After getting over my Mustang SVO affliction, I got into Alfa Romeo. I'm the suffering owner of a '74 GTV, '84 GTV6 and a couple of 164s. This weekend I picked up the "Distraction" a '74 Berlina, which is a small, lightweight, 4-door sedan. It's the first Alfa that I consider a blank canvas, "fuorilegge" (outlaw) build. I have amassed a considerable number of parts over the last few years, including 4 2.5 liter V6 engines, a 3.0 and a 3.0 24 valve. I also run around with former racing partners that have substantial stocks of Miata parts. So, I'm thinking that I'll marry a 2.5 V6 to either a Miata or T5 5 speed, and will try and stick a Miata IRS on back. If that doesn't come to fruition, perhaps a torque arm ala the old Mustang days.
Anyhow, here is the raw material:
Oh yes. My love for these little sedans is great. I've almost got my wife convinced they're one of the more beautiful sedans out there too. Can't wait to tune in on this one.
Where's home, horsewidower?
In reply to horsewidower :
New mistress?
You can do a lot with the rear end by putting on a panhard rod or watts link, and then just replace the trunion arm with a trailing link. I've autocrossed a car set up like that, and it was awesome. The Alfa set up is not bad to start with, but can easily be improved.
If you really want to put an Alfa V6 in there, a good think to look for is a bell housing from an Alfa 6. They were never imported into the US, but it seems as if the parts can be found.
Another engine option is an Alfa TS engine from a 75, and you can build one of those up to be pretty darned quick. That's pretty much a drop in with a nice power improvement.
In reply to Alfaromeoguy :
New to me. ;)
alfadriver said:
If you really want to put an Alfa V6 in there, a good think to look for is a bell housing from an Alfa 6. They were never imported into the US, but it seems as if the parts can be found.
Interesting, I'll have to see what I can find.
I have played around with a I.r.s. on paper have some ideas
2.2 ecotec power.....perhaps?
02Pilot
SuperDork
11/5/18 7:09 p.m.
I do love the way these little sedans look. If I found one of these (or a Triumph Dolomite) at a reasonable price I'd be hard-pressed to resist.
Upper block, aero crank ( nice ,yes ) and lower block..snd two boot.
The mains are 4 bolt per main..
Alfaromeoguy said:
2.2 ecotec power.....perhaps?
Not much of an improvement for the effort. If it had a turbo, that would be different.
Cool project. I’ve looked for these cars and/or GTV’s over the years and don’t seem to find them when I’m looking. Maybe a good thing, looks like they multiply.
Mine should put out 190 to 200 hp. No turbo
According to C.B.M. motorsport. A stock oem Saab 9.3 with the ecotec turbo makes 245 hp.. with a change of con rods and piston to forged, and fuel injector change,you basically dial in the up that you want up to 500 hp.. The oem ecu is very easy to tune. ......
Turbo a one Alfa 2.0 you get 180 hp. That Alfa Romeo Bonnie cost how much to build? . Custom built mono block clys. Diff. Gearbox.. that engine and tranny cost over 10k, poss. Even more,would that engine work on the street? Not putting the Alfa motor down at all.
With the Alfa Romeo own engine you start at about 115 hp,and about the same tq.. ..ecotec 2.2 start at 155 hp and 155 tq.and a much better hp,tq curve.. add a 2.4 intake manifold with oem 2.2 throttle body, you are at 170 ish hp,and a little more tq than that.. do some head work as I did, you are at 190 hp..take to cbm to finel tune, about 200 to 205 hp, at 10/1 compression
Check out hot rod magazine ' ecotec, the import fighter', again not putting the Alfa Romeo engine down, but getting a twinns spark head and pistons,possibly a block, you have some $$$$ going there,add a custom turbo set up $$$$, add the mono block liner $$$$
To get a turbo set up on a ecotec, strip a 9.3 Saab that carries the 2.0 ecotec engine from the wrecker not much $$.
Update at 5 pm.. was out training on my road bike..trying to stay at 250 miles a week during the winter
In reply to Alfaromeoguy :
CMB motorsport needs to re-engineer their turbo. We made a little more than 200hp on our $2004 challenge car.
And my friend modifies Alfa heads to make over 200hp on a dyno with a single plug head, N/A. Same friend made over 500hp on a turbo 2.0 TS, and propelled a Spider to 232mph.
Between the cost and effort to make 200hp from an Ecotec and putting that powertrain into the car- I think you can easily clear 200hp with an Alfa motor.
The engine in my GTV is should be in the 150hp range, and has been wonderful since we did it 20 years ago. Light porting, cams, and matching SPICA, and it's been dead nuts every time.
VWguyBruce said:
Cool project. I’ve looked for these cars and/or GTV’s over the years and don’t seem to find them when I’m looking. Maybe a good thing, looks like they multiply.
Always Looking For Another.
We almost bought a Berlina twice- once in the mid 90's, but we just got our GTV and had no space. If we did, it could have been a Challenge car- $900 or something like that, Then almost a decade later, we were going to get a Berlina with a TS motor in it and go to a convention. Couldn't go, but some friends of mine got it, and they love it.
I really like the earlier TI body style.
I saw the Besic car at Bonneville. What a beauty.
I would have preferred a Guilia TI, Super, etc, but they weren't really any in my preferred price range.
Yes, they do multiply. I have several more that I'd like to have, but the island of disrepair is out of space.
In reply to horsewidower :
Do we know each other? I think I only missed one or two of the trips to the salt flats.
Ive been part of AROC Detroit for over 25 years, and went to all the conventions between ‘95-07.
When I thought about trying to get my Alfa Romeo spider 2.0 to 200 hp. Cost got in the way. Plus took information to a few engine builders,they all said the same thing. Those massive pop up pistons, very ineffective way to use a combustion chamber. Question why did the twinn spark go to flat top piston? Answer much more effective to produce power.and lighter to boot. Think about it, a flat top piston,during cumbustion, forced all the power straight down
10.5 to 1 Alfa Romeo pop up pistions, the flow of the power goes into the cly walls,loss of power
Perhaps in the 40s to the 60s pop up pistons worked better
But find a engine now days that use that kind of piston. ..leds effective.loss of power to fuel used
Actually, thanks to direct injection, there are a lot more pistons out there that have raised centers to them- much like a diesel.
But the shape of the piston has more to do with the valve angles and the desired compression ratio. And when you go through the physics- it's not the raised top that you find power loss to (the physics still has all of the pressure going down, not inward- since the piston does not change shape)- it's the shape of the combustion that is the problem. The larger the surface area of combustion, the harder it is to get it done quickly without other side effects.
The reason the TS has flat pistons is that the lack of a central spark plug brought the valve angles down, which meant less chamber in the head. It does burn better.
Still, you can make 200hp on a nord engine.
But I'd like to know what engine builders you are talking to- they don't seem to know as much as first glance. The idea that something changed in a nord engine from the 50's and 60's to now that makes them less efficient now is kind of wrong.
Either way, a TS conversion is a lot more cost effective than an engine swap.
In reply to alfadriver :
I was running around with the 911 roadster guys at the time. Given my leaning towards Alfa, I did talk briefly with the Alfa team while it was going through tech. Stunningly beautiful car.
Having worked on 5 Engine Masters Challenge 1st gen Hemi engines, we capably beat more modern designs...although the 3rd gen Hemi ate our lunch. We found that over 12.5 to one, the piston dome impeded additional production of power, our 14 to one pistons didn't make as much. Perhaps we would have found ways around the issue if we had continued in that vein. Time and money, time and money.
Certainly the modern combustion chamber tends to be more efficient, pent roof and 4 valves are a marvelous thing. But, I like fiddling with old things. (now now, no jokes...you know you want to. LOL)
Bob
In reply to horsewidower :
