R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

NOHOME wrote: Remind me again of the consequences of this attachment point failing?

It holds the fuel rail down, so......firey death for the whole family?

The adapter idea is brilliant, I'll have to figure out if there is enough material or not.

mazdeuce wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Remind me again of the consequences of this attachment point failing?

It holds the fuel rail down, so......firey death for the whole family? The adapter idea is brilliant, I'll have to figure out if there is enough material or not.

Is the only hold down or are there others? Is anything actually putting stress on the junction?

In reply to Ian F:

That's that big question. The fuel rail is one big U shaped piece of stainless tubing. Each branch of the U is held down on each end with a single bolt. Without this bolt there the injectors are being held in with O ring tension and whatever strength is in the fuel rail and the one bolt at the other end. It seems like fire is inevitable, but maybe not? The bolt basically fell out when I put a wrench on it.

The field trip today was shortened by a couple inches of rain falling all at once. The kids went back to their class to watch a movie and I went home to change into dry clothes and work on the van for a bit.
New seals for the crank pulley, the chain idler, and the water passage that goes from the pump on one side to the block on the other. I think I need to pick up a new torque wrench before assembly, any suggestions?

In reply to mazdeuce:

I can't provide a specific brand, but I'd suggest researching the required torque specs for your engine so you'll know what range you need. I borrowed a sweet Snap-on torque wrench from Aeromoto for the Vette, but it only went down to 30lb-ft, so I ended up using my cheapie for many of the fasteners other than the main & head bolts.

In reply to Pete Gossett:

I know I need two. One for the little bolts, one for the big ones. Not sure I want to go Snap On, but I feel like it's time to upgrade from my 15 year old Craftsman that I've used to torque a billion lug nuts over the years. The easiest option is the Cobalt ones at Lowe's, at lest for the small one.

GRM did an article on torque wrenches a few years ago and found the Harbor Freight units performed quite well.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Pete Gossett: I know I need two. One for the little bolts, one for the big ones. Not sure I want to go Snap On, but I feel like it's time to upgrade from my 15 year old Craftsman that I've used to torque a billion lug nuts over the years. The easiest option is the Cobalt ones at Lowe's, at lest for the small one.

I really like my Kobalt. I can't say much for Lowe's as a company, but their tools are solid.

Last 1/2" torque wrench I bought was branded CDI through Amazon. Nice wrench, mid $ when compared to Snap-On, spendy when compared to Harbor Freight.

Apparently they are owned by Snap-On now.

I have a Husky set with the cal sheets from the big orange box store. They seem to work pretty well and are generally pretty accurate.

I had several HF ones and they wouldn't click from time to time which has resulted in more than one fractured or sheared off bolt. Generally located somewhere that I really didn't want it to happen and after I checked to see if they would click on a bolt that holds my vise down.

I bought a Harbor Freight one, but it had so many sharp edges and pointy corners that I didn't even want it in my toolbox and I returned it.

mazdeuce wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Remind me again of the consequences of this attachment point failing?

It holds the fuel rail down, so......firey death for the whole family? The adapter idea is brilliant, I'll have to figure out if there is enough material or not.

Ah...but then again, gotta figure you got the family connections to deal with just such an emergency...

I feel compelled to add something to the conversation I've been enjoying for some time now, as I've been lurking and checking back near daily since stumbling across the msn article some time back.

Talking about repairing the intake, I did a little google research for a Houston area shop which does Magnesium repair/welding, www.jdwheelsrepair.com I can't say anything about them as I live in the Seattle area, although the web reviews seem encouraging.

Also, for the torque wrench, I got an ACDelco 1/2" Digital Torque Adapter from amazon, it allows you to use all your normal wrenches, can't speak to long term accuracy, but it's done the trick for me so far.

Thanks for the enjoyable reading and happy to see continued progress.

NOHOME wrote:

mazdeuce wrote:

NOHOME wrote: Remind me again of the consequences of this attachment point failing?

It holds the fuel rail down, so......firey death for the whole family? The adapter idea is brilliant, I'll have to figure out if there is enough material or not.

Ah...but then again, gotta figure you got the family connections to deal with just such an emergency...

I emailed your intake pics to ROLLO WHEEL. The welder took a look and said they sold their mag weld system on ebay. I will check boat propeller and aircraft repair paces Wed.

When I worked for bosch we had these REALLY nice torque wrenches on teh assembly line. ranging from 5 inch/lbs up to 200 ft/lbs

The next time I visited that assembly line, they were all gone. (I'm betting some tech walked em out at the end of day). In there place were digital electric computer torque wrenches. Every part that went through had the torque numbers for each bolt recorded to the serial and stored for a decade just in case there was a warranty. The machine automatically adjusted the torque wrench for each bolt as they moved through the torquing process. Pretty spiffy to watch.

A friend of mine just bought one of the electronic torque adapters on Amazon. It's a small block that can go between a breaker bar and a socket to be an instant, highly accurate, electronic torque wrench. But it's best trick is to use a bench vise instead of the socket, and it becomes a device for checking regular mechanical torque wrench accuracy.

How bad could your wrench be, you ask?

Most Harbor Freight torque wrenches new are typically 10 ft-lbs off, on the side which would make you overtighten, and crack, the fastener.

They run $50+ bucks, but it's way less than what they'd charge for commercial calibration on one wrench.

mazdeuce wrote: In reply to Ian F: That's that big question. The fuel rail is one big U shaped piece of stainless tubing. Each branch of the U is held down on each end with a single bolt. Without this bolt there the injectors are being held in with O ring tension and whatever strength is in the fuel rail and the one bolt at the other end. It seems like fire is inevitable, but maybe not? The bolt basically fell out when I put a wrench on it.

Hmm... I'd probably need to see a picture of the entire assembly in place. My gut says there isn't likely a lot of stress on the boss, but that said - something - caused it to break/strip.

Torque wrench - if I were to buy a new one for this purpose, I'd probably get a decent one from thetoolwarehouse like this one for 1/2" range and like this one for lower range and ONLY use it for this type of work. Keep your old wrench for less critical things like lug nuts/bolts.

Micrometer vs. Split-beam. The former is generally more accurate (typically +/- 2% or less). The latter less accurate (up to 4%) but more durable, which makes them popular for wheel/tire shop work where they can get banged around a bit.

Woody wrote: A friend of mine just bought one of the electronic torque adapters on Amazon. It's a small block that can go between a breaker bar and a socket to be an instant, highly accurate, electronic torque wrench. But it's best trick is to use a bench vise instead of the socket, and it becomes a device for checking regular mechanical torque wrench accuracy. How bad could your wrench be, you ask? Most Harbor Freight torque wrenches new are typically 10 ft-lbs off, on the side which would make you overtighten, and crack, the fastener. They run $50+ bucks, but it's way less than what they'd charge for commercial calibration on one wrench.

I am sure the production tolerances are wildly variable, but I had my harbor freight one checked in the instrument shop at work and it was as accurate as the snap-on ones that they normally check.

The cheapskate in me just wont let go of this for what it is. Since I see a bolt hole in the vicinity, perhaps a bridge would work? You could carve it out of a piece of titanium if it would make you feel better?

You could also bridge over from the other threaded boss that I see on the left hand side of the picture.

A friend who I trust about such issues recommended that I buy 3/8 and 1/2 torque wrenches from CDI and just use them for proper work. They are ordered and should be here Friday.

Mrs. Deuce has semi-ordered me to just buy a new intake manifold. I do like a woman who takes charge, but since it's basically the last part to put on the motor before it goes back in, I have a few days to think about it.

NOHOME is brilliant and I will start carrying Dynamite to extinguish engine fires. This habit should serve me well as I start shopping for used Lamborghinis.

For a torque wrench I also decided I needed a new one for my G8 engine assembly. I went with a 3/8" Klutch brand from Northern Tool. It is +/-3% which and was cheap enough. It seems to be pretty good and the engine ran without blowing up.

On the subject of calibration pricing. It's not that expensive if you want to get a click type calibrated. I just looked it up and it's about 50 dollars a wrench for 3.5 in-oz to 600 ft-lbs wrenches. Or a bit less than 1/2 for what I paid for both wrenches if I had both done at once. Electronic are about 120 to 150 dollars.

The boxes for the aircraft I used to maintain had three Snap-On click type wrenches that we were required, contractually by the Air Force, to have calibrated every two years. I used those way more heavily than I use the ones in my garage (the ones in my garage also get used on aircraft from time to time and I'm 100% comfortable with it.) As long as you're not using it as a breaker bar (ie: 25% over torque) and resetting them to the lowest setting for storage I'd just buy the best set with Calibration records you can afford and every few years have them calibrated.

I have had real good luck with Sturtevant Richmont brand wrenches. Middle of the road price wise. I have three personally, and buy them for use in the shop at work. Their click adjustable, well made, and best of all if you send them out for calibration, they can be adjusted. Most of the lower end wrenches can not be adjusted so if they go out of adjustment they are junk or have to know how far off they are every time you set it.

The0retical wrote: As long as you're not using it as a breaker bar (ie: 25% over torque) and resetting them to the lowest setting for storage...

Can you elaborate on this? Not the breaker bar part, the resetting to lowest for storage. Is that a bad thing for torque wrenches? I usually set my click-type one back to about 20% of its max, which is as I recall the lowest marking on the wrench.

In reply to NorseDave:

Sure.

Click type torque wrenches use a spring mechanism to push a ball into a detent. This is set by twisting the handle to the desired torque setting which compresses the spring placing more force on the ball in the detent. When the twisting load torque wrench reaches the specified torque value it the ball pops out of the detent and the head over centers give you the click. The issue is that when the spring is left in a compressed position it can weaken over time or "take a set." Ideally, you'll want to set the wrench to where the spring is at its lowest calibrated stress setting to prevent it that type of wear.

Setting it below the minimum setting can have the same result as now you are extending the spring beyond the calibrated distance and leaving it so it can also "take a set" in the wrong position. This is why people will correct you when you say "zero the torque wrench" rather than "set to its lowest setting."

*edit: by "take a set" I mean that torque wrenches rely on a known linear range for the installed spring. If the spring sits under compression or expansion for too long, or after it is cycled through years of use, it will affect that linear range generally by remaining compressed or expanding just a slight bit. Eventually it starts to introduce error into your torque values. It doesn't happen right away but it does build up over time. Hence the need to check calibration from time to time.

The over torque is the recommendation by several calibration labs. Basically, if you apply way more torque than the wrench is rated for it's again possible to weaken the spring or damage the detent mechanism. In that situation they simply recommend it be checked for calibration or damage.

That's pretty much what we were taught by the FAA. Since my ability to be employed revolved around following their practices that's what I did.