 12k miles trouble free) without worry. I could afford to save the $8k and basically self insure through time with the money instead. Honestly, anything short of complete engine failure could be taken care of with $8k.
What are the chances.

mazdeuce wrote: I still think it was a solid plan.

No plan survives contact with the enemy.

Gotcha, I knew you went through the logic and math. I agree 8k is a steep price for the coverage. I would have made the same choice you did. Looking forward to what comes!

It is interesting how several folks I've found myself in discussions with about the issue have a difficult time with the concept of self-insuring a risk. It must be a business mindset. If you need certainty and are risk averse, I suppose its valuable to have the risk covered from dollar 1. But that's such an unnecessary expense. A $0 deductible on comp coverage makes all the sense in the world since its cheap coverage - a $250 collision deductible is often really expensive when you compare it to a $1,000 deductible that you are hoping not to incur at all. If I hit someone, well, that's the risk I chose to take then - no sense in second-guessing it.

I just changed insurers for the first time in 10 years and turned down a well-advertised deductible rewards program - you get so much off of your deductible for every year of no claim. The premium to enroll in that program is 20% less than the annual value of the deductible reward. So you are guaranteed to pay 80% of the deductible amount each year to not have the chance of incurring the 100%. Yet it seems to be really popular.

There is also the fact that although I did use the van as my daily, it's not my only option. If MB says they want to put a motor in but it will take six months to get it, fine, sounds cool. A lot of people don't have the slack in their lives to both buy something stupid and have it break. There is a very good reason my truck was my daily driver for 8 years and 150k miles. I didn't like it, but I HAD to have something that was going to work every day, cost me nothing but gas, and be easily replaceable in case of an accident. It's really only been these last couple of years that I've been able to own cars with increasing levels of risk.

mazdeuce wrote: A lot of people don't have the slack in their lives to both buy something stupid and have it break. There is a very good reason my truck was my daily driver for 8 years and 150k miles. I didn't like it, but I HAD to have something that was going to work every day, cost me nothing but gas, and be easily replaceable in case of an accident. It's really only been these last couple of years that I've been able to own cars with increasing levels of risk.

And THAT is the entire reason there is a CR-V sitting in the garage, my risk level is gone.

Hey Deuce is the block the nicasel or whatever MB calls their silicone impregnated blocks. I found a couple of places, When I was thinking about rebuilding my S8 motor, that can recondition the cylinders to rebuild the motor. Last quote I got was $2500 for the recondition. Seemed a little rich for my blood then researched even more and found out where to get the special hone and paste that you use to do the job. I may still have the info if that happens to be the route you need to go or at least head you in the right direction.

mazdeuce - love the thread and nice journey so far. I've been researching this and came across this in a Google search.

If your engine is rebuildable, the best option I came across was to build the engine and with all the engine work, might as well add on the supercharger and built transmission.

1) Weistec Engine build - keep factory 11.3:1 compression, piston tops, piston skirts, rods, ring set, sleeving of block, lifter, crank sprocket, timing chain, oil pump, machining to cylinders, polishing crank, etc... = $24,316,85 (subtract $6,000 if you do the labor).

2) Weistec 722.9 bullet proof transmission = $6,489 (subtract $700 if you do the labor) + core exchange.

3) Weistec M156 Stage 1 Supercharger, spark plugs, air filters, mass air flow sensors, etc. = $12,374.96 (subtract $1,500 if you do the labor).

You'd be looking at a reliable 640 hp / 560 ft-lbs at the crank on 91 octane.

Either way, the built engine is less than the dealership option. If you need a contact at Weistec, let me know.

Weistec is one of the places I need to call if I rebuild. They seem to be the source for the good ARP sourced head bolts that are better even than the updated MB pieces. If I get to the rebuild phase then I'll spend some time considering my options.
Future value of the car should be considered too. Putting in a used motor in my garage may well trim $5k or so off the value of the van if I'm honest when selling. Having a beast of a motor built by someone like Weistec who is widely respected can add value to the van. I can pretty easily see where there could be a $10k difference in value depending on the route I take.

Call me uneducated about the ways of these things, but if this was a sbf, sbc, etc i'd bet that the advice would be to drain it, flush oil through it to get rid of any coolant, replace the head gaskets and bolts and button her back up.

Granted an oversimplification and it will take some time with the complexities and space constraints, but why not just do that (and replace the guides and other things you previously listed)?

I know there are options and factors to consider, and you're in no rush.... Just seems that this would be quick, comprehensive, least expensive, not difficult, and keep the orig. motor with nothing done to it that could lower value in anyone's eyes.

In reply to jfryjfry:

First I want to wait for MB USA to chat with me. A dealer installed factory new motor would have a lot of advantages. If that doesn't work out, then I need to figure out if rods are bent. The assumption at MB is that this failure causes bent rods in a majority of cases. If the rods look OK then I'll do exactly what you suggest and see if this engine can't be saved as is with gaskets and bolts and what not. As you suggest, it really is just an engine.

Do you think there would be any value to trying a compression test?